Surfdog57's Gen 3 (#12) build journal. - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
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post #1 of 386 (permalink) Old 06-05-2015, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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Surfdog57's Gen 3 (#12) build journal.

Hi Ya'all I thought I'd start a thread to document my build. My kit is scheduled to be complete at the end of June. This will be an Occasional daily driver but mostly a track car! (I daily drive a family truckster when Ive got the kids in tow, and my 370Z when I'm solo, so this ride is mostly for summer cruising and the track (High Plains Raceway in Denver)
So here we go! Here are the options I have picked.

-Complete coupe Kit (yay!)
-shipping crate
-powder coat chassis
-FFR vintage gauges
-coyote 3v headers
-Roadster Coyote straight tubes
-body cutouts
-Comp aluminum race seats
-heat/AC
-wiper kit
-MKII floormats
-Carpet
-Battery cutout
-17" Halibrand replica wheels
-roadster Coyote installation kit
-IRS components
-12.19 IRS Wilwood brakes (I'm working to mod the order to slotted only, not drilled)

My plan is to drop in a Ford 5.0 (302) Coyote motor from Ford racing, paired to a Tremek TKO or T-600. The back end will host a Quaife LSD.



I have poked around a little bit and am suspecting to hit a few snags.

-I suspect it might be a bit of a challenge fitting my steering column around the coyote motor. (I don't think the kit was built with Coyote motor in mind)

-I will have to build up a custom drive shaft (no biggie)

-I foresee fitment challenges with the header/exhaust.

-I have to keep my wife from vetoing the project at every stage.(I plan to use the forgiveness better than permission technique primarily)

Wish me luck folks. My kids and I are super exited to get this project off the launchpad.

Here are some questions I need answered.

-Will a Ford Racing 5.0L 4V DOHC Aluminator XS Crate Engine fit under the hood (with that tall intake manifold up there) or am I limited to a "Ford Racing 5.0L 4V DOHC Aluminator Crate Engine"

-What gear ratios and specific Tranny would be best (Assuming that I'll probably be limited to the smaller 420 HP motor) (I'm thinking a T-600 but don't know about gear ratios etc so am starting from square one)

-How stiff is steering, and should I put in an electric power assist kit? Is it difficult to "retrofit" one if I decide later its needed, or should I do it on the initial build.

-should I do roll up windows or stick with scoops and sliders (remember I'll have AC) I lean toward roll-ups (despite the weight) primarily from a security standpoint (I will occasionally have to lock the car and leave it unattended I would guess)

Thanks in advance for any input you all generously provide. I look forward to bumping into you around the community.

-Cliff

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post #2 of 386 (permalink) Old 06-05-2015, 11:15 PM
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Congrats on the project! I look forward to watching go build it. I'll let others chime in on your questions but I am interested in seeing what you have in mind for roll up windows. That would be a nice option!

jeff


FFR#0611CP, Complete Coupe Kit, IRS with 3.55 gears, Ford Racing 363Z Stroker @473HP, Fast Sportsman EFI, TKO 600 with mid shift, Wilwood Brakes, FFR 17 inch Halibrand replicas, Sumitomo HTR Z P275/40ZR-17 front and P315/35ZR-17 rear.

Delivered- 08/17/2013
First Start- 11/19/2014
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post #3 of 386 (permalink) Old 06-06-2015, 12:56 AM
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I have poked around a little bit and am suspecting to hit a few snags.

-I suspect it might be a bit of a challenge fitting my steering column around the coyote motor. (I don't think the kit was built with Coyote motor in mind)

-I will have to build up a custom drive shaft (no biggie)

-I foresee fitment challenges with the header/exhaust.

-I have to keep my wife from vetoing the project at every stage.(I plan to use the forgiveness better than permission technique primarily)

Wish me luck folks. My kids and I are super exited to get this project off the launchpad.

Here are some questions I need answered.

-Will a Ford Racing 5.0L 4V DOHC Aluminator XS Crate Engine fit under the hood (with that tall intake manifold up there) or am I limited to a "Ford Racing 5.0L 4V DOHC Aluminator Crate Engine"

-What gear ratios and specific Tranny would be best (Assuming that I'll probably be limited to the smaller 420 HP motor) (I'm thinking a T-600 but don't know about gear ratios etc so am starting from square one)

-How stiff is steering, and should I put in an electric power assist kit? Is it difficult to "retrofit" one if I decide later its needed, or should I do it on the initial build.

-should I do roll up windows or stick with scoops and sliders (remember I'll have AC) I lean toward roll-ups (despite the weight) primarily from a security standpoint (I will occasionally have to lock the car and leave it unattended I would guess)

Thanks in advance for any input you all generously provide. I look forward to bumping into you around the community.

-Cliff[/QUOTE]

Congrats and good luck Cliff.
Forgiveness is always the best policy.
Its fantastic that you have the excitement of your kids. What a great life lesson for them.

The steering heaviness is an individual preference. I went with a mildly powered rack by AGR, as I wanted to increase the caster. Its a little heavy but not uncomfortably.

Windows. I kind of like the sliders and scoops (purist). It would be hard for someone the steal it, as I have the steering wheel removed and a hidden battery cut off. You can also make an internal slide lock.

Have fun and enjoy the ride.
Kim

306 Ford Racing with GT40 Heads 340HP mass flo, tremec 3550, 8.8 3.55 3 link, Koni's, I squared elec, P/S, A/C.


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post #4 of 386 (permalink) Old 06-06-2015, 03:47 AM
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Cliff

Congrats on the kit! I bought mine in August 2014, and still building. One thing I did is use the clutch pedal interlock wiring for the starter as a security measure. I didn't use it on the clutch pedal but wired it to a toggle switch hidden up behind the dash. With the switch off the starter will not engage. If you don't know its there it would be difficult to steal the car short of towing it.

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2014 F5 Type 65 Coupe #655, 5.0, 2x4bbl carbs, T5, 4 link 8.8, 3.73 gears, tubular control arms front and rear, disk brakes front and rear, 17 inch Halibrand replica rims with 315 rear and 245 front Mickey Thompson Street Comps, wipers and washers, seat heaters, heat and a/c, Kirkey vintage seats, carpet. Still building.
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post #5 of 386 (permalink) Old 06-06-2015, 05:03 AM
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Why are you going with the shipping crate? You would save money using Stewart. Use the bucks for something fun.
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post #6 of 386 (permalink) Old 06-06-2015, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stebles View Post
Why are you going with the shipping crate? You would save money using Stewart. Use the bucks for something fun.
I'm still building my garage (30x42x12-14 high)out behind the house and am going to run out to FFR with a trailer to pick up my kit. The crate will keep the kit protected on the trailer ride home and out back while I finish erecting the shop.
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post #7 of 386 (permalink) Old 06-06-2015, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a link to my other "project" car. I bought it used and have done quite a bit of modding/tuning on it over the last few years. It also introduced me to the Track (High Plains Raceway in Denver)and has laid down quite a few track days!

Based on that experience I'm very happy to have things like Race seats, 5 point harness, big Wilwood brakes, Full racing cage, Koni coilovers, battery cutoff switch build right into the kit! It means I'll probably be adding a few things like an Oil Cooler, Tow hook, fully adjustable clutch pedal as well but I hope to do some track twsting before I get into all that. I suspect the enging bay might stay a bit cooler in the coupe!

Working/learning on the Z is what really inspired me to start my own "ground up" build! She's a great, super fun in the mountains where I live, and enough of a sleeper that I dont worry about her parked at the airport when I'm out traveling (which is a lot) DD but a bit heavy (and ride comfy) for serious track use. (3400 lbs 400 hp 250 ft lbs Q)

Surfdog's 09 journal - Nissan 370Z Forum

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post #8 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Project back on track

I had a few setbacks and had to put my order on hold last summer, however I am getting back on track with the construction of my shop and am now scheduled to have my upgraded kit (with the new rear IRS setup) delivered in August.

I have revised my build plan to include the new FFR IRS design, and I'm waiting to see if the 5.2"Voodoo" motor with flat crank will become available in a crate! I think it will based on Ford press releases, but will certainly be happy with a coyote style motor built on the newer 5.2 architecture!

At first I was disappointed by my setback on kit delivery, but I think the new rear end and Ford motor advances will be a blessing in disguise.
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post #9 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewh123 View Post
Cliff

Congrats on the kit! I bought mine in August 2014, and still building. One thing I did is use the clutch pedal interlock wiring for the starter as a security measure. I didn't use it on the clutch pedal but wired it to a toggle switch hidden up behind the dash. With the switch off the starter will not engage. If you don't know its there it would be difficult to steal the car short of towing it.

ewh123
Great Idea! I'll consider that.
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post #10 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 02:39 PM
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A 3.27 or 3.08 rear with 400+ hp


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post #11 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE View Post
A 3.27 or 3.08 rear with 400+ hp

I definately have a lot of choices and research to do.

This is going to be a road course racer.

I'm planning to run it at:
Daytona (of course)
Sears Point (Infineon raceway I think its Called now?)
Road Atlanta
High Plains Raceway (My home track here in Denver)
Leguna Seca

I know some guys running classic Corvettes and one good friend with a 1970 Ferrari Daytona, I will no longer be the guy pacing them in a modern ricer! (Though I really do love my track prepped 370Z)

Anyhow I'm building the coupe to be a fast, modern, reliable, track road course racer with classic and timeless good looks. Finding the right balance to give it great good manners and streetability is going to be a long, long, very fun quest!
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post #12 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfDog57 View Post

I definately have a lot of choices and research to do.

This is going to be a road course racer.

I'm planning to run it at:
Daytona (of course)
Sears Point (Infineon raceway I think its Called now?)
Road Atlanta
High Plains Raceway (My home track here in Denver)
Leguna Seca


Anyhow I'm building the coupe to be a fast, modern, reliable, track road course racer with classic and timeless good looks. Finding the right balance to give it great good manners and streetability is going to be a long, long, very fun quest!
In that case post your question here:
Road Racing Discussions - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

My suggestion is for quick street and AutoX not best top end speed.

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post #13 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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In that case post your question here:
Road Racing Discussions - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

My suggestion is for quick street and AutoX not best top end speed.
I agree! Top end speed is not really my goal, but the Daytona WAS designed to give better top end on the longer European tracks of the mid 60s so I don't think Ill have a problem there.. especially with a modern motor.

I have a fair amount of track experience driving a fairly light, fairly overpowered coupe (my 400 hp 370z). I am a looking forward to running a light track car that rewards a good line in the turns but also has enough power to weight to not get out accelerated down half mile straightaways. I am hoping I can get the coupe setup with good manners in the twisties, and a 500 hp voodoo/coyote setup should make it VERY respectable on the straights!

Once I get farther into the build I'll work on:
1. tire size/compound (square 17x9.5 vs staggered?) (275s front and 305s rear maybe)
2. final gear ratio
3. best LSD (I'm leaning toward a Quaife, helical gear style diff)
4. swaybar setup
5. coil over tuning
6. brake balance (I'm leaning toward full manual unassisted brakes) I'll definitely need an adjustable bias valve
7. ride height
8. oil cooler requirements
9. diff cooler requirement (doubtful with a Quife)
10. brake cooling solution
11. clutch/flywheel setup (I prefer lighter flywheels for track but it needs to be drivable on street)
12. clutch pedal tune (I'll probably use a fully adjustable pedal setup)
13. Paint scheme
14. roll up windows vs sliders (I'm leaning toward keeping the scoop/sliders but will need to be able to install some sort of locks.)
15. Dash/engine control setup.
16. battery placement/ spare tire/ weight distribution and balance considerations.

lol there are a lot of exiting decisions coming up here and each one will make big differences at the track. How fun.
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post #14 of 386 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
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After a brief pause the coupe project is back on!

I got wind of the gen 3 coupe just in time to cancel my gen 2 and get on the preorder list for a gen 3

My shop is getting close to completion (just needs some siding and the roof put on)
My S-type gen 3 coupe has a completion date of the the 21st this month.

The new kit includes:
R-type frame (full crash cage in case i blow a turn and hit a wall)
torsion IRS and diff with 3.73 ratio
batt cutout
full high-back race seats
ac/heat (engeenering and price TBD still)
willwoods
side windows (final engeneering and price on these is also still TBD)
all parts FFR makes to make it a track ready beast (and maybe street legal too with luck)
manual steering rack.

for power, Ill be putting in:
A Ford A52XS from ford performance (as soon as they are released hopfully by summer) (580+hp) based on 5.2 coyote motor.
a Tremec T-56
18x9 race rubber (275s square fit for the track) (17 inch replica wheels for street)
dry sump
brake balance kit
fork style race clutch
oil cooler
tranny cooler

I feel like after all this time I'm again starting form square one, but the new gen 3 is better suited to my needs (mostly track) and will likely fit my 6"1' frame better!

Also, (and this is very exiting after so many delays) my willwoods just landed via FedEx. they are 2 part floating rotors so some rotor assembly is required lol. so I guess I'm officially into my build!!!! I expect the semi to show up with rest of kit around the first of February.

now if i can just get Ford performance to hurry up and release that new motor, I'll have all my bits sourced and en route.
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post #15 of 386 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 03:28 AM
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Sounds Great! Were you aware of a Gen 3 live stream build last weekend? You'll probably find it very interesting. It continues next weekend. Here's the link to the channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQG...vf3kj6O2pydK2A

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post #16 of 386 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you! I'll give it a look.
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post #17 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Surfdog57's build journal.

So my kit is scheduled for pick up 11 or 12 Feb!

Also I've ordered:

1. an Aviaid 4 stage dry sump system
2.Quicktime steel sfi bell housing
3. Mcleod mag force clutch with aluminum flywheel hydronic assembly. (Fully adjustable Billet CSC which is pretty sweet)
4. A 11010 tremek T56 magnum 6 speed close ratio tranny. A lot of discussion went into drive ratios assuming 3.73 torsion rear end and 25.6 inch tires (I'm going to start out tracking 18x275s Toyo RR race rubber. The replica wheels (also 18s) don't matter as much for street as they are primarily parade rubber)

Note: the A52XS motor from Ford performance is still a few weeks/months out but the guys there keep promising an eminent release. The motor specs so far are similar to a coyote motor except 8000 rpm (hence the T56 for rpm tolerance) and 450ish torque and 580ish hp. With a dry sump I optimistically hope to tune to 600 hp and a bit more Q. I wont know till we bolt it in what to expect at the wheels but assuming standard tranny loss and altitude penalty (I race mostly in the Rockies 5-10,000 feet.) I'm hoping to put down about 500whp.

Before anybody asks I'm keeping it N/A for longevity, cooling, weight, and legality if my wife succeeds in forcing me to move back to Cali. (Pray for me if that day ever comes)

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post #18 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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I don't know forum rules so I kept my prices off these posts. If your curious ask and I can pm my prices. I've been fortunate to get mostly "shop rates" from all my vendors so far. (I humbly submit that the better rates may come from a bit of enthusiasm in my little racing circle of vendors for this project). It's shaping up to be a cool build.
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post #19 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
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Not exactly a build update but in related news. I just epoxied my shop floor. I used a bit of silicate traction additive. It looks pretty cool. I used clear so you can see my beat up cement floor. (I think colored floors are... well not for me I guess.)

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post #20 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 04:47 PM
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that's going to be a great work space!

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Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
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post #21 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Stewart missed my shipment today. Will pick up next week. I expect a delivery at very end of the month!!
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post #22 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 03:32 AM Thread Starter
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Stewart delivery (and rollup doors install) set for this friday!!

Still no definitive word on my a52xs motor from ford performance... (its the last piece of the build i haven't sourced)
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post #23 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Getting all set up in the shop.

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post #24 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 09:30 PM
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Congratulations on getting all set-up!

That car is just all kinds of sexy, and I know it is going to be a blast to build.

I also see that your car has been Lab tested!

Good luck as you get started, and I look forward to following along.

Regards,

Steve
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post #25 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
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Surfdog57's build journal.

Not that it matters but I just found my Serial number:
F51000012DR

I think that means I'm Gen 3 coupe number 12?? Maybe I'm gen 3 coupe R type number 12. Hard to say.
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post #26 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Minor issues are popping up during unpack/ inventory phase.

The most worrisome is some pretty good dings and cracks in the bodywork. There is a pretty good divot on my rear hatch corner and a fairy serious manufacturer defect on both side window openings.

I think Stewart will cover any repair (probably not necessary as it will be sorted when I prep for prime and paint) on the tail, but the window issue is a bit more serious. Tony at Fac 5 put a note in my "file" that they will cover the cost to repair the windows. I don't know what that will entail yet but I do know after several attempts to make beautiful repairs on surfboards that resin work is not one of my great strengths!!

I'm sure I can find somebody up here who can help me sort out the fix.




BTW Tony at fac 5 was very helpful and offered to send out a new body if needed. I'm sure I can figure out a way to fix it up though.
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post #27 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 04:32 PM
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Wow that's a first. Good to hear they stand behind their product as usual.

Good luck with the fix,

John

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First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #28 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 12:02 AM
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Just be sure the repair guy uses vinylester resin not polyester. I would just get some 3M HSRF and fill from above and clamp it closed,let harden then grind out a little v groove where the crack is and fill that from below. use some tape over the filler to hold it in, when it hardens pull the tape, sand and fill with rage till its smooth.

Coupe #641 started 6/19/14. Levy stage 4 347, Super Alloy T5, FAST EFI, IRS, Willwoods, Fast Freddie's EHPS, Custom Carbon dash. More mods to come I'm sure.
MK 3.1 Roadster #4759 completed 2005, 4.6 sohc,Bullits, Willwoods, ABS, Hydroboost, A dream to drive and auto cross !
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post #29 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MauiKarl View Post
Just be sure the repair guy uses vinylester resin not polyester. I would just get some 3M HSRF and fill from above and clamp it closed,let harden then grind out a little v groove where the crack is and fill that from below. use some tape over the filler to hold it in, when it hardens pull the tape, sand and fill with rage till its smooth.
Thanks! I haven't done much body work but understand fiberglass repair is not too bad... There are a few other dings around the body possibly from shipping i need to patch as well.

I was considering giving my body to a shop to fix this stuff up when I send it out for prime and paint. It will probably wait until I have wired in and fit all the lights and latches etc. I'm still a long way out on that stuff

Ill start looking at youtube to try and get up to speed. Maybe I'll try my hand at this repair just for kicks before I farm it out.

"fill with rage?????" Was that a typo, or is rage a type of filler. (I read it as a negative emotion caused by doing repairs while sanding... lol)

edit: I just looked up Rage body filler... another stupid question self answered...

Last edited by SurfDog57; 03-13-2017 at 10:50 AM.
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post #30 of 386 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 05:27 AM
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Surfdog57, Yes Rage gold to be specific, check out the bodywork forums. BTW I've got a Yellow Lab too👍
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Coupe #641 started 6/19/14. Levy stage 4 347, Super Alloy T5, FAST EFI, IRS, Willwoods, Fast Freddie's EHPS, Custom Carbon dash. More mods to come I'm sure.
MK 3.1 Roadster #4759 completed 2005, 4.6 sohc,Bullits, Willwoods, ABS, Hydroboost, A dream to drive and auto cross !
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