Help!!-Rear cockpit bulkhead doesn't line up - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
Help!!-Rear cockpit bulkhead doesn't line up

So have been working on cockpit Aluminum panels past few weeks.
Man my poor drills are getting a workout.
Few Minor flubs (couple extra holes that go to empty space, drill walked on 2 holes)
but noting that I feel like actually getting new panels to fix, I mean hey its all covered by carpet/hidden right?
Overall going OK
See the status pic

Well that was until Sunday when I installed the rear cockpit panels.
Followed manual steps of U-Joint cover, corner panels outside rear corners,
then went to install the Big rear bulk head and UT-oh not lining up no matter what I do.
Best compromise was having the driver side seems to line up OK with Seat belt holes lines up to the frame tubing & the original FF drilled hole, Panel Gap/alignment looks decent.
But the passenger side is all FUBARed no matter which way I do it.

Posting pics of 4 different arrangements (see next posts), none of which seem good

HELP !!!!!
looking for advise here and I am not even sure getting a replacement (rear passenger corner) panel would fix the problem

See next couple of posts for different arrangement (below is the drivers side)

Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0682.jpg (59.3 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0674.jpg (84.4 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0684.jpg (77.9 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg Driver side OK (3).JPG (171.8 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg Driver side OK (2).JPG (165.9 KB, 32 views)
kenladdude is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
Here are pics of arrangements
1 - seat belt hole aligned with the frame tubing (like Driver side) with corners/sides in clecoed in original locations

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1-Seat belt hole lined up Side pannels clecoed(1).JPG (172.5 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg 1-Seat belt hole lined up Side pannels clecoed(2).JPG (180.0 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 1-Seat belt hole lined up Side pannels clecoed(4).JPG (153.1 KB, 28 views)
kenladdude is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
2 - Moving bulkhead down so flush with floor but then the bottom of seat belt holes are about 1/3-3/8" below the frame tubing
The panel to panel gap is better than #1 here but still not great.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2-On floor to side clecoed(3).JPG (170.7 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 2-On floor to side clecoed(1).JPG (173.0 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 2-On floor to side clecoed(4).JPG (171.4 KB, 20 views)
kenladdude is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
Last ones
3- SB holes still low as in #2 but now unclecoed the corner panel from original position and lined up to original FF drilled hole.
Now the panel to panel gap is OK but the Corner panel is sitting off the floor and the outer corner (of the corner panel) is ~ 1/2" off the frame
& none of the original holes line up.
4- Moved the SB Holes back to lined up with frame (same as #1) & using the FF hole
While the top lines up between the 2 panels & panel to panel gap looks OK, everything else is jacked.
Both panels are off the floor now, no original holes line up outside corner is off frame (like in #3) . . .

I know that using the original FF holes is not always the best course,
but over all they have worked well for the most part as a guide for the rest of the cockpit panels (just some minor trimming so far).
Something just doesn't seem right here, I feel like I am missing something in the process.
I checked the cross tube & it seems to be the same height on Driver & Pass side (at least from the large main tube below it).
Seat belt holes seem to be the same distance from the bend/crease in the bulkhead.
If I need to order a new corner panel and start over that is fine, I just don't see what that would solve as I think I would still end up with issues.
Grr. . . . .

Any help or advise would be much appreciated
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3-On floor to original FF hole (5).JPG (200.8 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 3-On floor to original FF hole (6).JPG (192.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 4a-Seabelt holes lines up FF hole side pannels not celcoed (8).JPG (163.9 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 4-Seabelt holes lines up FF hole side pannels not celcoed (6).JPG (106.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 4-Seabelt holes lines up FF hole side pannels not celcoed (7).JPG (134.1 KB, 16 views)
kenladdude is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 08:46 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Captain
 
edwardb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lake Orion, MI
Posts: 5,723
Hard to follow everything you've posted. But for starters the seat belt holes are supposed to be somewhat below the chassis tube. Since the belts are attached behind and below the rail, the hole is placed below so the aluminum panel edge isn't against the belt. You can see where they fell on my #8674 build in the attached picture. Allowing the rear panel to be lower than you have in many of your pictures might help.

My other question is are you installing the panels in the exact sequence as in the instructions, and exactly following the recommended overlap directions? And also don't get real hung up on the shipping screws (if you are). They may/may not be exactly where the part needs to be.

My experience with several of these is the parts are amazingly accurate and fit quite well. Only thing I've ever had to do in the cockpit aluminum is adjust a couple bends a little and also clearance a few welds.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
edwardb is online now  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
Thanks, Ed.
As always you have great feedback and suggestions & thanks for the pic.

Yes the main thing I thing I was trying to figure out how critical was the position of the SB holes, I was worried about chaffing the belts.
I will try shifting the bulkhead down (on both sides and see how everything lines up).
Make sense as overall seems to line up better the lower it is.

Yes installing the sequence as in the instructions (so far as I can tell)
and yes overlap (over vs under I assume you mean)
+ I had marked over vs under before taking panels off (with many pics for ref)?

This is the first time that the shipping screws have really seemed to be off, will just have to let that one go.

Agreed on how well everything has seemed to fit.
This is the first time something with the panels really seemed off,
so I guess that is why I got a little flustered and stepped away to think about it and ask for help.

I will breath and ignore the shipping screws and do some adjustments this weekend and see if it falls into better alignment.

What order do you suggest for drilling and mounting the bulkhead panel ?
Start at the top and work down?
I tend to do one row/tab/area at a time, test fit-Cleco, mark panel for next area/frame bar, repeat till complete
kenladdude is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 10:51 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Captain
 
edwardb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lake Orion, MI
Posts: 5,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenladdude View Post
What order do you suggest for drilling and mounting the bulkhead panel ?
Start at the top and work down?
I tend to do one row/tab/area at a time, test fit-Cleco, mark panel for next area/frame bar, repeat till complete
I don't do anything special with any of the panels. First mark them where the frame is located, e.g. Sharpie tracing on the back side. Then lay out where I want the holes. Drill and de-burr the holes in the panel. Then back on the frame, locate in position, usually clamp where it's supposed to be, and start drilling holes and putting in clecos. Typically doesn't move once it's clamped in place and drilling/clecoing starts. I also typically line up all surrounding panels before drilling/clecoing.

One other hint. Maybe you've seen mentioned in other threads. Don't rivet the back cockpit wall until the trunk floor is done. If you rivet the back wall before the trunk floor, you'll have trouble getting the rivets in the trunk floor.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by edwardb; 08-16-2019 at 12:04 AM.
edwardb is online now  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
Roger that Ed, usually follow your recommendations/procedures
Biggest mistake was not putting the rear bulkhead panel in to test fit before drilling the surrounding ones.
Forgot to think that many steps ahead (have done test fitting in other areas like footboxes).
Doing the trunk next so need to not forget to do that

& Yup seen about rivet trunk first, just clecoing everying thing now, so hopefully I remember when it comes time to final rivet.

Definitely follow your build threads (& a couple others) for tips & tricks, just so much to try to remember . . . .

Thanks for all the time you spend help us first timers out.
kenladdude is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 01:05 AM
Senior Member
FFCars Major
 
rich grsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: O'Fallon, Mo
Posts: 7,332
You need one cleco about every 5 or 6 holes, not everyone.
rich grsc is online now  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
Thanks Rich
Understood, I plan on removing majority once finished with all panels, just haven't gotten to it yet.
I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy

kenladdude is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 08:19 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Major
 
rich grsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: O'Fallon, Mo
Posts: 7,332
You must've got a great deal on those things.. I thing I only had about 25 total.
rich grsc is online now  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 08:40 PM
Junior Charter Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
Avalanche325's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Posts: 2,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenladdude View Post
I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy
Looks like belt, suspenders, and Depends.

MKIV Roadster....FFR7694
3-link Moser, Wilwood brakes, 347, TKO
Avalanche325 is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 10:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 480
You mentioned that a couple of times your drill bits "walked". Are you using a spring loaded center punch to dimple prior to drilling? If not, get one from Harbor Freight.

Doug
FFR7995
MK IV
Prestige Motorsports 347 SBF, Moser 8.8 (3.31), 3 link, TKO 600,hydraulic clutch, PS, Heat/AC, 17" Halibrands, Nitto 555s,
Bobby Doug is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Doug View Post
You mentioned that a couple of times your drill bits "walked". Are you using a spring loaded center punch to dimple prior to drilling? If not, get one from Harbor Freight.
Yes I use the center punch.
One of the holes onto the round frame tube and just didn't bite,
skated of the side of the tube and let me tell you drill bits can make for good routers on the Al panels (went about 1/2" before I stopped) Grr.
It also must have broken the tip of the bit b/c when I went to the next hole (on square tube this time) it did the same thing b/c of the broken tip.
Overall 2 holes out of like 500 is not to bad (< .5% error ?), IMO
Wish it hadn't happened but both are basically going to be hidden anyways so . . .
kenladdude is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich grsc View Post
You must've got a great deal on those things..
Well actually it has been one of the cheaper things over all for the project
kenladdude is offline  
post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
kenladdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Reno / NV
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
I also typically line up all surrounding panels before drilling/clecoing.
Did a little finagling this weekend, got the rear panels to line up better over all once I moved the bulkhead down a little (SB Hole edge below frame bar).
Would have liked a little better but best comprise with the situation as it is (Other panels already drilled, lesson learned)
Still not as nice as yours of course

Will post some pics once I get everything locked down.

Thanks again Ed.
kenladdude is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome

 

Welcome to FFCars! The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the FFCars.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Factory Five Racing, Inc. or Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by FFCars.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Factory Five Racing, Inc. or Ford Motor Company for any purpose. "FFR", "Factory Five", "Factory Five Racing", and the Factory Five Racing logo are registered trademarks of Factory Five Racing, Inc. FFCars.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting the FFCars.com Forum dedicated to Factory Five.