Ride Home in Shame - Ruined Tire - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
 1Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 01:41 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
CDXXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Clarita / California
Posts: 2,071
Thumbs up Ride Home in Shame - Ruined Tire

I have been reading a few threads out there about the dreaded flatbed ride home and how to hook up and ramp clearances and all the other things you will never figure out until you have to.

Well today I finally got my education in the intricacies of towing a Cobra home with a ruined rear passenger side tire.

The number 1 most important thing above all else is getting a great tow truck driver. Danny really took the time and never got impatient about anything. Note to self: contact towing company tomorrow and let the owner know what a great guy he's got working for him.

We ended up using two 4 x 4 x 48 pieces of lumber he had on the truck to extend the bed on the Low Boy. He also let me drive the front of the roadster partway up the flatbed to get a good angle for hooking up his cable and not damage the body. Even still we barely made it on to the truck without dragging the rear quick jacks on the ground. I was able to pull up the rear of the car up just enough as he pulled it up on the bed. I just looked at the photo again - I will be cutting down the rear quick jack stand offs to tuck them in closer to the body. Might help.

My tire failure is a complete mystery to me. We were on the 405 freeway and had just transitioned onto the 101 freeway when my car started tracking funny. Brand new asphalt so I though for a second it was due to the new asphalt but it quickly got worse so we limped it to the first off ramp. No shoulder on this section of freeway. By the time we came to a stop the tire was ruined. Fortunately no visible wheel damage but what became instantly obvious was that my wheel stem is missing. I just finished cleaning everything and I checked the tire for any nails or screws and there is none. The only way the tire could have gone flat this quickly is from the missing valve stem. The tires are barely 2 year old Nitto NT555 with 1100 miles on the roadster.

Has anyone ever seen a wheel throw a valve stem? The tow driver says he has never seen this. Even on tires that come completely apart where it was driven on the rim he says the stem stays in place.





Attached Images
File Type: jpg Low Boy (1).jpg (249.6 KB, 644 views)
File Type: jpg Wheel.jpg (245.2 KB, 491 views)
CDXXVII is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 01:55 AM
Senior Member
 
Derald Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 2,395
Glad that there is no more damage than a tire.

Are these the FFR rims ????

If so, a while back, I remember some reports that the FFR rims did not like certain valve stems, and that it took a "special" stem to fit the wheels correctly. I wish that I had some concrete info to pass on, but be sure to check the other stems to see if there are any signs of future problems.

EDIT: I did find these threads
https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...g-special.html
https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...flat-tire.html

Metal stems don't blow out.


Last edited by Derald Rice; 07-10-2017 at 02:09 AM.
Derald Rice is offline  
post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 02:07 AM
Tool Collector
 
frankeeski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The I.E./CA.
Posts: 6,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDXXVII View Post



Fortunately no visible wheel damage but what became instantly obvious was that my wheel stem is missing. I just finished cleaning everything and I checked the tire for any nails or screws and there is none. The only way the tire could have gone flat this quickly is from the missing valve stem.

Has anyone ever seen a wheel throw a valve stem?
Yes I have Marcel. Valve stems from certain Chinese manufacturer's were plagued with this issue. I lost two trailer tires due to this (two different trailers mind you). Have them all replaced.

Frank

Frank
______________________________________________
frankeeski is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 02:25 AM
Husband/Father/Son
 
mrmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 12,452
Valve stems also go bad with age, just ask the guys who were with me at Washington's crossing a few years ago in PA when one let go right after I parked for the day. If that had happened at highway speeds, I might not be here today to be posting about it.


Bill S

Instead of being part of the problem, be part of a successful solution.

mrmustang is offline  
post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 04:10 AM
Senior Member
FFCars Major
 
Mike D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Phx, Az
Posts: 9,934
I had a flat in a Honda once, changed out to the donut spare only to have the valve stem on it let loose about 30 yards later.
Mike D is offline  
post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 01:02 PM
Cobra Colorist
 
j.miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Temecula Cal.
Posts: 5,632
And I thought that kind of stuff only happened to Bill Dobins ! Glad it's limited to the tire and sorry for your trouble...da bat

Drink me handsome and take me home....Bartender, I'd like to buy the little lady a drink...better make it a double.
j.miller is offline  
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 01:34 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
HealeyRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MA Northshore
Posts: 1,129
HealeyRick is online now  
post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 02:17 PM
Well Used Member
 
Boat737's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: So. Bay (So. Calif.)
Posts: 217
Hi Marcell. Last year when I went to have my Nitto's mounted at America's Tire, I noticed that it looked like the FFR supplied stems might not fit the FFR supplied wheels. I asked the tire guy at about it at the time, and he pulled out new stems from his stock. At first glance, they looked the same, but closer inspection showed a wider seating area. Very subtle, but when he tried to seat the FFR stem, it didn't seat in the hole all the way. The rim aluminum was wider than the seating slot on the stem. I went with the America's Tire brand stem. The FFR stem is on the left, the America's Tire stem on the right.

When you take tire off the rim, see if the inner/fat part of the stem is in there (came apart), or if the whole stem blew out.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0633 small.jpg (126.4 KB, 90 views)
Boat737 is online now  
post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 02:39 PM
FFCobra Craftsman
 
CraigS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blacksburg, Va
Posts: 22,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boat737 View Post
Hi Marcell. Last year when I went to have my Nitto's mounted at America's Tire, I noticed that it looked like the FFR supplied stems might not fit the FFR supplied wheels. I asked the tire guy at about it at the time, and he pulled out new stems from his stock. At first glance, they looked the same, but closer inspection showed a wider seating area. Very subtle, but when he tried to seat the FFR stem, it didn't seat in the hole all the way. The rim aluminum was wider than the seating slot on the stem. I went with the America's Tire brand stem. The FFR stem is on the left, the America's Tire stem on the right.

When you take tire off the rim, see if the inner/fat part of the stem is in there (came apart), or if the whole stem blew out.
Is this yet another example of chinese crap that is close but not right? Or are there maybe stems for steel wheels (thinner) and alloy wheels which are thicker?

FFR 5353K, 408W, TKO 500, 2015 IRS w/ 315 gear, Breeze QA1 DA coilovers front and rear, APE hardtop, Forte front swaybar
CraigS is offline  
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 03:39 PM
Well Used Member
 
Boat737's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: So. Bay (So. Calif.)
Posts: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
Is this yet another example of chinese crap that is close but not right? Or are there maybe stems for steel wheels (thinner) and alloy wheels which are thicker?
I'm guessing the Chinese thing. They had the same basic part number (TR413 or something like that, I can't find it in my notes or receipts) on each of them.

Boat737 is online now  
post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
CDXXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Clarita / California
Posts: 2,071
Rubber stems

I just got back from Americas Tire. They are claiming that the failed stud is not that uncommon and will not share responsibility for the failure. I'm a bit surprised given they installed their stud on my wheel and the failure is not road hazard related. They were willing to give me a "pro rated" credit for the one tire.

To add insult to injury they no longer have the Nitto NT555 available and the new NT555G2 has a different tread design/performance spec. I get to now purchase a new set of rear tires to replace the set that only had 1100 easy break in miles.

I guess I should count my blessings and give thanks that I am safe and the roadster is undamaged. Not sure that there is a lesson in this.
CDXXVII is offline  
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 08:59 PM
Senior Member
 
bingo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 129
I had the rubber valve stem on the passenger side rear tire collapse into the wheel as I was checking the pressure. Thankfully, the car was in the garage when it happened; all wheels were fitted with metal valve stems shortly thereafter.
347mike thanked this.
bingo2 is online now  
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 09:46 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
Alan_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 1,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDXXVII View Post
Not sure that there is a lesson in this.
There is a lesson in every experience, in this case not a good one. I am surprised as to the attitude of America's Tire dealer. I would write corporate a letter and let them know how your local store handled your valve stem failure. If the tire itself had failed, your road hazard warranty would be in full effect, but because their crappy valve stem failed, you only get prorated adjustment, hmm? I wonder if this is an interpretation on the part of this one store or if it is the chain as a whole. I used America's Tire religiously when I lived in CA and now as Discount Tire here in AZ. Shortly after I started driving my MK4, one of the rear tires lost the bead contact and went flat. Fortunately I was at a slow speed and near home. Just limped back to the house and took the wheel and tire over for repair. They completely separated the tire from the rim and checked everything in order to make sure it did not happen again and it never has. The local manager always treated me like a king because of the Cobra whether I was driving it or one of our daily drivers.

Just a thought, not sure what your driving habits are like, but maybe this is an opportunity to upgrade to the NT05 or NT01?

I only have 3500 miles in three years on my Kumho XS tires, but their nearing their end of life on age. I will likely change them next year and I will closely look at the manufacture date for the new donuts. Turns out, my rear tires were already 5 years old when the tires were mounted and the front 2 years yet both were bought within 6 months of mounting them. For me, this redefines what "new" means, I would like to see a definition from the dealer. If tires are end of life at 10 years no matter what, then they should discount them prorated for every year they sit on the shelf IMO.

Alan

Last edited by Alan_C; 07-11-2017 at 05:50 PM.
Alan_C is offline  
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 10:27 PM
Master Builder
FFCars Craftsman
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Holbrook ,N.Y.
Posts: 1,243
Get the Metal bolt in stems !!!!!!!!!!!!

Kenny
first time builder is offline  
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 11:14 PM
Well Used Member
 
Boat737's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: So. Bay (So. Calif.)
Posts: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDXXVII View Post
I just got back from Americas Tire. They are claiming that the failed stud is not that uncommon and will not share responsibility for the failure. I'm a bit surprised given they installed their stud on my wheel and the failure is not road hazard related. They were willing to give me a "pro rated" credit for the one tire.

To add insult to injury they no longer have the Nitto NT555 available and the new NT555G2 has a different tread design/performance spec. I get to now purchase a new set of rear tires to replace the set that only had 1100 easy break in miles.

I guess I should count my blessings and give thanks that I am safe and the roadster is undamaged. Not sure that there is a lesson in this.
Just for grins, see if Discount Tire Online has them. I think Discount and America's tire are sister companies, but I remember they did not carry the same tire when I bought mine.
Boat737 is online now  
post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-11-2017, 02:38 AM
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
Alan_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 1,550
Discount Tire is the parent company of Discount Tire Direct and America's Tire. America's Tire is CA only because a competitor was already using the name when they expanded into CA.

Alan
Alan_C is offline  
post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-11-2017, 05:24 PM
Senior Member
 
bulldog302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 408
I agree with Alan_C. It's time for a letter to corporate. Did this happen after you left us Saturday morning? Glad this turned out to be minor. Could have been much worse.
bulldog302 is offline  
post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-11-2017, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
CDXXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Clarita / California
Posts: 2,071
Supercar Sunday

I was on my way to Supercar Sunday the next morning. I had just transitioned to the 101 freeway with my foot into the throttle when it let loose. Tire goes flat in a hurry when there's a 1/2 hole in the wheel. The roadster got really unstable fast. I got it off the freeway safely but it was a bit scary and unpredictable. I'm really happy the tire stayed intact.

Contacting customer service is a joke. I did not realize America's Tire is Discount Tire. I am going to work my way up the ladder primarily because of how poorly they are handling it. So far it's been impossible to speak with a "manager". Nothing more than a big box store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog302 View Post
I agree with Alan_C. It's time for a letter to corporate. Did this happen after you left us Saturday morning? Glad this turned out to be minor. Could have been much worse.
CDXXVII is offline  
post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2017, 01:02 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
CDXXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Clarita / California
Posts: 2,071
What lead to my being towed home

So far both of my rear tire stems failed. We will find out about the fronts tomorrow.

The cause is a combination of issues.

The stem that caused my flat broke in two. Only the mushroom head remained in the tire but from there the Manager at Americas Tire was able to confirm that it was a Chinese stem which apparently should not be used.

The second stem upon inspection was going to fail soon as well. This was due to incorrect installation. Installation in the Factory Five wheels require extra attention. I am not the first to experience this and the response I received from my call to Factory Five is the same I found from another tech on a different thread.

The problem with the Factory Five wheels is that due to the lip thickness a recess is designed into the wheel to allow the stem to sit deeper in the lip so that the remaining thickness allows for a proper seat. The problem is that the recess in the rim is not wide enough. When the installer tries to install the stem in their normal fashion the mushroom portion tends to not seat properly. In fact, in my case part of the mushroom was pulled into the smaller opening creating a stress point.

For our wheels the installer needs to used the correct stem but also use plenty of lube during installation. It is also important for him to massage the mushroom head into the recess and make sure that it is properly seated. He may have to twist/rotate the stem to make sure that it is not partially pulled through the smaller opening.

At home I highly recommend that you gently pull the stem back and forth and inspect for any cracks and to see that it is actually seated properly. It is a really cheap fix compared to replacing tires and a tow.

This is the correct stem and also a picture of my wheel recess. I am also a bit concerned by how rough the opening is but I was told by Factory Five that this is normal.

The metal studs that were available at Americas Tire will not work. As is the problem with the rubber stems, the recess is not wide enough and will not let the metal stud seat properly.





Attached Images
File Type: jpg Stem Side.jpg (255.7 KB, 332 views)
File Type: jpg Stem Part Number.jpg (197.1 KB, 328 views)
File Type: jpg Wheel Stem Recess.jpg (194.6 KB, 328 views)
CDXXVII is offline  
post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2017, 01:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: O'Fallon, Missouri
Posts: 183
So did FF tell you if they ever started sending the correct stem with the wheels? Or did they correct the wheel with the new manufacture. If I remember correctly they changed just before my kit. My kit number is 8647 delivered on 7-18-15.
Tony_G is offline  
post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2017, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
CDXXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Clarita / California
Posts: 2,071
Wheels

My understanding is that Factory Five no longer provides stems with the wheels. That is a great move given how long some of us take to build our cars. Also, kind of pointless to provide stems given how cheap they are and also the fact that many tire places will only install their new rubber stems for liability reasons.

I believe the recess in the wheels is the same today as it was when I got my kit back in 2011. The other thread linked earlier references issues with 18" Factory Five wheels which I believe were introduced last year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_G View Post
So did FF tell you if they ever started sending the correct stem with the wheels? Or did they correct the wheel with the new manufacture. If I remember correctly they changed just before my kit. My kit number is 8647 delivered on 7-18-15.
CDXXVII is offline  
post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2017, 02:12 AM
Member
 
Joe7441's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 37
When I dropped my wheels/tires off the tech asked what they were going on because he figured it was something special (Halibrand replicas). When I got back he pointed out the metal bolt-in valve stems with the comment that he "upgraded them free of charge, you're going to need them in that." Nice guy.

Never had an issue with them, though my rears did both go flat on my Tail of the Dragon trip. Noticed it before I got on the road thankfully. Pumped back up, still at good pressure many many months later.
Joe7441 is offline  
post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2017, 02:19 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: O'Fallon, Missouri
Posts: 183
Well crap.... Mine came with stems and that is what was installed.
Tony_G is offline  
post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2017, 02:26 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
CDXXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Clarita / California
Posts: 2,071
Inspect Your Stems

If you gently pull your stem from side to side and front to back it should be pretty easy to tell if they are seated correctly. Also check for any cracks in the rubber. Anything that does not seem uniform all the way around should be checked out. Might be good practice to inspect them when you check tire pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_G View Post
Well crap.... Mine came with stems and that is what was installed.
CDXXVII is offline  
post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2017, 02:37 AM
FFR 7469
FFCars Craftsman
 
PhoneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 551
ARGH, now I have to worry about this until I get these darn little things replaced.

Glad that you are ok Marcel - it could have been much worse.
PhoneGuy is offline  
post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2017, 03:29 AM
Geek
 
ram_g's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,635
Just checked my stems. All seem properly and uniformly seated with no cracks. My 15" FFR Halibrand style wheels did not come with stems - these are ordinary rubber ones from Discount Tire.

Speaking of which I notice that reported issues to date seem to revolve around the 17" and 18" wheels. Are the 15" ones not affected? That would be nice if true!

FFR Mk3.1 #6720. Carb'd 302. Fun.
ram_g is offline  
post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2017, 03:51 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
CDXXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Clarita / California
Posts: 2,071
Example of a Bad Stem

I just looked through my pictures on my phone and found this one of the rear tire.

Things to look out for. Had I paid attention I would have easily identified these deficiencies.

Notice that it is not fully seated.

Also, Notice that there is a crack in the rubber.

The manager almost sheared this one while gently inspecting it after the picture was taken.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bad Stem.jpg (236.7 KB, 301 views)
CDXXVII is offline  
post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-15-2017, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
FFCars Master Craftsman
 
CDXXVII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Clarita / California
Posts: 2,071
Update

So everything is back to normal.

The manager at the local store accepted responsibility for the rear tire failure and due to the fact that they could not get a Nitto NT 555 they replaced the pair. I opted to go ahead and purchase a set of fronts to match at a fair price.

Just as an FYI and to reiterate what I stated earlier - I had one stem that failed completely and the remaining three were improperly installed. I can't emphasize enough that direction needs to be shared with your tire shop concerning our wheels.

I took the Nitto NT555 G2's out today for a 60 mile cruise and they do drive better than my older set. One thing to note is that the tires are definitely a bit narrower than my previous set of same size tires.
CDXXVII is offline  
post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-15-2017, 05:24 PM
Senior Member
FFCars Craftsman
 
DadofThree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tybee Island, GA
Posts: 1,248
Glad it is back to normal
DadofThree is online now  
post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-15-2017, 07:50 PM
Senior Member
 
roadscholar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bonita, CA
Posts: 126
Quick Jacks

Marcel,

I can see in the photos that your quick jacks hang lower than mine. I use the FF supplied steel plates and had them powder coasted. Because of where the holes are in those plates they sit about 2 inches higher.

My FF wheels were some of the first off that really sssslllllooooowwww boat from China, they didn't come with stems. Sounds like that is a good thing.

John
roadscholar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome

 

Welcome to FFCars! The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the FFCars.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Factory Five Racing, Inc. or Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by FFCars.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Factory Five Racing, Inc. or Ford Motor Company for any purpose. "FFR", "Factory Five", "Factory Five Racing", and the Factory Five Racing logo are registered trademarks of Factory Five Racing, Inc. FFCars.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting the FFCars.com Forum dedicated to Factory Five.