Help on What Engine to Choose - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
 3Thanks
  • 1 Post By Real time recon
  • 1 Post By wickershaw
  • 1 Post By mg2
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 27
Help on What Engine to Choose

So, before I was going to sell the MK4, but then someone on here suggested I hire the traveling builder, Mark. He is great. He came out a couple of weeks ago and got me started and will get me to the finish line. So we were talking motors and I told him that I'm more into this car for the look of it than for the engine size. So he recommended a 302. Someone from The Engine Factory quoted me and it seemed rather high of a price! I think it was $11k. With all the transmission and other things, it was around $16K. That seemed quite high. I live near Summit Racing so I went down there and they have a 302 for $3200.

So what am I missing? I want an automatic transmission and an engine that is enough to give it medium power. I am not trying to drive crazy. This car is for cruising around on weekends in nice weather. That's it. I am NOT a big engine kind of guy.

I know I sound ignorant on these matters...I am fine with that. But I am sure there are people out there on this forum who can appreciate that I don't need a big engine.


Last edited by pgabrail; 06-08-2019 at 04:35 PM. Reason: I wanted email updates when someone posts
pgabrail is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 06:29 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Captain
 
edwardb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lake Orion, MI
Posts: 5,671
At the risk of stating the obvious, the answer is it depends on what you want. That 302 from Summit is likely an OE replacement style engine with similar power. The 302 from Engine Factory would have been a custom build and much higher HP. I personally don't have experience with them, but Blueprint Engines is a partner of Factory Five now, and do offer a ready-to-run 302 that's toward the lower price range of what you're looking at. At 235 HP is going to be leisurely, but as the saying goes you get what you pay for. Lots of builds used donor engines, and that's probably the most economical. Automatic transmission adds another variable, while certainly doable, isn't too common.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
edwardb is online now  
post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 27
Thanks for the comment! Yeah, I dont think I will be using a donor car. But the $11K for the engine alone seemed like a lot. I had emailed my BluePrint rep this morning before I posted this so I will be getting some information from him soon. Of course, you get what you pay for. I agree 100% but I also don't want to pay for more just because it's more. I don't need or want more.
pgabrail is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 07:06 PM
Charter Member
FFCars Major
 
trevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MD
Posts: 6,092
HP and strength of parts = cost

My 600hp, 7200 rpm race engine, dart block, forged everything, solid roller is almost 20k.

It depends on what you want. Sounds like a 400hp 347ci crate motor for 6-8k would be perfect.

FFR3842, 363ci/600hp, AFR205's, Wilwood 6/4 piston Superlites, Koni DAs, Magnesium bellhousing and Tilton Triple disk clutch, GF5R dog ringed 5 speed, 3link, VPM sway bars, Hoosier A6s, CCW forged wheels, wings, undertray, diffuser
trevor is offline  
post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 27
I don't even think I want 400 hp
pgabrail is offline  
post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 07:16 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
Real time recon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Smith Mt. lake Virginia
Posts: 1,433
EFI 5.0 302 in my opinion is a Great choice for these cars.But 10 to 15K seems high (unless your in the market) for a 302 w/over 400-450 HP.Anyhow, its a great engine,Never Overheats,and 2 hundred pounds less than a 427 Tons of OEM parts.New top of the line Stangs are 302.Time proven,battle tested I'm pushing 345 HP and in 3 years have never found the need to floor it.If you go w/a 302 ,go w/a 373 rear ....that's all ya need
jolsen42 thanked this.
Real time recon is online now  
post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 08:09 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
Real time recon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Smith Mt. lake Virginia
Posts: 1,433
Build a Eng , or buy, a crate 302 like this (w/these components) and done.Don't forger your dealing with a (1) Ton vehicle .Unless you going on the track its all you'll ever need for the street.
>> https://www.americanmuscle.com/ford-...-camshaft.html
Real time recon is online now  
post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 08:25 PM
Junior Member
 
unrealmach1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 20
I used City Motorworks in Dallas, TX for my 393 stroker motor for my mustang. They had great prices. For my cobra I used a Ford Racing crate Coyote motor and both were well under 11k. I don't think I have 11k in the motor, tko600 and it's for the cobra. My dad on the other hand had a custom build 454 for his Chevelle and has probably 15k in it, so it all depends on what you want and what your budget can support.
unrealmach1 is offline  
post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 09:10 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
CDXXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Clarita / California
Posts: 2,061
Fortes Parts

Why don't you call Mike Fortes ( One of the Forum Vendors )

He sells packages specifically set up for these cars.

Here is a complete package including transmission for a little over $12k but not with the Automatic. I'm sure he can put something together for you.

Forte?s Parts 347 Engine Package! (Bestseller) | Fortes Part's Connection


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

F5R #7841: Anniversary Edition MK4, Ford Racing 427, Edelbrock EFI, Gas-N Pipes, Stainless Headers, TKO600, 3.31 Moser 3-Link, 17" Halibrands
First Start 05/23/2015
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

First GoCart 05/23/2015
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CDXXVII is online now  
post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 09:27 PM
Charter Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
wickershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: palos park, il
Posts: 697
You are doing fine. Everybody who ever built one of these things had exactly the same questions you do. The advice is always the same too. Some guys want 700 hp. Some don't. Your best bet is to talk to someone who knows what they are doing. You are lucky to be in Akron. Look up engine builders and go talk to several. Tell them what you are building and say you want a mild, reliable, street 302 and see what they say. (You can also tell them 700 hp. Bring your checkbook) Ask for the names (phone numbers) for customers with similar engines they have built. Call them. Look at the shop. Do they look busy? Is it clean? I mean really clean. The idea here is that you can learn an enormous amount without spending any money. You'll be in a much better position to identify the exactly the engine you want and the price you'll have to pay.

jcdat thanked this.
wickershaw is online now  
post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 10:57 PM
Charter Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
jolsen42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 1,589
What engine?

Well, for what you say you want, I would get a small block 302 crate engine. As you mentioned Summit has them at reasonable prices. I built a 289 Hi-Po motor with dual quads and it has approx 320 Hp.

Here is a long block from Summit.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...24ct/overview/ and I think it would be much more than you would need. You could dress it up anyway you want. As someone mentioned get a 3:73 rear, I run a 3:55 and it runs great.

Here is a pic of my motor.



I hope this helps,

John O

Government is a disease...
...masquerading as its own cure…

FFR1293K-289 slab side "Mr Bruce" body, 289 hi-po, original Cobra dual quad with Carter 3258s and 3259s carbs, original AMCO luggage rack, Tremec TKO, 3-link 3.55 rear, spoked wire wheels, under car exhaust. A replica of CSX 2367.
jolsen42 is offline  
post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 11:45 PM
FFCobra Craftsman
 
CraigS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Manassas, Va
Posts: 21,629
I'll 2nd the thought to call Forte. He does all sorts of stuff besides FFRs but he has a really good handle on what works w/ these cars. He can build you an engine or he can sell you one from Ford at a good price. He can also do the automatic I am sure. From what I understand, an AOD is what you want. It's an old school auto trans, old school enough to not need an ECU to control it, but just new school enough to have an overdrive top gear. there are several here w/ auto trans so i hope they will chime in w/ their experience.

FFR 5353K, 408W, TKO 500, 2015 IRS w/ 315 gear, Breeze QA1 DA coilovers front and rear, APE hardtop, Forte front swaybar
CraigS is offline  
post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 07:25 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgabrail View Post
So, before I was going to sell the MK4, but then someone on here suggested I hire the traveling builder, Mark. He is great. He came out a couple of weeks ago and got me started and will get me to the finish line. So we were talking motors and I told him that I'm more into this car for the look of it than for the engine size. So he recommended a 302. Someone from The Engine Factory quoted me and it seemed rather high of a price! I think it was $11k. With all the transmission and other things, it was around $16K. That seemed quite high. I live near Summit Racing so I went down there and they have a 302 for $3200.

So what am I missing? I want an automatic transmission and an engine that is enough to give it medium power. I am not trying to drive crazy. This car is for cruising around on weekends in nice weather. That's it. I am NOT a big engine kind of guy.

I know I sound ignorant on these matters...I am fine with that. But I am sure there are people out there on this forum who can appreciate that I don't need a big engine.
If you can come down to the London Cobra Show. Lots of cars to see and talk to owners as to what they have for engines. Personally I have a 347 and if I ever need to replace it I am going with a 427W.

Doug
FFR7995
MK IV
Prestige Motorsports 347 SBF, Moser 8.8 (3.31), 3 link, TKO 600,hydraulic clutch, PS, Heat/AC, 17" Halibrands, Nitto 555s,

Last edited by Bobby Doug; 06-10-2019 at 07:27 AM. Reason: change text
Bobby Doug is offline  
post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 11:59 AM
Senior Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
KDubU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kennebunk, ME
Posts: 1,008
As others have stated, a 302 from Summit vs Engine Factory will not have the same internals and thus very different HP. A well built 302 or 306 with a TKO600 will run you a fair bit of money, my guess is $11-12k or around there. Mike Forte built me a 351w with TKO600 for just shy of $12k but that was 3 years ago so I would add another $1500-2000 on that these days. Maybe call him and tell him what you are looking for and he will build it to your specs which likely will be less dollars.
KDubU is offline  
post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 01:47 PM
Member
 
Brewha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Somers, Ct
Posts: 52
I went the local route and talked to several local builders in the area. It was good to get their input, see their shops, get different prices and talk to their customers just showing up at their shops. You can tell the good builders by the amount of work they have,what they work on, and finding out where in their schedules you can fit in. The shop I went with gave me the most flexibility, options, and a very fair price. I in turn needed to find a pre 1970 302 block in good shape for them to use. This is not an easy task as most blocks pre 1975 were sent overseas as scrap in the late 1980s.
Why a pre 1970 block? Ct DMV states for us fine outstanding overtax residence, that all pollution control devices that were on that year block must be there. My 1969 block($350) will require a PCV valve.
The motor came out great although I did have to wait an additional 2 months, but I was in the middle of the build anyways. Bored out to 331, balanced, nice cam, custom aluminum heads (10 to 1 compression), and many many extras for under 6k.
The best part about is if I have a question or a problem, I have a great relationship with a local shop to work with.

Mk4 complete kit, 331 Stroker, TKO600, Moser 3.55, Fitech 600
Brewha is offline  
post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 12:02 AM
mg2
Senior Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
mg2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio
Posts: 635
Just got my car on the road with a bone stock mustang 302. With only 235 hp it is still fun to drive, it gets sideways in second and spins the tires in 3rd. I was planning on building it to a 331ci with 350 hp but a divorce got in the way. If just a street cruiser you don’t need 400 hp in my opinion
Real time recon thanked this.

Build pics
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Donor: 87 LX Bought 8/12/2010,kit ordered 1-27-12 7685 Delivered 5/13/12 No more wife, happier life
mg2 is offline  
post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 12:58 AM
FFCobra Craftsman
FFCars Major
 
Chepsk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Easton PA
Posts: 6,065
Garage
Don't ask me, I just keep blowing them up!

New build will be another 331, love the lower power, but a less crazy cam, keep hp to about 400

FFR5148K MkII Roadster, 331 CI 430 HP w/ FITECH Fuel Injection, 3-link, disc brakes, SN95 Cobra Front brakes, FR500 17" Wheels. Electric steering from Saturn VUE. QA1 Double Adjust shocks on all corners. Still mostly Gel-Coat Grey! Now with roll cage and more track stuff, wrecked, beaten, blown-up, man-handled, cut up, butchered, Freaky body mods, sat on by HOOTERS girls, still barely street legal.
Chepsk8 is offline  
post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 02:32 PM
Charter Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
wickershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: palos park, il
Posts: 697
Brewha makes an extremely important point. Check the rules before you start. When I built in 2002, Illinois did not have engine requirements. All I needed was FFR's MCO to license it as a 1965. I started with a 1995 302 with roller lifters. Again, this is the kind of thing an engine builder will know and it can save you thousands of dollars and months of bureaucratic aggravation.

Last edited by wickershaw; 06-13-2019 at 04:02 PM.
wickershaw is online now  
post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 04:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Brastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Jose
Posts: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by mg2 View Post
Just got my car on the road with a bone stock mustang 302. With only 235 hp it is still fun to drive, it gets sideways in second and spins the tires in 3rd. I was planning on building it to a 331ci with 350 hp but a divorce got in the way. If just a street cruiser you don’t need 400 hp in my opinion
I feel the same. My 302 with heads and a cam feel like it is in the high 200s, low 300 hp range. Since my Cobra was set up for street driving, I really do not think that more HP would make much of a difference. I also really like the IRS. I live up a bumpy road and the IRS really helps the daily driving the car gets. Personally, I like the 300hp with the IRS. If I were on the track, then more power and the solid axle would make more sense.

I can also say that I would much rather have a 300+hp running and driving car than a 500+hp monster in the garage unfinished because of budget overages any day.
Brastic is offline  
post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 05:52 PM
FFCobra Fanatic
FFCars Captain
 
Butch B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oregon City OR
Posts: 4,011
Thumbs up

How about a Windsor based 5.0(302) with a mild built 347 for the street? Same price as a rebuilt 302 but way easier to drive on the street? 350ish rwhp and great tq and good mpg. Just saying--
Butch


PS
I have had "many" sbf combo's over the past 21yrs and my mild 347 was/is by far the best motor so far

This ain't no circus--and I don't need any clowns!

MKI #1437, EFI 347, Astro T-5, 3:55 8.8rr, and other upgrades--
Butch B is offline  
post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 09:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Bob Cowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 17,639
When comparing engine purchases, be sure and look closely at what is included - and what is NOT included. You'll get a sweet deal from Summit Racing. But then you may have to shell out for valve covers, front covers, balancers, water pump, starter, etc. Those things really add up fast.

And don't forget about bolts! You can't just go down to the local hardware store and buy everything you need.

.boB "Iron Man"
NASA Rocky Mountain TTU #42
HPDE Instructor
FFR 3691K: Dart 427W, Momar 8 Stack EFI, 600'ish hp, TKO, 3.55 TruTrac, Red with Ghost Flames. Gone, but not forgotten.
BDR 1642: Coyote, 6 speed auto, Edelbrock Blower

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob Cowan is offline  
post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old Today, 03:23 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Michigan
Posts: 20
I did a donor car engine and trans and put a carb on it and I think it has plenty of power and is reliable while not getting hot.
jsteve5050 is online now  
post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old Today, 03:31 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Michigan
Posts: 20
I am looking forward to the day when these might be available as a crate engine.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...gas-v8-engine/
jsteve5050 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (1 members and 4 guests)
Norm B



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome

 

Welcome to FFCars! The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the FFCars.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Factory Five Racing, Inc. or Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by FFCars.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Factory Five Racing, Inc. or Ford Motor Company for any purpose. "FFR", "Factory Five", "Factory Five Racing", and the Factory Five Racing logo are registered trademarks of Factory Five Racing, Inc. FFCars.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting the FFCars.com Forum dedicated to Factory Five.