Stix's Coupe Build - Striped Steel - Page 4 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
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post #91 of 128 (permalink) Old 02-16-2018, 03:13 PM
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IMHO, I always thought the higher the HP, and lighter the vehicle, the less gear (lower numerically) you need. Also the less gears you need to attain higher speeds. Multiple gears are mainly for fuel economy.
Example 2000+hp Racecars user 2 gear powerglides with numerically low gears, and 10,000hp dragsters have no gears, direct drive slip.

Heavy vehicles with low horsepower need higher gear ratios and many gears to multiply the torque and get moving.
Example 18 wheelers, dump trucks etc.


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post #92 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-21-2018, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
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I realize it's been a long time without an update, but I've also been trying to clear out things in the garage and wrap up other projects at the same time.

I did a spur of the moment search on Craigslist for the tire size I wanted and a set popped up from someone with a drift car who couldn't fit the tires in the wheel wells. Worked out for me, because I got all four 295/40/18 Nitto NT555 G2's for less than the cost of two.
I also made use of eBay's recent pre-spring 20% off code for a purchase from a US company to get some wheels. Turns out one vendor was also having a sale at the same time and the cost of the wheels dropped dramatically with the stacked discounts. Add in that they upgraded to a nicer set when their inventory list had an error and I ended up a happy camper! 18x10.5 ET22, square setup in anticipation of the AWD working out.



As a result, this also means that I expect to sell the 18" Halibrand style set I got when I placed my order for the Coupe. With AWD, trying to match front and rear tire diameters with different widths and not being able to rotate them means it's unlikely I'll ever use them. If anyone is interested, let me know or I'll be posting it up in the classified section at some point.


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post #93 of 128 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Figured I was past due for an update. I'm working on a mix of the theoretical and the practical by focusing on the rear suspension changes required to lift the rear differential up to a height that matches the transfer case output flange and have everything above the bottom of the frame.

First up was 'compensating' for the height increase by trying out the Mustang GT axles (which I showed earlier being 5" longer each side). I figured if I'm to re-do some of the suspension that I might as well lower the CV angles and one easy way to do that is widen the rear track. Who said we'd need spacers to get rid of the wheel gap?



This also means I'll get to try out some fiberglass molding again. Weee!
Here's a side view that also includes the front differential I had to open up to verify the internals. For anyone who cares, the Ford Explorer and Ranger in the early 2000's used Dana 35 internals with a Ford requested case. Many places report the smaller Dana 30 only. Anyway, the body will need to be a bit wider when all is done.


Finally, I've been contemplating ideas on how to grab all the dimensions I want from the rear spindles as well as possible ones I want to use in the front. After chatting with some coworkers, one strong front runner (that didn't include using a laser scanner or FaroArm which require permission and a business case at work) was to use a center finder combined with a DRO on my mill. Since I don't have a DRO and I wanted to get started right away, a much lower tech solution filled in to get rough dimensions.
Check out my overturned book shelf and a combination square ruler!


I'll pull some dimensions from the existing frame and A-arms to get the nominal caster / camber / effective spring and wheel rates as a baseline and then design new geometry with those in mind. I'm still debating the 'easy' direct coil-over setup or a pushrod and bellcrank design. Hopefully more on that on or before next weekend.

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post #94 of 128 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 10:54 PM
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This build is setting yet another standard!

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #95 of 128 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks John! There are tons of awesome builds on here but I'm going far enough astray few things are relevant to most builds. Unless you mean another standard of crazy

-----

I made some really good progress doing a few coordinate transformations to get the spindles in the correct locations and match up with the 'baseline' Coupe rear suspension. Everything is at least really close without disassembling all the components to verify individually.

The top is the as-designed-by-Factory-Five layout.
The middle is the wider version using the Mustang GT axles, raising the diff to match the rest of the custom drivetrain, and using the same chassis mounting locations for the a-arms by effectively extending their span. I also assumed using the upper spring mounting location for a bellcrank to make things easier. Easier always being relative...
Bottom is the overlay of the two.


Initial findings:
1/2. I have an error on the spindle face location for my setup, it needs pulled inboard some (too wide of track)
1. The axle angle shouldn't be an issue
2. The angles between the a-arms and the axles is going to cause the axle CV's to probably bottom out because as the car compresses in height (bumps, any aero, cornering, etc), the arms and axles are not close to parallel.
3. The upper spring mounting locations may actually work well for a good rising-rate spring setup and if I get fully adjustable dampers they can up and easy to access without crawling under the car
4. I haven't looked at wheel rates, stock suspension travel estimates, or anything else yet.

Fun times ahead!

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post #96 of 128 (permalink) Old 04-25-2018, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Big milestone started/accomplished today: I placed the order for the transmission which is the last major component necessary!

I don't remember if I mentioned it earlier, but this will be a Corvette based T56 case with upgraded TR6060 internals, blueprinted assembly, and an adapter to bolt to the transfer case. It has to be a forward shift location instead of a mid-shift or tail shift. George Kreppein from Rockland Standard Gear will be building the unit for me and also works on the Tranzilla version of the T56.



Once everything is built, shipped, and delivered, I'll be able to get to work on finalizing the powertrain and make some real progress!!

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post #97 of 128 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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While the transmission is still a work in progress and RS Gear is waiting for Tremec to send them some additional gearsets to give the ratios I requested, I went looking to see what I might do for the interior and alternatives to the Kirkey seats that might still allow the even more restrictive space of the wider tunnel and fit my tall and skinny frame.

I lucked out an found a discounted, yet brand new and genuine Bride Gias II seat. I point out genuine because there are replicas all over the place with varying quality standards in the fabrics and stitching and unknown internals. From my reading, some are fine to sit in, some wear out quickly, some look poor on arrival, and none are crash tested. You can get a pair of replicas for half the cost of a single genuine seat. It may be the 'sport' model aka least expensive model of that line, but the only difference is the internal frame is heavier and the back is a metallic painted fiberglass instead of the usual but more expensive Kevlar. It's based on a FIA certified model but has a recline ability. The 'Low Max' setup puts the top of the cushion only about 1.5" off of the very bottom of the seat.

Here it is in the car testing out the recline:


Here is the side by side comparison to the Factory Five option of the Kirkey high-back seats:

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Last edited by q4stix; 05-08-2018 at 05:09 AM.
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post #98 of 128 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 04:15 PM
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Those are really nice seats. I looked at them too, but unfortunately with the gen 2 coupe I didn't think they would fit.
Did you only get the one?

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #99 of 128 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by John Dol View Post
Those are really nice seats. I looked at them too, but unfortunately with the gen 2 coupe I didn't think they would fit.
Did you only get the one?

John
I only bought one to start due to the expense and being unable to sit in it and fit it in the car beforehand. I didn't want to have to find a way to sell two in case they didn't fit because I was worried I'd lose out on a bunch of money finding someone that wanted a pair for $$$.

I might get a fixed bucket Bride seat like the Vios or Zieg for the passenger side since I should be able to find a matching one that is both wider and less expensive.

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post #100 of 128 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Special delivery just arrived!!
Tranzilla Magnum 4x4
2.97 / 2.07 / 1.43 / 1.00 / .74 / .50



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post #101 of 128 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 01:29 AM
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Nice, looks like it means business.

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #102 of 128 (permalink) Old 06-07-2018, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
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Small update but more of making progress on a project to make progress on this project.
As you can see, the engine is clearly [physically] closer to getting installed


I had to move the engine to make access for the Bridgeport mill teardown. I'm making good headway on the head disassembly so next is the turret and the table before I can pull the knee and strip the existing paint before starting to refinish and re-assemble:


Thankfully the head was rebuilt shortly before I bought it but since it was still in use at a machine house before sitting outside under shelter, it does need some cleaning and re-greasing and oiling. The motor, varispeed drive, quill, and spindle all look in really good condition so thankfully my cheap mill can remain low cost to me.


Last but not least, the mill will be first put to use making an adapter plate to the adapter. With the transmission output shaft being uncut as requested, there's about a 1.5" gap. I also don't know if I'll stick with the recommended Borg Warner 4404 or switch to the 4412 which has a much different mounting pattern. A takeout unit with a 31 spline input shaft will be crossing the US to let me check it all out.


I'm looking forward to a little less planning and more cutting chips, test fitting, and welding in the future.

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post #103 of 128 (permalink) Old 06-28-2018, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Not too much has changed (as seems to be the typical), but the Bridgeport disassembly continues. I now have the turret off so all that's left now is the bed and knee before I can start stripping paint.

On the drivetrain side, I received my Borg Warner 4412 transfer case. It seems to be one of the few 31 spline inputs that is full time AWD with no hi and low gearing. The other is the BW 4404 seen in the previous post.


Unlike the 4404, the 4412 is shorter after the chain, but longer in front of the chain. Instead of having to add another spacer like I thought I'd need, I'll need to shorten the existing adapter by 0.6" instead. The mounting holes are also a larger PCD which makes the mounting flange on the adapter too small too. Work, but not terrible.
I've kept the critical dimensions of all three transfer cases I've tried (4404, 4411, and 4412) which shows I'll have the most seat room with 4411 but only .5" more than the 4412 which has the correct input splines. Meaning no custom billet input shaft required. Yay!


I hope to pick up a Harbor Freight scissor transmission jack next weekend to lift the entire engine block, bellhousing, transmission, adapter, and transfer case into the car to figure out the new motor mount location as well as the final drivetrain height. Once the Bridgeport is back together, I'll use that and my lathe to modify the adapter.

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post #104 of 128 (permalink) Old 06-29-2018, 12:48 AM
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fascinating to watch your progress... thanks for the posts.. Chris

Coupe 65 #646

Ordered - 28 May, 2014.
Delivery, Sydney - 18 August.
Fabrication and recoating complete - 25 October
Assembly commenced -27 October
Engine installed - 18 December 2014
Engine running - October 2015
First gokart - December 2015

TR6060, LS3 motor, IRS, Willwood brake upgrade, three channel ABS, 17'' replica rims, sat nav / stereo, Motec PDM and keypad, AC, adjustable steering column,
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post #105 of 128 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
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Still seems like not much has been happening on my end, but I've been busy with a new role at work which lets me be in more of a shop environment so I'm still getting my hands on work fix during the day/week. Still an engineer, but now I also get to help other engineers test ideas and improvements they have in a more rapid environment.

As a result, the car only now has the block, bellhousing, etc bolted together to get a more solid idea of the length and rotation of the transfer case to front diff driveshaft. I've got an idea of how I'll keep everything in alignment while modifying the adapter but I'm running that by some people in the shop to see if there's something better they can think of. Once that's done I'll make a quick coupling from the rear output of the transfer case to the rear diff and have one giant bolted assembly. Something tells me this won't drop in easily!


I've also been spending a lot more time while in the garage working on the Bridgeport. I've got it completely disassembled (meaning parts galore taking up floor space) and mostly stripped of paint, filler, and oil. Here's a 3 frame progression of the state of it. Original rusty and oily state, then needle scaled, and now Zep Purple cleaning and degreasing in the works.


Up next is primer and paint for the mill so I can re-assemble and start making the new engine, trans, etc. mounts
For the car the next step is modifying the adapter. Hopefully with a bit more speed this month!

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post #106 of 128 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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Kicking off the weekend with a bit of tire, wheel, and widebody eye candy
I'm still kind of blown away by the size and these are only 295/40R18.


No spacers here! Just 2015 Mustang GT axles and future custom A-arms


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post #107 of 128 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 01:05 AM
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So what are you going to do? Fender flares or factory five arms? I've never heard of using stock axels......
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post #108 of 128 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 01:12 AM
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Wow, 4wd? This is a big project! Good luck!
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post #109 of 128 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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So what are you going to do? Fender flares or factory five arms? I've never heard of using stock axels......
The Factory Five arms work perfectly with their provided axles but I'm looking to use the Mustang GT axles which are 5" longer on each side. I'll see if I can use the same hardpoints on the chassis with arms I design and build. I'm also planning to glass in fender flares.

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post #110 of 128 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 02:12 PM
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Very cool, why stop at all wheel drive when you can go wider too
The regular car already looks low and wide, I can only imagine what this is going to look like.

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #111 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
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Back with an update. Work and everything else have been busy so I'm happy to report there is still progress being made on the car. Right now it just happens to be off of the car.

I'm getting close to wrapping up the transmission to transfer case adapter modifications needed. To sum it up, I'm using a different transfer case (Borg Warner 4412) than what the original adapter was designed for (BW4404) and in a different position which is further complicated by the fact that the 4412 has a different input shaft length and depth.

First step was to jump in with both feet and cut the adapter in half. Second was to modify it, and third will be to get it back in one piece.

I did some dumpster diving to get some scrap pieces of thick steel plate. The plates had 1/2" holes in it all over but I was able to work around that and create a fixture to hold the input and output flanges concentric to each other. Essentially making two tight tolerance round plates welded to a tube to hold the top and bottom relative to each other. You can see the two halfs and the tool fixture in this picture:


On the back side of the output flange I used the lathe to cut a groove for the transfer case alignment ring but only 0.1" deep so not to weaken the flange too much. The groove isn't square and the bottom is more of a \__/ shape so stress concentrations shouldn't be too high (I hope). This way I can also use the BW4404 as a fall-back option since both can be held concentric to the transmission output shaft. You can also see the places I used a dry-erase marker as an indicator to wear off where the groove hit before seating the transfer case and needed machined more. Low cost tech for the win!


Here's the fixture in the output flange for reference:


Here's the input flange half added with the fixture aligning everything and at the right height. I also ground off the paint in a few areas for an electrical ground path while welding depending on where it's clamped:


Finally a side view with the shortened parts. The butt joint on the center tube should minimize flange distortion and I can still skim the input flange face to make sure everything is parallel. I added a chamfer to each part on the suggestion of a coworker to help with welding penetration since this will be reacting the output torque:


Next is to weld it up and then test fit the adapter. After that is to try to get the whole mockup (engine block to transfer case) in the car to check that fit!

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post #112 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 02:51 PM
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Wow great work. Tough to clock the holes correctly before welding i imagine. When your done you will have a really unique car among unique cars!

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post #113 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-19-2018, 06:18 PM
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That stance looks great! Take care on track days, I had body rubbing issues on my fenders under load (but of course am only at a 3.5 inch frame height back there)
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post #114 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-19-2018, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Wow great work. Tough to clock the holes correctly before welding i imagine. When your done you will have a really unique car among unique cars!
Thankfully there are only two holes pre-drilled and that PCD is for a different transfer case. I clocked everything back they way it was based on the center tube rolled seam but for my application I'll set the clocking of the transfer case and then drill the holes to match.

Quote:
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That stance looks great! Take care on track days, I had body rubbing issues on my fenders under load (but of course am only at a 3.5 inch frame height back there)
Thanks! If I keep it this wide then I'll be making custom flares to fit over everything. Appreciate the reminder to check for suspension travel and not just static look
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post #115 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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We're shortened, welded, and test fit!

Seems like we got good penetration on the weld area and pretty good color distribution showing the heated regions. We skipped around similar to tightening lug nuts to minimize any distortion too.


Here's it back together at the proper length and ready to test fit next. This should happen sometime over the Christmas to New Year's break and then I can figure out how much to raise the rear differential and see how to run the forward driveshaft


I'm also still working on my mill cleaning and restoration. Amazing how much grease, oil, etc. keeps coming out of the castings but I'm getting close to wrapped up smelling Zep Purple in the garage and house for a while

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post #116 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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Mockup Install Update!

A friend of mine was able to come over and help me get the bare engine block, transmission, and adapter into the chassis so I could start getting a better idea of the actual space and the number of additional modifications required to make this crazy idea actually work.


While this looks straightforward, the output shaft sticking out so far meant we had to pull things back forward to slide the transfer case on. You might be able to see that I cut to additional tubes on the tunnel near where the shifter location is because of interference (mid and rear shift are not options on the AWD transmission because of the rear adapter)


Then, like all good things I try, there were more interferences. I handed my friend the recip saw and said go at it but he was a bit hesitant. After I showed him I already chopped that particular tube and it just had to be even shorter he had a go. This was the X member on the floor that also had the driver's seat belt tab on the tunnel side. That'll be sure to be added back.


More cutting and grinding occurred on the transfer case and frame:


Tada! I'm in a seat and in the car next to the giant drivetrain!


One pic from the front:


One from the side:


It's not ideal yet, but I'll work on that some.

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post #117 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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Also, I got my first real TIG welding lesson. I've done stick, used a torch to weld, braze, and cut, and done MIG but not really TIG. I'm keeping it too cold and using too little filler, but apparently my general technique is pretty good for a self described beginner:

This will all come in handy when I fix the frame, make new motor, transmission, and differential mounts, and then eventually the new suspension arms and exhaust headers.

Fun times!

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post #118 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 12:57 PM
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Great progress on this unconventional build. Looking forward to more

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #119 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 01:56 PM
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Wow!

Great craftmanship! Stunning piece of work on the Gen 3!

2006 Stock Challenge Car. I'm removing parts, not adding them!
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post #120 of 128 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Small update:
I've been trying to figure out how to best raise the differential to match the rest of the raised driveline (due to the transfer case) and came up with a solid coupler for mockup purposes. They had a scrap piece of 2" thick, 5x5" steel used elsewhere that was getting thrown out so I snagged it.

I made a quick sketch showing the dimensions of the flanges I have (see earlier when I replaced the differential pinion flange from the 2015+ Mustang GT CV style flange to the F150 style flat flange meant for a U-joint bolting to it.


A mockup in 3d helped me figure out how I'd do everything so I could reference it on the lathe and fit the bolts in (barely). FYI, the pinion flanges are threaded so I wanted to make use of them instead of drilling them out and threading the coupler or having the treads misaligned and causing a gap between the flanges and coupler


Complete after a long time of running the lathe at some pretty slow speeds to cut all the steel


Not sure when I'll get it in, but that's my next step.

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