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Won't Start - Need Advice

4K views 25 replies 11 participants last post by  L A Pick 
#1 ·
Good Saturday, everyone. I drove #6240 for 90 minutes last weekend, parked outside the garage to clean it. Afterward, it will not fire.
Config: 302 crate with Mass-Flo EFI (standard config with Mass-Flo EEC, fuse/relay block, data port). Ron Francis chassis harness.
Fuel pump starts at the turn of the key, but doesn't stop after pressurization as normal. 30 PSI shows at the regulator.
Attaching a timing light shows no flashes, so I assume no spark.
No check engine light
Grounding the diagnostic terminal retuns no codes (by flashing the check engine light)
EEC has power from the relay

With no check-engine light, I suspect the computer died, but it ran fine 30 minutes before, and I did nothing that could have harmed it in between.

Ideas?

Thanks!

Mark
 
#2 ·
The first thing that comes to mind is the TFI module on the distributor. Massflo uses the stock 5.0 efi wiring and distributor.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, Gordon! Is there a test to determine if it indeed is bad?
 
#4 ·
#5 ·
Thanks as always!
 
#7 ·
Yeah, filled up 60 minutes before, and fuel pressure is at 30 PSI
 
#8 ·
I'm not getting 12v to the coil or TFI. Fuse is good. Any ideas?

Starter spins great, so have good 12v supply.
 
#9 ·
Based on the combination of issues controlled by computer I’d say it’s bad. Open and check capacitors for wetness. I have a known good spare unit if you want to borrow.

Phil
 
#11 ·
Good Saturday, everyone. I drove #6240 for 90 minutes last weekend, parked outside the garage to clean it. Afterward, it will not fire.
Config: 302 crate with Mass-Flo EFI (standard config with Mass-Flo EEC, fuse/relay block, data port). Ron Francis chassis harness.
Fuel pump starts at the turn of the key, but doesn't stop after pressurization as normal. 30 PSI shows at the regulator.
Attaching a timing light shows no flashes, so I assume no spark.
No check engine light
Grounding the diagnostic terminal retuns no codes (by flashing the check engine light)
EEC has power from the relay

With no check-engine light, I suspect the computer died, but it ran fine 30 minutes before, and I did nothing that could have harmed it in between.

Ideas?

Thanks!

You said you cleaned it. Did you clean the engine? Any chance you got water into areas not needing it? Such as inside the distributor cap?
 
#12 ·
L A Pick and Railroad

I noticed y'all are in the B'ham area.

my name is Dwight Frye and I live in Florence Al.

We have about 50 members in our club, North Ala Cobra Club. One member lives in Ca. one in Florida, several in Tenn.
A dozen or so in Huntsville.

We keep in touch thought emails. Our group in Florence gets together every Friday night and the bunch in Hvs meet Tuesday for lunch.
Of course there are car shows and cruises we attend.

If you're interested in joining please contact me. No dues, no hats, no t-shirts, just a social club.
We are now planning our Christmas party at Coach's place. We normally have 40 to 50 to attend.

Dwight
 
#14 ·
Thanks,guys. The only water sprayed was to clean the wheels. The body got detailing spray only, so zero chance of water incursion. The wiring harness is from Mass-flo, so doesn't have any connections on the back of the engine.
 
#15 ·
Thanks, Dwight! The system would not let me send a PM, so let me know how to get you my info to add me to the list.

Cheers,

Mark
 
#17 ·
Subscribing. I have virtually the same issue with my mass-flo. No computer check engine light. No one told me to check the TFI module...
 
#18 ·
I have the mass-flo system generation 1 and it would die and I thought it was the TFI unit. It wasn't. Chris? I believe at Mass-flo told me to switch from MSD to Mallory for the distributor and all has been good since. Not sure what the deal was with the distributor but it worked and the car has run fine since.
 
#20 ·
I talked to Chris and he directed me to check the connector to the fuse/relay block, and sure enough, the 12v pin was burned up. I'll post more after my bypass is complete and success confirmed.
 
#21 ·
David, check you're getting 12v to the coil -a super quick and easy test. If not, check the fuse/relay circuit board. Mine has a burned contact I can bypass, but Chris told me there was a problem with the design - it's been refesigned, but it's not backward compatible, and stock of the old design has been exhausted! Fingers crossed!
 
#22 ·
I chased a mass flow problem for many months and finally went to a big Ford air flow meter. I was losing the PIP signal from the distributor which was turning the fuel pump off and I was losing the MAF signal to the ecm. The ignition problem wound up being a ground issue. Ford Racing advised me to tie ECM pins 20, 40 and 60 together and run a separate ground directly to the battery. The MAF issue was the signal converter. The Mass Flow meter is a 12 volt digital signal and the A9L ecm uses a 5 volt analog signal. Apparently the signal converter is no longer serviced so I just got a large ford MAF and tuned accordingly. Consequently I have a nearly new Mass Flow MAF if anyone needs one...
 
#24 ·
This was a bad week to have people waiting for an update. My company was launching the product that they brought me to Alabama from California to help develop. No Cobra time (or forum time) until this morning. Sorry to keep you waiting!

Here are the pics of the bad connection.

Finger Hand Electronics Technology Electronic device
356265


Chris at Mass-Flo said this was caused by vibration making the connection loose over time and building resistance until it became a small heater. I said it was because the connector is undersized for that amount of current (he disagreed - I have enormous respect for his body of knowledge on EFI, but I think he's wrong on this one).

I bypassed the connector by soldering a lead to the back of the board under the damaged connector. I chose this location because it has a very wide trace to solder to. I scraped off the coating - the pad where the pin was originally soldered was damaged (so my joint looks bad, but it isn't!). It's flat against the board because there is only 0.10" or so clearance under the board.

356266


I drilled a hole on the side of the case to route the lead, and crimped a spade terminal.

356267


On the harness side, just by checking to see how much clearance I would have to cut the wire from the connector, the wire broke from the connector on its own. Trimmed the damage, stripped, and crimped...

356268


Buttoned it up, and:
 
#25 ·
Glad you solved the problem, that must have been a sigh of relief...Hopefully others having issues may see this, and save them some grief trying to figure it out.
 
#26 ·
Yeah, since it was caused (in my opinion) by bad design by Dunne-Rite (the subcontractor), I know I will not be the only one... Chris at Mass-Flo was extremely valuable.
 
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