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post #31 of 130 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Since there's been a lot of bits and pieces of information, I decided to go and compile what I can find. *It does look like Ford changed the firing order on the F-150 Coyote only for the 2015+ model year back to the old modular V8 firing order*

To help anyone in the future, I may create a separate thread in the Coyote forum or guide of what parts are common or what changed between models and years since this has been an issue to track down.
Pulled from Ford's owner manuals:


Here are the camshaft part numbers for the Mustang GT and F-150 for the various model years:

This is why Ford says the control pack does not work with the 2015+ F-150 engine without modification.


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post #32 of 130 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Not too much progress, but an update nonetheless.
I've recently received a used alternator and starter I found on the cheap ($75 each).
In addition, I now have a Aeromotive Phantom Flex kit to use inside the stock fuel tank, the hoses and fittings I'll need for first start, as well as the fuel filter and pressure regulator.

Tip from a master tech mechanic: with a 1/4" wrench it's nearly impossible to over tighten fittings. With that, here's my 1" socket 1/2" drive to 3/8" reducer to 1/4" reducer for the aluminum O-ring AN fittings


The fuel tank is currently on backorder at LMR so any starting is held for the moment.


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post #33 of 130 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 06:34 AM Thread Starter
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Fueling fun below. Hopefully it'll give people extra ideas or a reference for later.

Since the kits are designed around the stock 87-93 fuel tanks, I decided that I wanted to start with that and potentially upgrade to a fuel cell if I got into tracking the car, wanted a larger capacity, or had starvation issues. This put me on the path of a Aeromotive Phantom Flex kit install since I also wanted the ability to run E85 and have enough flow for my build should I get bored with a NA motor and wanted to go forced induction.

It seemed almost a shame to cut right into a new tank, but I had to cut a 3-1/4" hole for the pump. This is almost the same size as the outer diameter of the stock fuel sender lock ring which posed a problem using the recommended hole saw. It would 'rock' side to side and then catch so I gave up on it after nicking the tank finish a few times. I drilled a bunch of radial holes and then did a quick pass around with a cutoff tool and here's what I got.


You can see the 'sump' in the picture above through the hole, but here's a clear view:


Since it was spot welded in place and I didn't think I could get it out even if I drilled out the welds, I worked around it. First, here's what I was trying to fit.


You can see that it's really designed for a continuously flat section of the tank but our stock tank is either really shallow or has both the welded sump and an angled section. To get this to fit, I decided to leave out the soft plastic base, bend the hanger to look similar to the stock sending unit, and then cut the foam to conform to the tank bottom and with the sump. This is how everything looked before installing it:


An inside view of the foam pressed against the tank bottom and slit to work with the sump


I'm hoping this will be a good compromise between the low cost of the stock tank vs. a fuel cell but take care of any starvation issues, fuel aeration with a return setup, and be able to use in a fuel cell upgrade later on with the soft plastic base without having to re-buy parts of the Phantom Flex kit.
All installed:

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post #34 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
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Talking First start!!

After fixing a few leaks with a couple -8AN Summit brand fittings (no leaks with their -6AN fittings though), I got the pressure regulator to hold at 55psi with atmospheric reference

I rigged up some of the connections, added two stubby exhaust pipes to hold the left and right O2 sensors, and hooked up the battery.

In the AEM software, I had the firing order updated for the 2015 F150 instead of the standard configuration 2011-2014 Mustang GT. It was rather painless once I got to the right menu...and boy are there a lot of menus and tabs. I also dropped the rev limited to 5000 from the 7400 default just to make sure with no rotating mass (flexplate only) it didn't spin too fast.

First start!!!
Well, starting on a pallet but no fuel leaks while running, a stable initial idle, and a pretty good sound all things considered.

It ran really lean at 17:1 to 18:1 because I had the VVT disabled and the VE tables were off from no intake and no real exhaust, but I'm impressed it ran so well first try and open loop.

Question maybe TMScrogins can answer: I blipped the throttle and the throttle body responded immediately and you can hear the rev in the video, but the pedal stopped responding right after that. I tried to see if there was a limit exceeded or something but I'm scratching my head what caused that. This happened on a second start doing a blip too.

Now that the fueling and engine electronics are confirmed working, time to tear down everything and add some 'go fast' parts!

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post #35 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by q4stix View Post
After fixing a few leaks with a couple -8AN Summit brand fittings (no leaks with their -6AN fittings though), I got the pressure regulator to hold at 55psi with atmospheric reference

I rigged up some of the connections, added two stubby exhaust pipes to hold the left and right O2 sensors, and hooked up the battery.

In the AEM software, I had the firing order updated for the 2015 F150 instead of the standard configuration 2011-2014 Mustang GT. It was rather painless once I got to the right menu...and boy are there a lot of menus and tabs. I also dropped the rev limited to 5000 from the 7400 default just to make sure with no rotating mass (flexplate only) it didn't spin too fast.

First start!!!
Well, starting on a pallet but no fuel leaks while running, a stable initial idle, and a pretty good sound all things considered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ0f3PiiSFY

It ran really lean at 17:1 to 18:1 because I had the VVT disabled and the VE tables were off from no intake and no real exhaust, but I'm impressed it ran so well first try and open loop.

Question maybe TMScrogins can answer: I blipped the throttle and the throttle body responded immediately and you can hear the rev in the video, but the pedal stopped responding right after that. I tried to see if there was a limit exceeded or something but I'm scratching my head what caused that. This happened on a second start doing a blip too.

Now that the fueling and engine electronics are confirmed working, time to tear down everything and add some 'go fast' parts!
q4stix,

Your throttle going dead after a blip or two is expected. You must run the DBW calibration before the ECU knows/learns the min and max currents. What is happening is the DBW is going into limp mode. You can run the calibration and it will correct this.

I have a video I posted on my Infinity thread that will walk you through this. My video is broken into 2 parts. For now, you just need to follow the Part 1 video.

If you can't find the link, let me know and I'll post it here.

Nice job on firing the engine up with the Infinity.
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post #36 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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I know I did that previously because I saw the position was flipped initially (reading WOT with no pedal movement). Once I ran that, it was followed by the throttle body auto calibration. Depressing the pedal showed correctly on the gauges on my laptop as well as matched the throttle body movement (after ignition on but before starting the motor).

I'll watch your videos and try re-running the calibration this weekend and see how thing change. Don't want to be the neighbor that starts the engine at 10:45pm on a week day haha.

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post #37 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 03:55 PM
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DBW error

q4stix,

Also, to be sure our theory is correct that the DBW motor is going into limp mode, go to the DBW tab and watch the DBW1_TPSA [%] and DBW1_TPSB [%] channels in the text grid and compare the two. They should remain close when you blip the throttle. If they don't then it will trigger the DBW1_Error_Fatal channel. There should be a dedicated grid on the tab for this Error channel. When operating properly it will always be 0. If a tracking error is triggered this will change to 1.

Also, the calibration procedure will usually resolve these types of errors. However, there may a knee in either the DBW1_TPSA or DBW1_TPSB which is causing these two to not quite track to each other. If this is the case then you'll need to tune the DBW PIDs and that should certainly resolve this issue. You'll want to do that anyway and it will be one less piece to tune on later. I cover this in my "Part 2" video. Here are the videos for convenience.

Part 1 - DBW/Throttle Body Calibration

Part 2 - DBW Bias % table & PID tuning

Again, here to help if you need it.

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post #38 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome! Thanks for the great info. I'll certainly check that out.

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post #39 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 03:53 AM
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Congrats on the start!!

pretty impressive stuff!

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Kit Purchased - 10/13/14
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post #40 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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@TMScrogins : I think I got it resolved for now. I'm not sure if that was the underlying cause or not since they seemed to track nearly identically, but after a quick re-calibration it hasn't repeated itself. I also changed the logging to start even when the VSS reads 0, so I won't have to actively think to save a log before turning off the ignition (which is what I did the last time the throttle stopped working)

@SeattleDad : Now my plan starts with the 3rd unique firing order I told you about earlier I think I'll also be going forged pistons and rods just so I don't have to rebalance my new crank again. 8000+ RPM seems iffy on the stock F150 rod


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post #41 of 130 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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*Internal discussion*
Go forged, it's cool. No, I don't need the expense. What if I boost later? Unlikely. Do you want to rebalance everything or do this twice? Umm....

*clicks purchase*
Oops


I've been in contact with Perpetual Balance near me in Arlington, WA, and once I get my harmonic balancer I'll be ready to go. The owner is incredibly easy to talk with (at least for me as an engineer) and walked me through each step he'll take when I visited a few weeks back. He took just over an hour of his time showing me how to weigh rods, his checklists and weight sheets, the balancers he uses, etc, but wouldn't accept a dime when I offered to compensate him for his time.

I'll try to get pictures of the process which I expect will at least let one cat out of the bag with my build

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post #42 of 130 (permalink) Old 04-24-2017, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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The fit check has started and to my relief, the crank doesn't have any interference!
It seems someone squished my coyote crank flat

Coyodoo?

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Last edited by q4stix; 04-25-2017 at 09:42 PM. Reason: fix picture link
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post #43 of 130 (permalink) Old 04-25-2017, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Whoops, picture link fixed so I can show off the crankshaft
Who needs the A52XS after all?

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post #44 of 130 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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After a long delay of life taking up time and Ford being coy with their balancing information on the GT350 crank, I was finally able to make some more progress.

Phrases like "how did you get that?", "I'll have to talk with upper management", "They're stonewalling us", etc. all came from those I reached out to for information. After a fair amount of persistence, I was finally provided the values I needed for proper balancing. The big secret is that there isn't a real secret but everywhere I've mentioned what I'm doing, I'm called crazy so I guess there isn't a big market for the information. Anyway, now to pictures...

Here the bob weights are already measured and clamped to the crank and we put on the ATI balancer which would be needed to offset some of the flywheel and clutch component weight later on. He already hand balanced all of the pistons and rods (big and small ends) before I arrived to match their weights.


This is Mark. Mark is awesome! He runs Perpetual Balance in Arlington, WA and was a huge help telling me what issues we might run into along the way, how to prepare for them, examples of what other people have done (choosing components that affect things later, are too cheap and heavy and require tungsten inserts, dual clutch issues, etc). He's professional, is willing to talk once he know's you're not wasting his time, and was great to work with. I'd HIGHLY recommend him to anyone in the Washington area. On top of that, he let me watch each step, take pictures, and ask things along the way which is not something he would usually do for customers (they just drop stuff off and pick it up once complete). Having said that, he did mention various one-off projects where customers were more involved. Back to the pictures... this is the first drilling to remove weight


Once the crank was balanced individually, we added the flywheel and re-balanced by only modifying the flywheel. Same for adding in the components for the twin disk clutch (minus the friction disks since they rest on the transmission input shaft).


Skipping to the end, you can see Mark cleans as he goes, protects the crank and components by covering the journals while he drills and uses a vacuum, then visual inspects and re-greases the supports before re-measuring. This is the last drill operation after we attached the pressure plate and balanced that. Since there was so little imbalance at the front, he only drilled a single dimple at the end so he didn't go too far early on and have to 'chase' the imbalance later.


Here's an example of the outputs from the balance machine. We used an older Italian made machine instead of his newer one for ease of access putting on and taking off components as well as allowing us to weld on the pressure plate while still on the machine. The newer one didn't allow that but ended up giving the same final values. What you see is front and rear imbalance, the angle (out of 100, instead of out of 360 degrees), and the gram*inch imbalance. This particular image was after our third spin with all the components on. It took a small bead of filler metal on the pressure plate, another spin, and the dimple on the front mentioned above followed by a final check spin to be complete from here.


All in all, the results were something less than 3.5 gram*inches imbalance on the crank itself when finished and only 1.4 gram*inches front and rear for the entire rotating assembly with flywheel, mid plate for the clutch, and the pressure plate! Considering Nascar aims for under 6 gram*inches, I consider this a win!



Now I have some more Infinity and cam phaser issues to think about and try to resolve, but then it will be on to either the kit order or the engine tear down.

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post #45 of 130 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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I just did a thing...

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post #46 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-14-2017, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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I did a local pickup and delivery before my kit delivery since I've had a mill on my 'want list' for a while and not just for the car. I was put in contact with a friend of a friend of a coworker and score a really great deal on a Bridgeport aka Mr. B. Portly for my garage. It was an old CNC setup that was surplussed which came with most of the handles and dials to convert it back to a manual mill. The head was recently rebuilt and it has ball-screws on all 3 axes so I can convert it back to NC easily at a later date without that additional expense.

With lots of road construction around, my buddy wanted to put it in the bed of his truck instead of it bouncing around on a trailer so we got a little creative. Nothing like some good ingenuity and mechanical advantage of a high lifting pallet jack

Our lifting setup.


At the 40"+ height of the bed of the stock height F-350 4x4


On 4x6's to lead into the truck


Delrin rods to roll the pallet which made it fairly easy to move; ratchet straps prevented it from rolling back off or into the front of the bed


All loaded and ready to drive!


Mr. B Portly's new home


The guy selling it was so confused when we didn't show up with a trailer. After, one comment we got was "Holy sketch town Batman!" but the reality was that everything was pretty stable and we didn't have much worry about it falling.

Not bad for $600!!

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post #47 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-15-2017, 12:50 AM
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I just did a thing...
Congrats on this, somehow it got by me initially.

Quite the project on getting the mill over to your garage. What are you intending to use it for?

John

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First start Sept. 18 2013
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post #48 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-15-2017, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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I had access to a few industrial mills, lathes, etc. when I was in college donated by LeTourneau Technologies so I've been wanting the same since I left college (sidebar, RG LeTourneau and his company supplied 70% of the earthmoving equipment used during WWII and had a fascinating autobiography)

I've got some suspension changes in mind for the coupe as well as some other things in work that will all need custom parts and assemblies. Add in my other personal projects, etc. and it's a great excuse to have one. Since the cost was so low and I'm used to working with them, I know it'll save me long term and let me work at my own pace.

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post #49 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-19-2017, 01:22 PM
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Wow, coming along great....subscribed
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post #50 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-08-2017, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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One more day before my kit is considered 'factory complete'!! I'm getting excited. Stewart loads on or before Sept. 15th so I should know soon when it'll deliver to my house

Also, huge thank you to Factory Five for letting me get in on the new sale since I haven't taken delivery yet!! Just like edwardb, I'll be getting a set of the Halibrand style 18x9 and 18x11 wheels.

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post #51 of 130 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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With word from Factory Five that my coupe is/was on the ground ready to go on a truck and an email out to Stewart to ask for updated information (shipping was delayed), I'm nearly positive that Mike Everson's picture taken last week shows my coupe. I only had the cutouts marked so of the three in his pictures, that means the one with the arrow would be mine. Come on delivery date, excitement is building!

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post #52 of 130 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 12:32 AM
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Great news, I bet you can't hardly wait! X-mas will be early at your house!

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post #53 of 130 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 05:51 PM
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With word from Factory Five that my coupe is/was on the ground ready to go on a truck and an email out to Stewart to ask for updated information (shipping was delayed), I'm nearly positive that Mike Everson's picture taken last week shows my coupe. I only had the cutouts marked so of the three in his pictures, that means the one with the arrow would be mine. Come on delivery date, excitement is building!
I think we might be on the same truck! AHHH, I can't wait. Shipping was delayed 3 weeks but it left on Friday. Give Jolene at Stewart a call if you haven't heard anything, I know exactly how you're feeling.
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post #54 of 130 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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I think we might be on the same truck! AHHH, I can't wait. Shipping was delayed 3 weeks but it left on Friday. Give Jolene at Stewart a call if you haven't heard anything, I know exactly how you're feeling.
That'd be cool! Have you heard a delivery date for yours yet? I emailed Jolene on Friday but haven't heard anything back yet and she's usually pretty quick to respond.
My factory complete date was Sept. 9th and with shipping that was scheduled for Sept. 15th, this has been a six+ week lesson in patience haha.

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post #55 of 130 (permalink) Old 10-31-2017, 01:56 AM
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I spoke to the driver on Saturday but he wasn't able to give me an estimate yet. He said probably between 7 and 10 days. I'd try calling Jolene tomorrow, she's been pretty helpful, even with my poor attempt at patience.
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post #56 of 130 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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After many, many shipping delays, it's finally here! Woohoo!

Even though I live in a cul-de-sac, the driver was able to make it in, do a 10+ point turn, and back right up to my driveway.


As soon as he pulled in it started to rain, but after 30 min or so and by the time he was ready to hoist up the car, the rain stopped. It was time to fly!


The unloading went smoothly and I was happy with the process at my house with Stewart Transport. I can honestly say that I was disappointed with them not conveying how many shipping delays there were and the fact that I had to be the one calling to hear they'd have a truck there the next week only to call two weeks later and get told the same thing. In the end I'd still recommend them, but I wish they would have been more proactive with their communication and telling me info instead of me having to call every two weeks after the stated Sept. 15 pickup date just to get an update. Enough of that...

Now inventory begins and then I can start looking at the changes I already have in mind to measure for feasibility. I'll need pull the body off and figure out where to put it for a while. I'm ready to get started!

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post #57 of 130 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 06:01 PM
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Congrats! I agree completely with your take on Stewart; in the end it worked out but it was frustrating.

Good luck with the inventory (I'm still working through mine) and I'm looking forward to following your build.
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post #58 of 130 (permalink) Old 11-14-2017, 04:20 AM
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Hope you can sleep tonight...

I hung mine for 2 years from the garage rafters. Take a look at this link.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/511030...7618473363105/
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post #59 of 130 (permalink) Old 11-14-2017, 09:59 PM
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Congrats.. enjoy the build.. After the initial enthusiasm wears a bit it will take perseverance and commitment to get all the way there.. Look forward to your build pics..

Coupe 65 #646

Ordered - 28 May, 2014.
Delivery, Sydney - 18 August.
Fabrication and recoating complete - 25 October
Assembly commenced -27 October
Engine installed - 18 December 2014
Engine running - October 2015
First gokart - December 2015

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post #60 of 130 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 05:32 AM Thread Starter
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Not a whole lot of progress at this point, but inventory is basically complete and I'm not missing anything that will prevent me from getting started.
I've got my donor 2015 Mustang GT performance pack IRS disassembled and since I want to be like @edwardb and his attention to detail, I'm following the roadster idea to POR-15 and clear coat the cast iron differential:


Up next will be the rear spindle modifications required for the IRS and I get to start making the body buck so I can take the body off and remove the aluminum panels.

Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder
q4stix is online now  
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