Brakes, power or not - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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Brakes, power or not

Been lurking and reading a lot but saw a thread that has me thinking again. On the Wilwood upgrades from stock FFR PBRs, what versions probably delete either a booster or hydro Boost? I saw one owner commenting that the Wilwood 6/4 piston combo was too much effort but great feel. What about Wilwood 4/2 piston front/rear combo?
Also, how many pistons are the kit std PBRs? I remember the hawk pad upgrade seemed to help the PBRs a lot.

I realize there are many combos, but is a Wilwood 4/2 upgrade needing power boost? How many owners are happy with the PBRs?

Thx much

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 06:37 AM
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My recently registered kit came with the wilwood master cylinders and standard PBR brakes all round. I would not go this route unless you plan to modify the brake pedal and make it wide enough to fit both feet at the same time! This is the only way you can apply enough brake pressure to actually lock the wheels. I have just received a set of hawk brake pads for the princely sum of $440 landed in Australia. a friend has these fitted to the same specification of car and they certainly improve it to a point of being acceptable, but still not mind blowing. my personal feeling is that the master cylinder ratio is just wrong. with the brakes bled and adjusted correctly there is virtually no travel on the master cylinder. The current master cylinders are .75. IMHO, without being an expert on braking systems, a bore size of .6 or even potentially .5 might have been better. I feel this would have given a case of better brake modulation, improved feel and more braking power.

Currently, pressing my brake pedal just feels like something to do whilst on the way to a crash.

Here's hoping the Hawks will transform my car, which I otherwise really enjoy.

Cheers, Nigel in South Oz

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 11:28 AM
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Have standard non-power brakes. The pads that came with the package were scary. Felt like the car was never going to stop.

Switched to HAWK HP+ & car will stop from 60 in under 100ft with moderate pedal pressure.


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:14 PM
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To get my PBR's to feel "good" it took the addition of a power brake booster AND an ABS system. Having fought repeatedly with sticky calipers on the PBR, if I had to start over I would have upgraded the calipers to Wilwood, Ford Racing or Baer. To answer your question, the front PBR's are a 2 caliper design. The stock rear is a single caliper.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:36 PM
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I have the Wilwood's from Levy, no power. I have them set up with 2 - .75 masters and I think the pads are different from FFR's but they should be similar.
They work well, yes you do have to push more than with power brakes but not silly hard. Put your full foot on the pedal not just your toe, The feel is different than most street cars the pedal is much harder, no mush.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:44 PM
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Surprised to see .75 MCs on both front and rear. It has been fairly standard w/ the Mustang calipers to use 3/4 front and 5/8 rear. That would depend on the rear caliper piston diameter. Perhaps the current caliper FFR supplies are larger bore than they used to be.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 03:05 PM
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the .75 MC's are on Wilwood brakes, 6 piston front and 4 piston rear not the Mustang ones. I changed the 5/8 one to 3/4 an Gordon's advise.
David W

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 02:02 AM
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I went from the Jeep 15/16 master to CNC 3/4 masters then back to the Jeep. More pressure with the Jeep (tandem vs parallel master) and since I have enough rear brake, I installed a proportioning valve in the rear line to balance it. Have ABS also.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 12:45 AM
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Power or non power brakes

I would highly recommend anyone building a kit to build it with power brakes from the start. I was totally disappointed in the braking ability of the standard non-power setup from FFR. I also installed new front pads as recommended by several owners on this forum. Still braking was not what I wanted. Finally broke down and installed the Wilwood 6 piston setup on the front (calipers, pads and discs). Braking is now much better but could be improved if power assist was added.

Should I build another kit two things would have to be on it, power steering and power brakes.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 03:01 PM
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I have the Wilwoods from FFR. 6/2 pistons. They have .75" front and rear M/Cs. They stop the car very well, never had any fade including a heavy braking track. They do take a firm foot, but have good feel. You can lock them up, ie flat spot your tires.


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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 04:39 PM
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FYI, there is another similar thread in the Type 65 Coupe forum.

https://www.ffcars.com/forums/21-ffr...er-brakes.html

Per post #3 in that thread from Bob Cowan, I'm probably going to try BP-20 brake pads from Wilwood that are also available through Summit. I have the complete kit with the Wilwood brake upgrade and manual MC, and the braking performance is not as good as I want.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 12:07 AM
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Which hawk pads?

I've heard that the Hawk ++ pads make a big difference with the Wilwood brakes. Does anyone have the appropriate part number for those pads?

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 12:30 AM
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I have hydroboost and really don't like it. Way too sensitive. I even cut the spring in the pump a bunch. The brakes lock up way too easy.

I do have rear drums and will do a disc swap on the rears this winter. If that doesn't balance things out, then I will probably yank out the hydroboost and go back to manual brakes.

Side note...I do have to check the brake pedal...maybe it's got too much leverage for power brakes.

Dan


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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 03:04 AM Thread Starter
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Seems like the FFR supplied base level brakes are not so hot without going nuclear with pads. Then Wilwoods can be too sensitive with boost but firm pressure manual not too bad. Has anyone tried Brembos or similar? Just wondered why Wilwoods are so common besides the FFR connection.
Is hydroboost adjustable or are you stuck with changing MCs?

Thx for the inputs!
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 03:12 PM
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Just a note for you 15" wheel guys. '87 Corvette rotors and calipers are the largest you can fit in a 15" wheel. GM was not sure that Goodyear would have the new 16" tires available. They will peel tape weights from the wheel. I believe that '87 was the last year for an emergency brake built into the rear caliper. There are adapters somewhere but they are easy to make. Use the factory caliper brackets. They are made in Australia and look like Mustang brakes. With dual master cylinders and a balance bar, you could not lock up the brakes with both feet. I replaced the entire assembly with the shortened pedal, pedal box, master cylinder and brake booster from a Nissan 240SX. The Vette and the 240 have big/little calipers and good sports car weight distribution. Rears would almost lock up first - you could hear them chirping on the tar strips under extreme braking. Great brkes, nice pedal feel, easy to modulate, easy to find replacement parts, and your wife will love them.
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