Need opinions on paint problems - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
 1Thanks
  • 1 Post By JKleiner
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
topfuelhydro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Etowah, TN
Posts: 21
Need opinions on paint problems

I need some opinions on my paint issues if anyone has experienced this before. I had to repaint my roadster due to a small engine fire on the left side. Paint blistered in a few places and hood yellowed a little on one corner. I needed to fix a few rock chips too so I figured what the heck just as easy to paint the whole thing.
My problem is the paint is lifting or wrinkling up in various places all over the car. Sprayed base coat the for the 3rd time today and places on the hood and right front fender lifted. It is different places each time except the right front fender has done it twice now.
History is I painted it with PPG base coat clearcoat about 5 years ago. Used all PPG products, top of the line. Primer, sealer, base and clear. Same products used this time. Local paint store and all the local guys we talked to have not had this type issue before. Last time we used a quicker reducer as that seemed to be the common solution on most of the technical internet sites I looked at. Base won't do it until the 2nd coat.
Anyone who paints seen this before?

Steven



topfuelhydro1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 03:51 AM
Cobra Colorist
 
j.miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Temecula Cal.
Posts: 5,632
There are a few reasons it could be lifting. Rather then speculating I'll give you the cure. Sand those places down one more time past the blistering (down to the gelcoat if you have to) 3 coats of water base primer (follow the directions. Block the primer, prep the car with 500-600 wet and give it two coats of sealer, let dry over night, shoot base coat the following day. The integrity of your clearcoat has been compromised . It has lost a property that gives it a measure of chemical resistance. You need to get a barrier coat on (sealer) or you will chase it till the cows come home (and they ain't leavin the party anytime soon)...been there a few times...different reasons each time.....a gallon if paint is 132ozs of a problem looking for a place to happen !...da Bat


Drink me handsome and take me home....Bartender, I'd like to buy the little lady a drink...better make it a double.
j.miller is offline  
post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 02:38 PM
Buck
 
Buck8one2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Ellijay GA
Posts: 288
Garage
Check for moisture in the air supply.

302 bored 0.030, AOD by Monster, RPM Air Gap, FITech EFI, 8.8 with 3.73 gear, 17' Foose Nitrous 5 spoke wheels, and Nexen N3000 tires
Buck8one2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
topfuelhydro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Etowah, TN
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.miller View Post
There are a few reasons it could be lifting. Rather then speculating I'll give you the cure. Sand those places down one more time past the blistering (down to the gelcoat if you have to) 3 coats of water base primer (follow the directions. Block the primer, prep the car with 500-600 wet and give it two coats of sealer, let dry over night, shoot base coat the following day. The integrity of your clearcoat has been compromised . It has lost a property that gives it a measure of chemical resistance. You need to get a barrier coat on (sealer) or you will chase it till the cows come home (and they ain't leavin the party anytime soon)...been there a few times...different reasons each time.....a gallon if paint is 132ozs of a problem looking for a place to happen !...da Bat
Thanks Jeff. We went over there today to do what you said and guess what? About 6 more spots had lifted that were not there when we left it yesterday. I'm gonna bite the bullet and do what we should have done the first time it lifted. I'm going to strip the whole car back to the original primer we applied 5 years ago or gelcoat as the case may be. On every spot so far it has not lifted the original primer only down to the original sealer. Have you ever used a chemical stripper on one of these bodies? That is a lot! of sanding without chemical help. I hate body work and painting more than anything else automotive! Hats off to you for doing it every day.

Steven
topfuelhydro1 is offline  
post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 08:45 PM
Not a waxer
 
JKleiner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
Posts: 11,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.miller View Post
a gallon if paint is 132ozs of a problem looking for a place to happen !
OMG, how true (but check your math ). This is getting framed and hung in the paint booth---you'll get credit, in fact when you come to visit I'll have you sign it

Jeff
roadscholar thanked this.

Mk3 #5946 build pics w/text

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Mk4 #7276 "indy14" Build thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Mk4 Bodywork thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JKleiner is online now  
post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 12:46 PM
Cobra Colorist
 
j.miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Temecula Cal.
Posts: 5,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKleiner View Post
OMG, how true (but check your math ). This is getting framed and hung in the paint booth---you'll get credit, in fact when you come to visit I'll have you sign it

Jeff


OH ! JK ! I have the math just where it belongs....There are 128 oz in a gallon.….but paint has 132oz of problems....more trouble then it's worth....see what I'm sayin. Let's clog ! "">>""<<""==''==;;00;;(($$%%##@@[email protected]@##%%))(())((>< ><> HOW DID I DO ? DID I SAVE MY ARSE? back to summer school for remedial math.....on the upside,,,, I now know why I keep coming up short on my catalyst. OH! We can put my "math" on the hood that I cut the scoop hole backwards......THIS JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER !




HYDRO !!!!! do not use chemical stripper !!!I don't care what the can says ! Chemical stripper will contaminate every substrate down to the fiberglass. Machine strip with 80gr on an orbital sander. OR! Take it and have it Plastic Media Blasted down to the gelcoat and start over.....walnut shell blasting ok.....sand, water/sand, Soda, Garnet, Slag are a NO GO !!


Now ! Me being me , I go crazy trying to find the cause of a problem so it doesn't happen again. For you, I would try to find someone who has been painting for at least 20 years and have them look at it , feel it, sand it (to try to determine how deep the problem goes and take his advise. After 20 years of painting they will have seen and made a good percentage of the mistakes that can be made......If he has made it or been a party to it don't be surprised IF he tells you it "happened to a buddy of his" that is painter code for "I F'ed up but no way in hell am I gonna admit it" ….what can I say, It's never our fault {we have a 687 page book of excuses we refer too} Prep, weather, contamination, product failure....etc. THAT'S JUST HOW IT IS! ...da Bat

Drink me handsome and take me home....Bartender, I'd like to buy the little lady a drink...better make it a double.
j.miller is offline  
post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 01:53 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
beeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 1,389
Thanks for the chuckle this morning!

MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. PS, PB, ABS, TC.
GTM #304 525hp LPE LS3
2000 C5 Coupe 489HP LPE LS1
beeman is offline  
post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 06:40 PM
Ray
Moderator
 
Ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 7,650
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to Ray
Painters Excuse’s (here’s a collection of some excuses many have heard (or used) in the body shop):

I thought the molding would cover it
The rep told me to do it that way
It won’t look so bad outside
It was painted before
It’s just a blend panel
It probably had over-spray before it came in
It’s as good as the bodywork
The scale needs calibrating
It’s too cold in here
It’s too hot in here
They’re stone chips, they're fish-eyes

And the number one excuse:

It looked good…….until I cleared it!

And then there is "Painter Math"
Attached Images
File Type: jpg minion-math.jpg (42.9 KB, 26 views)

If it weren't for physics and law enforcement...I'd be unstoppable!

Last edited by Ray; 08-06-2018 at 06:46 PM.
Ray is online now  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-07-2018, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
topfuelhydro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Etowah, TN
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.miller View Post
OH ! JK ! I have the math just where it belongs....There are 128 oz in a gallon.….but paint has 132oz of problems....more trouble then it's worth....see what I'm sayin. Let's clog ! "">>""<<""==''==;;00;;(($$%%##@@[email protected]@##%%))(())((>< ><> HOW DID I DO ? DID I SAVE MY ARSE? back to summer school for remedial math.....on the upside,,,, I now know why I keep coming up short on my catalyst. OH! We can put my "math" on the hood that I cut the scoop hole backwards......THIS JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER !

HYDRO !!!!! do not use chemical stripper !!!I don't care what the can says ! Chemical stripper will contaminate every substrate down to the fiberglass. Machine strip with 80gr on an orbital sander. OR! Take it and have it Plastic Media Blasted down to the gelcoat and start over.....walnut shell blasting ok.....sand, water/sand, Soda, Garnet, Slag are a NO GO !!


Now ! Me being me , I go crazy trying to find the cause of a problem so it doesn't happen again. For you, I would try to find someone who has been painting for at least 20 years and have them look at it , feel it, sand it (to try to determine how deep the problem goes and take his advise. After 20 years of painting they will have seen and made a good percentage of the mistakes that can be made......If he has made it or been a party to it don't be surprised IF he tells you it "happened to a buddy of his" that is painter code for "I F'ed up but no way in hell am I gonna admit it" ….what can I say, It's never our fault {we have a 687 page book of excuses we refer too} Prep, weather, contamination, product failure....etc. THAT'S JUST HOW IT IS! ...da Bat
Thanks for the tip on the stripper. Man I dread sanding that thing down by hand. Did I mention I hate body work! Guy that's spraying it for me has been painting for 30 years and he hasn't seen this before. I ran out of 20 year experts around here so that's when I posted and I know a LOT of painters. Lifting goes all the way down to the original primer I put on 5 years ago but never deeper than that. We are now blaming it on the original sealer but don't know why. By the way I agree with your math.

Steven
topfuelhydro1 is offline  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-07-2018, 01:44 PM
Cobra Colorist
 
j.miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Temecula Cal.
Posts: 5,632
I feel your pain brother....but I've got to say that if it were mine I would hit those spots with "waterborne primer" it is an incredible barrier coat and try to save it ONE....MORE....TIME.....Is it only happening where you have broken through the clear, or where you have sanded through the base? What grit paper are you finishing with before new base?


Drink me handsome and take me home....Bartender, I'd like to buy the little lady a drink...better make it a double.
j.miller is offline  
post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
topfuelhydro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Etowah, TN
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.miller View Post
I feel your pain brother....but I've got to say that if it were mine I would hit those spots with "waterborne primer" it is an incredible barrier coat and try to save it ONE....MORE....TIME.....Is it only happening where you have broken through the clear, or where you have sanded through the base? What grit paper are you finishing with before new base?
That's the strange part. It will lift in places where the clear was just scuffed. As a matter of fact it has not lifted in any places where we broke through the clear. No rhyme or reason. Had the PPG paint rep look at it today and he was puzzled too. It laid down perfect on the original paint job that's why i'm going back to the primer. If I used the water based primer I wouldn't feel good about it unless I primed the whole car.
I'm thinking about robbing a bank. I have no finger prints left and I need the money to buy more paint. Red is expensive!

Steven
topfuelhydro1 is offline  
post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-09-2018, 02:36 PM
Senior Member
 
papadaytona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 121
I like the idea of making sure you do not have water in your compressor or that you are not making a mistake mixing the paint. Its easy to make a mistake mixing the paint. Been there done that! I would run a test on one of the smaller panels like a door and let it sit. This will give you the confidence that what you are about to invest 100+ hours into is going to fix the problem. Just saying....
papadaytona is offline  
post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-09-2018, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
topfuelhydro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Etowah, TN
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by papadaytona View Post
I like the idea of making sure you do not have water in your compressor or that you are not making a mistake mixing the paint. Its easy to make a mistake mixing the paint. Been there done that! I would run a test on one of the smaller panels like a door and let it sit. This will give you the confidence that what you are about to invest 100+ hours into is going to fix the problem. Just saying....
This is not moisture in the paint. I know what that does and looks like. The paint is actually lifting from the surface below it. You can see it plainly as you sand. No mistake in mixing the paint unless the 3 different people at the paint store have made it. Possible but not likely. I have bought it 3 times and each time a different person mixed it. As far as mixing it to spray I do that myself and it is correct.
I do appreciate the thinking and response to my problem.

Steven
topfuelhydro1 is offline  
post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 12:02 AM
Senior Member
 
papadaytona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 121
And you used compatible products, but you have bubbles in your paint. Looks to me like its chemical compatibility issues that can be caused by mixing incompatible products are errors in mixing.
papadaytona is offline  
post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 09:37 AM
Snake Farmer
 
AC Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver Island B.C.
Posts: 10,215
Garage
Maybe some wax embedded in the clear? Did you ever wax, or use polish of any sort, after it was painted?
AC Bill is offline  
post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
topfuelhydro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Etowah, TN
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC Bill View Post
Maybe some wax embedded in the clear? Did you ever wax, or use polish of any sort, after it was painted?
Yes. Waxed it a couple of times.
topfuelhydro1 is offline  
post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
topfuelhydro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Etowah, TN
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by papadaytona View Post
And you used compatible products, but you have bubbles in your paint. Looks to me like its chemical compatibility issues that can be caused by mixing incompatible products are errors in mixing.
I agree with the chemical compatibility issue. Just can't figure out exactly what.
topfuelhydro1 is offline  
post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 02:25 PM
Cobra Colorist
 
j.miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Temecula Cal.
Posts: 5,632
It's not an incompatibility problem....it is a sensiitivity problem, not contamination, not time, heat, moisture or improper mixing. What we have is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum and to be honest I dropped out of quantum physics . It's true,,,,MY NAME IS JEFF AND I CAN'T SPEAK NERD. I was just there for the bohemian type chicks...WHAT ! I was curious......that's all, just curious...da bat

Drink me handsome and take me home....Bartender, I'd like to buy the little lady a drink...better make it a double.
j.miller is offline  
post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 03:09 PM
Senior Charter Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
MCathcart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North Myrtle Beach
Posts: 1,244
My .02 Worth.

I've sprayed a lot of paint but I'm Not a Body Man/Painter (Like Da'Bat or Jeff or SR Painter) so I read the instructions, if there's Armorall or Silicone in the paint area you'd better break out the Jesus Statue and Pray. All manufacturers tell you what to wipe the car down with. I know I have a Gallon of Dupont stuff I paid big bucks for a gallon of what they suggested to wipe a car down Before painting. If the MFG says run three laps around the building, I'll do it Because I am an Amateur.

I can tell you this, I am with Da'Bat on Stripper. I wouldn't use a stripper on Fiberglass for any reason. Sand the Hell out of it and Use a sealer and Follow the instructions. "Wait, 21.08 minutes before sanding... YES SIR"! From all the stuff I've painted "Slick Sand" is the Bomb. I also learned on my last FFR about Filler. I'd used $12.00 a gallon filler for 40 years. Hell, most of it lands on the floor anyway but reading here I decided to use Rage, Man-O-Man what a difference!

And I'm still with the Pro's. Find someone locally to look at it before you make it worse.

Good Luck.
MCathcart is offline  
post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 04:54 PM
Not a waxer
 
JKleiner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
Posts: 11,510
Only a fool will ignore Miller's advice. I mean sure, he's loopy and all that but you'd best listen to him. I do

Jeff

Mk3 #5946 build pics w/text

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Mk4 #7276 "indy14" Build thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Mk4 Bodywork thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JKleiner is online now  
post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
topfuelhydro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Etowah, TN
Posts: 21
It took me a few months but finally got it sprayed about midnight last night. I solved the problem. Didn't really figure it out but I solved it. Took body back down to the gelcoat and started from scratch. I just couldn't bring myself to try it again. Didn't lift this time! PPG rep said it wasn't their paint products but they gave me about $3K worth of stuff! Appreciate their help but I would have rather bought the paint if they had supplied the labor.

Steven
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2283.jpg (100.5 KB, 71 views)
topfuelhydro1 is offline  
post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 03:51 AM
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
cwrandolph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sidney, Ohio
Posts: 1,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by topfuelhydro1 View Post
It took me a few months but finally got it sprayed about midnight last night. I solved the problem. Didn't really figure it out but I solved it. Took body back down to the gelcoat and started from scratch. I just couldn't bring myself to try it again. Didn't lift this time! PPG rep said it wasn't their paint products but they gave me about $3K worth of stuff! Appreciate their help but I would have rather bought the paint if they had supplied the labor.

Steven
It looks really good Steven! And now you have a great story to tell! Glad that you finally got it figured out.

Chas Randolph Sidney, Ohio FFR 6113, '91 5.0 EFI, TFS heads, Comp cam, GT40 Tubular intake, 24lb injectors T5Z w/midshift, 3-link, SAI Mod, TurboCoupe rear 3:55's, 17" Team III's, Picked up @ FFR on 5/5/07, First start 10/5/08, Go Cart 9/27/09, Licensed & Legal 9/30/10. Painted 6/3/12. Graduation 8/21/12. Engine rebuilt & pumped up May '13. Breeze/QA1 External single adjustable Coil-Over shocks May '17
cwrandolph is online now  
post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 03:58 AM
Senior Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
SveltGt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Marino, CA
Posts: 801
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by topfuelhydro1 View Post
It took me a few months but finally got it sprayed about midnight last night. I solved the problem. Didn't really figure it out but I solved it. Took body back down to the gelcoat and started from scratch. I just couldn't bring myself to try it again. Didn't lift this time! PPG rep said it wasn't their paint products but they gave me about $3K worth of stuff! Appreciate their help but I would have rather bought the paint if they had supplied the labor.

Steven
Nice looking red there Steven! Glad it finally worked out!

2006 Stock Challenge Car. I'm removing parts, not adding them!
SveltGt is offline  
post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 12:57 PM
1st RFM/FFR Legacy Winner
 
Greg_M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 21,346
That looks great. I bet it was a lot of work!

Greg

FFR4373RD MK3, nondonor, DIY options/mods/paint, Lexus indigo/Viper silver, Hydroboost PS&PB/discs/ABS, AC/heat, 3-link/Konis, FMS302E, Holley 600DP/Airgap, 4X4 exhaust, Halibrand deep lip chrome CobraIII, TeamIII spinners, rollbars: chrome full & single


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greg_M is online now  
post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 01:57 PM
Cobra Colorist
 
j.miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Temecula Cal.
Posts: 5,632
Well done brother.....way to tough it out.....now you have to sell it and nobody will ever appreciate the work you put into it and you write it off as one of those worthless life lessons that make no sense at all....just put it all behind you. OR ! DRIVE IT LIKE YA STOLE IT !!!!

Drink me handsome and take me home....Bartender, I'd like to buy the little lady a drink...better make it a double.
j.miller is offline  
post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 10:04 PM
Junior Charter Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
Avalanche325's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Posts: 2,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.miller View Post
....it is a sensiitivity problem...
What's this world coming to, when even paint gets sensitive.



Steven,
Man, I'm sorry you hit this issue. That really sucks. I hope you get it solved. I know what I would do....Whatever our two Jeff's say to do.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg kitten.jpg (8.3 KB, 12 views)

MKIV Roadster....FFR7694
3-link Moser, Wilwood brakes, 347, TKO
Avalanche325 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome

 

Welcome to FFCars! The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the FFCars.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Factory Five Racing, Inc. or Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by FFCars.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Factory Five Racing, Inc. or Ford Motor Company for any purpose. "FFR", "Factory Five", "Factory Five Racing", and the Factory Five Racing logo are registered trademarks of Factory Five Racing, Inc. FFCars.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting the FFCars.com Forum dedicated to Factory Five.