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post #1 of 263 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
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First roadster build

I started this thread under the new members intro, so I wanted to move it here instead. Here are some pics so far

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#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box
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post #2 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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alum panels

I've marked and drilled all my F, driver's side and passenger side footbox panels. Should I go ahead and drill all the other panels (firewall, trunk, and additional boxed panels) at this time or drill as I go? I'm not planning on powder coating, so I don't really need to prep all my panels at once. I was going to probably spray with rustoleum hammered paint for visible engine bay panels and bed liner for wheel well panels. thoughts?

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post #3 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egchewy View Post
I started this thread under the new members intro, so I wanted to move it here instead. Here are some pics so far
Welcome to the Forum and congratulations! you've come to the right place, now let the fun begin!

Saul


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post #4 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 01:04 PM
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Welcome egchewy. Could you add some info for us please. Go to the grey bar above and click 'User CP'. On the left side in "Edit your details" add your location and in 'Edit you signature' put a few details about your build like engine, trans, suspension.

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post #5 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 04:33 PM
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Welcome!

Which pedal box are you using? 'Cuz the front foot box panel you've got cleco'ed into place is for the OEM Mustang. If you're going with the Wilwood pedal box, you'll find the proper front panel in the box of all the other aluminum pieces.


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post #6 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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shoot...the wilwood pedals are the ones that come with the complete kit, right? thanks for the heads up.
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post #7 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the tip.
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post #8 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 09:20 PM
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1. Make sure to clean and scuff your panels, then use a good etching primer before painting with the hammered finish Rustoleum. Aluminum does not take paint well without proper prepping. I have not had good results with "all-in-one" paint primer on aluminum.

2. Drill the footbox panels,but don't attach the outer walls until as late as possible, giving you to the interior odds-n-ends, especially the driver's side. - Otherwise its a long reach down a narrow path for the pedal assembly wires,etc...
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post #9 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-02-2019, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Lower control arms attached. One of the spacers in the bushing was too long for the brackets on the frame and had to be removed and ground down to fit
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#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box
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post #10 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-02-2019, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egchewy View Post
One of the spacers in the bushing was too long for the brackets on the frame and had to be removed and ground down to fit
Do you mean the sleeve through the center of the polyurethane bushing? If so that is by design---the tabs (brackets) on the frame are intended to capture it so that when the bolt is tightened the tabs clamp the sleeve tight. They should not clamp against the polyurethane portion. If this is what you did you should have spread the tabs, not shortened the center sleeve.

Jeff


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post #11 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-02-2019, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, the metal portion was a bit too long on one of the lower arms. Fit perfectly on the other side. It was less than an 1/8in off so I just ground it down slightly. I wasn't sure if the powder coat made it too snug or if the piece was cut too long. It was sticking out of the plastic bushing slightly as well.

Jeff[/QUOTE]

#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box
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post #12 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-02-2019, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by egchewy View Post
Yes, the metal portion was a bit too long on one of the lower arms. Fit perfectly on the other side. It was less than an 1/8in off so I just ground it down slightly. I wasn't sure if the powder coat made it too snug or if the piece was cut too long. It was sticking out of the plastic bushing slightly as well.
As I said, it is supposed stick out of the bushing. If you encounter that again spread the frame tabs rather than shortening the bushing sleeve.

Jeff

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post #13 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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F panels painted. I used truck bed liner on the wheel side and rustoleum hammered silver on engine bay side.
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#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box
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post #14 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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upper control arm help

I put the ball joint into my upper control arm with red thread lock as recommended by the manual. when looking at the pictures, I noticed that the nuts of the control arm were on top and the bolt heads were on the bottom of the picture. After tightening everything down, I noticed that in the other pics, the zerk fittings were all supposed to be on the top, but I had installed the ball joint upside down. So currently, the zerk fitting of the ball joint is on top but the zerk fittings for the control arms are on the bottom. I had torqued the ball joints so tightly in a vise clamp that I can not get them unthreaded to turn them around, plus the thread lock is likely not helping. Is it OK to leave the upper control arm this way? The only drawback is that the zerk fittings on the control arm are on the bottom, right?
Needless to say, this is a pretty frustrating thing so early in the build.
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post #15 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 04:18 PM
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Not OK. You need to get the arms flipped over so the zerks on the top. Notice it's not just the location of the zerks it's also because the pivot is toward the top. Unfortunately, not that it makes you feel any better, but this is a common mistake. The control arms need to look exactly like the pictures in the manual. You'll probably need to heat where you applied red Loctite. That's usually the only way to get it to break loose.

Separate topic -- I'm a little concerned about the bushing sleeve you ground down vs. spreading the tabs. Take a close look and make sure the control arm still moves OK. Those can be a little stiff even when installed as designed. You may want to think about replacing the part you ground down. Might be best in the long run. Just my opinion. Now is easier than later. Hint for your build: Don't grind or cut on anything until all other options are exercised. From my own experience, I've learned that more often it was because of something I was doing wrong vs. a part needing to be modified.

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post #16 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 04:21 PM
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If you loosen the nuts at the end of the crossbar and remove the nut & bolt connecting the links to the legs of the control arm you can slide the links off of the crossbar and flip them over so that the grease fitting points up. This will allow for easier lubing and also restore the proper control arm geometry.

With that said though, the bigger concern is whether you installed the ball joints from the proper direction. When configured and installed properly the control arms will look like this with the ball joint angling outward and the fittings on the crossbar links pointing up:



The arms are not side specific so when assembled correctly the welded, solid arm will be to the front on the driver's side and to the rear on the passenger side.

Good luck!

Jeff

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post #17 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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The part I ground down was maybe 1/16"too long. It fits very snugly now. LCA moves with very little play, especially with the spacer in the back bracket.

#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box
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post #18 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
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The part I ground down was maybe 1/16"too long. It fits very snugly now. LCA moves with very little play, especially with the spacer in the back bracket.
It wasn't too long. It's supposed to be that length. As Jeff pointed out, the proper solution was to widen the mounting ears. Properly installed, when the mounting bolts are torqued, the bushing is captured between the mounting ears with just enough clearance for the poly bushings to move. Now you have the chance the bushings are bound or at least dragging too much on the mounting ears.

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post #19 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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This is how the BJs are on the UCA. is it possible the rest of the assembly was upside down?

looking at the pics again, I think I did put the BJs on correctly. I think the rest of the assembly is upside down. It looks like the bolts should be coming in from above and the nuts should be on the bottom? I'll flip everything around and keep the BJs in the UCAs as shown. On a separate note, you can see that the BJ is not fully seated in the UCA. This is as tight as I can get it even using a bench top clamp. Any suggestions getting these last 2 threads to turn? Do I need to get a torch? I've read some other forums complaining of the stock BJs that come with the complete kit and recommended getting other ball joints, in which case I'll need a torch to remove the current ones.
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#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box

Last edited by egchewy; 02-03-2019 at 06:01 PM.
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post #20 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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It wasn't too long. It's supposed to be that length. As Jeff pointed out, the proper solution was to widen the mounting ears. Properly installed, when the mounting bolts are torqued, the bushing is captured between the mounting ears with just enough clearance for the poly bushings to move. Now you have the chance the bushings are bound or at least dragging too much on the mounting ears.
any recommendations on how to widen the tabs without scuffing up the powdercoating?
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post #21 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egchewy View Post
This is how the BJs are on the UCA. is it possible the rest of the assembly was upside down?

looking at the pics again, I think I did put the BJs on correctly. I think the rest of the assembly is upside down. It looks like the bolts should be coming in from above and the nuts should be on the bottom? I'll flip everything around and keep the BJs in the UCAs as shown. On a separate note, you can see that the BJ is not fully seated in the UCA. This is as tight as I can get it even using a bench top clamp. Any suggestions getting these last 2 threads to turn? Do I need to get a torch? I've read some other forums complaining of the stock BJs that come with the complete kit and recommended getting other ball joints, in which case I'll need a torch to remove the current ones.
As has been said many times on both forums; the upper control arms are not a Factory Five specific part and can be assembled in various configurations depending on the application. The orientation that they are in when shipped from the vendor are not the proper configuration for our cars. It's up to the end used to do the "mix & match, flip & turn" of the components to wind up in the proper configuration. So, looking at your photo we can see that you have installed the ball joint in the correct direction however it is not seated:



You can't leave it like this and yeah, since you used the red thread locker it's probably going to be difficult to move without heat. Sorry Although some builders may feel otherwise---after having installed a bunch of them I've personally never had problems with the FFR supplied ball joints BUT (and this is a big but) you must remove the thick rust preventative coating from the threads before attempting to install them or they are likely to bind up much like yours did. Run them across a wire wheel to get get that stuff off and once you have them down to clean bare metal threads they'll turn in with very little effort and seat with a healthy "OOMPH".

As for spreading the tabs you can make a homebrewed tool with a section of threaded rod a few inches long, a couple of nuts and flat washers. The threaded rod goes through the holes in the tabs with nuts threaded on as shown here:



Turning the nuts opposite each other will spread the tabs. Easy peasey!

Cheers,
Jeff
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post #22 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 06:34 PM
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1/2 inch all thread, two 1/2 fender washers, two 1/2 in nuts. You install in the brackets so the huts are together in the center and the washers protect the inside of the mount ears when you turn the nuts to force the ears further apart. I recommend the 1/2 inch size so you can use your tool on other places if needed. Some of those will be smaller than the 5/8 on the LCAs.
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post #23 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 08:05 PM
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I hate red Loctite. It has almost no uses on a car, the ball joints being the only exception. ALWAYS test fit parts before applying it, make sure it's correct. It only comes apart with heat.
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post #24 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds like I'm buying a torch🔥
I'll remove that rust coating with a wire wheel and it should seat down just fine. Thanks for the advice.

#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box
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post #25 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 08:42 PM
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Heat gun works well for heating parts attached with red loctite (ask me how I know) and you will use it when you get to shrinking wrap in the wiring phase.




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post #26 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 08:47 PM
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Frustrating but loving it

Egchewy,

I am not much further along than you and at my rate of progress will probably be way behind in no time. Just about each step so far has been met with frustration of some sort. Tabs too narrow, too wide, UCAs incorrect, etc... After reading several build threads, mock up your work and ask for opinions before finalizing. Everything that you are going through has already been figured out by someone else. Learn from their trial and errors. Before modifying something, ask questions. Somehow, I was lucky with the ball joints. They threaded right on without issue. I had read that putting in the freezer helps. Mine were in my quite cold garage offered no resistance. I did use a wire brush on the threads first to get any crud off but had no issue. Once I got the "looks good" responses to pictures I posted on the other forum, I loosened and added thread locker and tightened on my bench vice.

I am going the donor route. My next step is to prep my donor rear end and set up the 3 link.

Good luck!

Rob
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post #27 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Good to know. I'm guessing whatever method I use will result in a mess from the grease melting out of the ball joint. I've been trying to loosen it by hitting the end of the UCA with a plastic dead blow hammer while the ball joint is in the bench vise. Any other ideas to get better leverage, or will it move easily once I heat it up?

#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box
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post #28 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Rob. Lots of knowledge and helpful people out there.

#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box
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post #29 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 09:10 PM
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Do try heat. I have a small torch that I use on my bun piles. I tried to use brute strength to remove a few rusted on bolts. They loosened after putting the torch on them for a while. I had a similar issue trying to remove flywheel bolts. My impact had no effect. I got them red hot, cooled a little and then the impact worked.

Rob
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post #30 of 263 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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Come to think of it, I have a small kitchen torch that I use to make creme brulee that would work just fine!

#9503 MK4 complete kit
1966 289 SBF HiPo bored 30 over
Tremec T5Z
8.8" Moser rear end w/ 3.55 gear ratio
manual steering
RT drop trunk
Breeze front battery box
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FFR 9439 Roadster Build Status dwleo Factory Five Roadsters 0 12-18-2018 03:40 PM

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