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post #91 of 288 (permalink) Old 02-22-2015, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimS View Post
Hakeem,

Reference that bump steer drawing as your reading this.

Inner mount plane: A plane is an imaginary plane that passes through the pivot points. A good way to think of it is imagine a piece of paper that passes through the inner pivot points of the upper A-arm an the lower A-arm. forming a plane. It looks like a line on a 2 dimensional drawing when looked at from the front. So what you want is to make the inner tie rod pivot point, land on that inner plane OK. Then you want to draw a plane that passes through the ball joints of the A-arms, this will be the outer plane. Ok now draw a line through the top A-arm ball joint and the inner pivot point. Do the same on the lower arm, see where they meet on the drawing, that is the instant center and "No it doesn't need to be in the center of the car". Ok now draw a line from the instant center through the inner tie rod end and keep going until you meet the outer plane line. Where it meets the outer plane line "Is exactly where you want your outer tie rod pivot to be" if you don't want bump steer.

If this doesn't make sense let me know.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Appreciate you posting the pic.

My understanding of the pic and your prior post was to use a laser pointer (or rule) and mark the points on a fixed sheet of cardboard / paper, adjust and recheck the control arms / tie rod, until the planes of each component have been appropriately aligned..?

Chris


Coupe 65 #646

Ordered - 28 May, 2014.
Delivery, Sydney - 18 August.
Fabrication and recoating complete - 25 October
Assembly commenced -27 October
Engine installed - 18 December 2014
Engine running - October 2015
First gokart - December 2015

TR6060, LS3 motor, IRS, Willwood brake upgrade, three channel ABS, 17'' replica rims, sat nav / stereo, Motec PDM and keypad, AC, adjustable steering column,
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post #92 of 288 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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Chris,

I suppose you could do it any way you wanted to. The route I choice was to measure where all the pivot points were with the chassis sitting at ride height then lay it out on CAD. This made it easy to see exactly where I needed to relocate the outer tie rod end to. Once I knew where it needed to be I designed the bracket to put it there.

You actually could just lay it out on a big piece of paper too instead of CAD.

When people use a laser they typically point it forward and watch what it does on the paper out in front of the car as they rise and lower the suspension, then play around with a bump steer kit until they get what they want. I wanted to use stock outer tie rods so I didn't want trial and error, I wanted to know exactly then build the custom bracket and be done.

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post #93 of 288 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimS View Post
Hakeem,

Reference that bump steer drawing as your reading this.

Inner mount plane: A plane is an imaginary plane that passes through the pivot points. A good way to think of it is imagine a piece of paper that passes through the inner pivot points of the upper A-arm an the lower A-arm. forming a plane. It looks like a line on a 2 dimensional drawing when looked at from the front. So what you want is to make the inner tie rod pivot point, land on that inner plane OK. Then you want to draw a plane that passes through the ball joints of the A-arms, this will be the outer plane. Ok now draw a line through the top A-arm ball joint and the inner pivot point. Do the same on the lower arm, see where they meet on the drawing, that is the instant center and "No it doesn't need to be in the center of the car". Ok now draw a line from the instant center through the inner tie rod end and keep going until you meet the outer plane line. Where it meets the outer plane line "Is exactly where you want your outer tie rod pivot to be" if you don't want bump steer.

If this doesn't make sense let me know.

Jim
Thanks Jim That makes sense. one question though. the lower arm should be horizontal or not?

Thanks
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post #94 of 288 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimS View Post
Hakeem,

Reference that bump steer drawing as your reading this.

Inner mount plane: A plane is an imaginary plane that passes through the pivot points. A good way to think of it is imagine a piece of paper that passes through the inner pivot points of the upper A-arm an the lower A-arm. forming a plane. It looks like a line on a 2 dimensional drawing when looked at from the front. So what you want is to make the inner tie rod pivot point, land on that inner plane OK. Then you want to draw a plane that passes through the ball joints of the A-arms, this will be the outer plane. Ok now draw a line through the top A-arm ball joint and the inner pivot point. Do the same on the lower arm, see where they meet on the drawing, that is the instant center and "No it doesn't need to be in the center of the car". Ok now draw a line from the instant center through the inner tie rod end and keep going until you meet the outer plane line. Where it meets the outer plane line "Is exactly where you want your outer tie rod pivot to be" if you don't want bump steer.

If this doesn't make sense let me know.

Jim


I did a few things to get the bump steer corrected.

http://www.mycoupe.ca/modules/wordpress/?p=153


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post #95 of 288 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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The lower control arm doesn't need to be parrallel.


One thing that I would like to add for all the newer owners out there: FFR has changed there: spindles, there steering arm on there spindles, upper A-arm mount, and the location of the rack. All of these things helped SAI, and has most likely gotten rid of bump steer. So the things I did you will most likely not need to do.


Jim
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post #96 of 288 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
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The lower control arm doesn't need to be parrallel.


One thing that I would like to add for all the newer owners out there: FFR has changed there: spindles, there steering arm on there spindles, upper A-arm mount, and the location of the rack. All of these things helped SAI, and has most likely gotten rid of bump steer. So the things I did you will most likely not need to do.


Jim
Thanks for the info. yeah i read this at one of your posts. I just want to see how its done. you never know whats the future hiding
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post #97 of 288 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
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I did a few things to get the bump steer corrected.

Build Log ¬Ľ IFS Complete - myCoupe
Interesting....

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post #98 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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working on Coupe again

Well after taking almost a year off from the coupe due to a house remodel project, I'm finally back on the coupe.

I'm currently working on Glass side windows that will be power windows. I spent quite a bit of time looking it over and trying to figure out the best way to do this and I finally formed a plan and have started down the path. I have one window frame tacked together and I'm working on a jig to hold it steady to perform the final welding. I will post pictures pretty soon. The window will pass between the upper crash bar and lower crash bar. I will be removing the vertical bar crash bar close to the back of the door to allow the window to pass through.

Anyway, I just wanted to update all of you incase you thought I feel off the planet :-)

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post #99 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 02:49 AM
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Great to meet you yesterday Jim and check out your very special Coupe project! Fantastic job! Get that car on the road to completion so we can have three Coupes all in the Grand Ledge area!

Best Regards,

Mike (and Jack)
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post #100 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Mike, Jack,

That was a lot of fun talking with you guys. It's always fun to talk with people that have knowledge of these types of projects and can appreciate the time that goes into them.

I'll do my best to get this project done sooner than later. Life gets in the way sometimes :-)

Take care,

Jim

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post #101 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
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Starting the Power window project :-)

Ok as promised here are some pictures of the project.

This is 1/8" thick by 5/8" x 5/8" Aluminum U-Channel. I have it clamped together with several vise grips. I also have steel U-channel that is welded to the crash bar frame that the Aluminum U is guided and fixed at the proper angles.
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post #102 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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pictures of welding JIG and Frame

More pics:

welding JIG and pictures showing window frame in both directions for welding each side and for the drivers side and passengers side. Also a picture of all the pieces before welding.

Enjoy

Jim
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File Type: jpg P7260198.jpg (191.0 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg P7260201.jpg (191.5 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg P7260202.jpg (194.6 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg P7260204.jpg (189.0 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg P7260209.jpg (224.7 KB, 31 views)
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post #103 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 01:37 AM Thread Starter
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More window pics

Pictures of the Passenger's frame welded up and one with it in place.
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File Type: jpg P7260217.jpg (222.6 KB, 50 views)
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post #104 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 01:44 AM Thread Starter
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Drivers side

Here's a couple with the drivers side being held in place by one of my three side kicks :-) You can also see that the vertical crash bar has been removed toward the rear of the crash bar frame. This lets the window pass in between the top horizontal bar and the bottom.
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File Type: jpg P7270222.jpg (232.7 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg P7270225.jpg (229.5 KB, 53 views)
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post #105 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
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Passenger side with regulator trials

Here are a couple pics with the regulator loosely sitting where it needs to be and clamped to a piece of 1/8" thick press board. The board represents the window. it's starting to come together. There isn't any extra space, you have to be creative, and compromise a little.

enjoy.

Jim
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File Type: jpg P7280234.jpg (220.9 KB, 44 views)
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post #106 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
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power window Video :-)

And now the moment I've been waiting for, and possibly you have too, is to see the window go up and down. Everything is somewhat loose so it wasn't really pretty, but the point is it works, and should work well once everything is mounted properly and a real piece of glass is in it that doesn't bow and the felt/rubber channel is installed in the aluminum channel to guide it better.

Hope you enjoy: https://youtu.be/WQp0b7kF0NU


Jim
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post #107 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 11:08 AM
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Very impressed!!!

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post #108 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 12:08 PM
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hi Jim,

Great work.. nice to finally see what's been described a few times, but never documented to my knowledge.

Im just waiting on a few parts to hopefully arrive at the same outcome. With the addition of a central rail for side impact protection, I've had to make the window frame to slide inside the door frame and not between the rails, which are now mounted to an elongated hinge bracket and spread further apart.

I used the regs from a 01-05 Honda Civic, because there was almost no loss of vertical space (3/4" only) and the window can fully retract.

Look forward to seeing your further updates and congrats again for solving the rubix cube..

Chris
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File Type: jpg 11A193 regulator.jpg (7.2 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_7733.JPG (136.1 KB, 48 views)

Coupe 65 #646

Ordered - 28 May, 2014.
Delivery, Sydney - 18 August.
Fabrication and recoating complete - 25 October
Assembly commenced -27 October
Engine installed - 18 December 2014
Engine running - October 2015
First gokart - December 2015

TR6060, LS3 motor, IRS, Willwood brake upgrade, three channel ABS, 17'' replica rims, sat nav / stereo, Motec PDM and keypad, AC, adjustable steering column,
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post #109 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Chris. It's a tight spot for sure. I have to add another top horizontal bar to the outside of the current one because I removed most of it. Once I get done with the window portion of it I will beef the crash bar back up some how, but there's no point for me to make a massive crash bar before I know where the window and window components will be. I will build up crash support around it, rather than building a robust bar then cutting it all back apart. Also, we don't have the strict standards in Michigan (USA) that you obviously have.

Unfortunately I've come to the realization that these cars are kind of like riding a motorcycle from a side impact stand point, no matter what you do.

I'll keep posting as I make more progress.

Take care,

Jim
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post #110 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 04:15 PM
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Nice Job Jim!!

That looks slick. Don't know if I have the stomach to take another project on my car like that but I sure would like to have that convenience.

John
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Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
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post #111 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 05:52 PM
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Great progress since the weekend! And the mechanism looks like it is going to work very well indeed!

Keep making progress like this and you will be joining Jack and me on the roads of central Michigan before you know it!

Best,

Mike
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post #112 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 08:46 PM
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Great work! I just went through the whole thread for the first time and all I can say is wow!
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post #113 of 288 (permalink) Old 07-31-2016, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
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Side Window progress

Work continued this weekend on the passengers side window. I got the regulator permanently mounted. I had to shorten the moving plate that carries the window up and down. This was a major pain in the butt. There are plastic tabs that guide the moving plate that made it tricky because I had to weld on it. So I would make a small weld then quench in a bucket of water quickly, then repeat until it was done, a very slow process, but successful because it didn't melt the plastic guides. I also started building an inner door frame out of 1/2" square tubing. This will provide a top rail for the inner door panel to clip over and it also provided a place for me to weld brackets on so that I could mount the top of the window regulator's main vertical channel. I also had to shorten up the plates that clamp onto the bottom of the window

Here's some pics
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File Type: jpg P7300240.jpg (217.0 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg P7300241.jpg (215.5 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg P7300244.jpg (161.4 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg P7300245.jpg (222.0 KB, 30 views)

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post #114 of 288 (permalink) Old 08-01-2016, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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More pics

Here is one of the window clamp plate shortened and the other show the door with the fake window down and you can see the top of the inner frame that I built for the inner door panel to latch over the top of it and a frame work for the top of the regulator.

I'm also attaching these links on videos of this project. The first video shows the window operation with just the skeleton door frame and inner door frame:
https://youtu.be/1d4cMa_u4e4


The second video shows the window operation with the door skin in place and shows details of the inner door frame: https://youtu.be/jmRrwsbWCL4
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File Type: jpg P7300247.jpg (223.1 KB, 31 views)
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post #115 of 288 (permalink) Old 08-01-2016, 07:45 AM
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hi Jim,

Where did you get the glass clamps..?

Chris..

Coupe 65 #646

Ordered - 28 May, 2014.
Delivery, Sydney - 18 August.
Fabrication and recoating complete - 25 October
Assembly commenced -27 October
Engine installed - 18 December 2014
Engine running - October 2015
First gokart - December 2015

TR6060, LS3 motor, IRS, Willwood brake upgrade, three channel ABS, 17'' replica rims, sat nav / stereo, Motec PDM and keypad, AC, adjustable steering column,
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post #116 of 288 (permalink) Old 08-01-2016, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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The clamps came with the flat glass regulators.

Here's a link to the regulators: A1 Electric Online Store: Electric Life EL2000-K Flat Glass Power Window Kit


Jim
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post #117 of 288 (permalink) Old 08-01-2016, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
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The clamps came with the flat glass regulators.

Here's a link to the regulators: A1 Electric Online Store: Electric Life EL2000-K Flat Glass Power Window Kit


Jim
thanks Jim.. Look forward to the next update..

Chris

Coupe 65 #646

Ordered - 28 May, 2014.
Delivery, Sydney - 18 August.
Fabrication and recoating complete - 25 October
Assembly commenced -27 October
Engine installed - 18 December 2014
Engine running - October 2015
First gokart - December 2015

TR6060, LS3 motor, IRS, Willwood brake upgrade, three channel ABS, 17'' replica rims, sat nav / stereo, Motec PDM and keypad, AC, adjustable steering column,
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post #118 of 288 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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update on Power windows

Pictures of the drivers side window progress. You can see the aluminum frame has been mounted solid. I got the window regulator lower mount welded in place and checked the operation of the window. I still have to cut out the inner fiber glass panel of the drivers door and build the steel inner door frame. Attached are a couple of pictures and a video link which is easier than lots of pictures and paragraphs of details :-) Enjoy!



Here's the Video: https://youtu.be/tfXktIjYUxc
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File Type: jpg P8050254.jpg (215.1 KB, 50 views)
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post #119 of 288 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 10:45 AM
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thanks Jim.. awesome to see it in action.. the Coupe is definitely not symmetrical..!!

Coupe 65 #646

Ordered - 28 May, 2014.
Delivery, Sydney - 18 August.
Fabrication and recoating complete - 25 October
Assembly commenced -27 October
Engine installed - 18 December 2014
Engine running - October 2015
First gokart - December 2015

TR6060, LS3 motor, IRS, Willwood brake upgrade, three channel ABS, 17'' replica rims, sat nav / stereo, Motec PDM and keypad, AC, adjustable steering column,
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post #120 of 288 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Window update

Saturday morning power window and lock update. Here's some more pictures and Video to show the progress. I was really hope that these posts would start a little dialog. I know there's been around 400 views so there's interest, but I really enjoy the comments or questions. I hope you enjoy the pictures and videos.

Please feel free to comment :-)

Jim

https://youtu.be/BK7fVJlGTzc
https://youtu.be/OJ8SIKh2G4w
https://youtu.be/GeMVrfd4qAo
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File Type: jpg P8070003.jpg (232.4 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg P8120024.jpg (217.8 KB, 37 views)

Jim

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