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Legendary Motor Cars Ford GT Episode

3K views 30 replies 28 participants last post by  steno 
#1 · (Edited)
A new episode of Legendary Motor Cars aired the other night focusing on the sale of two Ford GTs. In one of the sales, the buyer was attempting to trade in two cars, one of which was a Factory Five MK3 as best I could tell. The car looked beautiful, dark blue with lighter blue ghost stripes. The build quality looked good with a 408 stroker for a power plant. The owner explained to Peter Klutt that he had paid $50K for the car. Peter then systematically started to explain all the things that were wrong with the car as compared to an original 60's Shelby Cobra. I was a bit offended at first, but then began to realize just how different the factory five product is from the original. Peter described the factory five as more of a restomod or hot hod, not a true replica like the Superformance Cobra. I get that to a point, but I think Peter also misses some of the virtues of our cars as well. Peter freely admitted that he had not driven one of the factory five cars on a track, maybe if he had he would have a better opinion of one. Peter placed a value on the car in the $25K to $35K range, what I thought was highly under valued. I wish I had more details of the car to better assess the cars reasonable sales value. He took the in trade only on consignment, he would not buy it directly for resale. I believe Peter said the car was sold for something closer to the $35K number. I was wondering if others had seen the episode and what their feelings were regarding the low opinion that Peter had for the factory five cobra replicas?

Thanks,

Alan
 
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#3 ·
Did he (Peter) mention Superformance by name?

I've found that, amongst Cobra enthusiasts that have replicas, Superformance is regarded in the same way as 911s are regarded by Porsche enthusiasts. In the Porsche community, 911 owners look down upon 928, 944 and 924 owners. The 928 owners look down upon the 944 and 924 owners and so on. Actually, the 924 owners look down upon the 944 owners.

Not to derail this into a Porsche conversation but to illustrate the point that there are "breed snobs" in every group.
 
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#4 ·
I'd imagine, based on the cars he deals in, a replica would have to be high end and super accurate. FFR replicas are neither. Don't get me wrong...I saw that episode and was a little miffed too, but he's spot on. I'd love to see him take a properly prepped FFR on track though. :beer:
 
#5 ·
Given all that was said in that episode, I don't think I would have relied on Peter to sell my FFR - if you don't think the vehicle is worth much, that attitude comes through in how you present the car to potential buyers. Just my two cents.
 
#7 ·
Lots of talk and noses out of joint on the other site:

Legendary Motorcars - Georgetown, Ontario Canada

As I said in that thread he's a used car salesman and the value of ANY vehicle to a used car salesman is totally different depending upon whether they are trying to buy it or sell it.

BTW, you want to really get a Porschphile's blood pressure up? Refer to a 914 as a Porsche :evil:

Jeff
 
#16 ·
Jeff, as the owner of 914, I love to point out to my snobbish 911 customers, that of all the porsches I have owned over the years (well over 20 different ones) the 914 is my favorite to drive and the only one I have as a "keeper".

Blows their minds, that I've had nice 911s and sold them all because I got tired of them,,,,,but always enjoy the 914.

As far as the Peter Klutt dude is concerned, it's just another bs car show, and the guy has been hanging out with the 1 percenters a little too much.

The last few FFRs I built that were "sold" to second owners, went for over 50k by the way.:smile2: When you build 'em right, with proper attention to detail,,,,they will bring proper $$$$.
 
#8 ·
He actually mentioned several other "replicas" as being better - Superformance, Kirkham, ERA, Contemporary - just the ones I remember from the conversation - not that I think they are "better" in many ways. He also (and correctly I think) mentioned that the quality of the build really depends on the individual builder and that if he knew who built it, he could put a more accurate price on it... let's face it, there are certainly some builds of FFRs that are a "higher quality" build than others. He mentioned the rollers were more standardized in that they came from a factory that assembled them, not someone building it in their own shop.
I know he has seen more than a few originals along with continuation cars and the aforementioned Superformance, Contemporary, Kirkhams and ERAs as he has a few in his showroom.
I was a little "miffed" at his downing of the FFR at first as well, but he IS a used car guy - buy low, sell high right?
 
#10 ·
Unfortunately no, the episode is from season 3, not available from their web site for on demand viewing as yet. Some cable/satellite providers have view on demand, or wait for a rerun.
 
#11 ·
I watched the episode and as being a Factory Five Cobra owner was a little miffed that as he stated he's never driven a FFR Cobra replica, how can he state what the Cobra in question value was. Ok granted our replica aren't identical to a original Cobra, but that's why they are replicas!
And he is correct as it all depends on the build quality of a replica that greatly make a difference on the price. Hell, look at the FFR Cobras that Edward had build and his new 20th anniversary build, they are top notch. What would Peter say about those?

I hope Peter can realize not everyone ( like myself ) can afford a original Cobra, all though I wish I could.
 
#13 ·
I take Peter and his son and a lot of other car shows with a grain of salt. As Jeff said, they are used car salesmen. I find it amusing that Peter seems to think that a Superformance is something other than a replica.

I friend told me one day that he couldn't stand watching "Fast and Loud". I told him don't take it too seriously, it's a comedy.

John
 
#17 ·
I guess I have a different take.

My car isn't a Cobra, but the layman can be forgiven for mistaking it for one. Experts would never make such a mistake, and that's OK.

You see, building a car is something I've known I've wanted to do for 15 years. And if you're going to build a car, you might as well build a cool one. Is there any self-built car cooler than an F5 Roadster? (that's rhetorical guys :wink2:)

My car is not for sale - and yet it's always for sale. If some yahoo decides he wants my car for $100k, it's his (or hers). I've already had $100k worth of fun getting it to the roller stage, and I know damn well I'll get just as much fun building another. And if some other yahoo braves the DC area traffic to offer me $35k for my car - well, that's just 2 hours of his life he'll never get back.

Some people collect stamps; some people grow extraordinarily large pumpkins ... I'm building a car. My car isn't a Cobra, but like the original builders I'm putting everything I have into making my car the best it can be.


John
 
#18 ·
I saw this episode also, and, also was miffed at Peter. Esp when he said that Factory Five was at the bottom of the kit car list. Several other things in the two episodes I watched were interesting, like the GT40 and the real Cobra. But he really ticked me off about Factory Five.
 
#19 · (Edited)
If you missed the episode or want to watch it again. They always rebroadcast it again either before or after the new one. So look it up on your viewing guide this coming Tuesday evening. Klutt is both right and wrong in his assessment of the FFR. As others have said, he is a used car dealer albeit the high end. As for the Superformance cars I have seen their production on another show. Not what I expected for what Superformance charges for their cars.
 
#20 ·
If you missed the episode or want to watch it again. They always rebroadcast it again either before or after the new one. So look it up on your viewing guide this coming Tuesday evening. Klutt is both right and wrong in his assessment of the FFR. As others have said, he is a used car dealer albeit the high end. As for the Superperformance cars I have seen their production on another show. Not what I expected for what Superperformance charges for their cars.
I think I saw that same show. One of those "super car" or whatever shows where they go into the factory and follow them being built. It was interesting, but I agree, not exactly what I expected. BTW, it's Superformance.
 
#22 ·
I think he was speaking mostly from an "originality" and a resale perspective. He kept saying that things were "not correct" and he was right about all of them. He said that other manufacturers are "more correct" and he is right about that as well. He said that quality can vary greatly on these cars compared to others that come as rollers, and he is right. He said these are more of a hot rod than pure, accurate replica, and that is true. As far as resale goes, they can be tough to sell. The buyer has to know what he is looking at and be well informed and like exactly what the builder did to the car. I do feel that the FFR frame/chassis deserves a lot of credit though. He didn't hurt my feelings, I am proud of the FFR I built, but I know what it is and what it isn't.
Doug
 
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#23 ·
I live very close to their shop - they're actually in Milton, not Georgetown and I've visited a few times to see what they have in their showroom.

They have some really cool cars and to top if off - the last time I was up they had 2 original cobras and a Factory Five. The originals were priced at $300k and $500k if memory serves me right and the Factory Five was around $50k, so anyone with half a brain who is not just a navel-gazing fantasizer but is genuinely interested in owning one of these cars can see there is a choice to be made between the $300+k original version or a hand-built custom replica costing a mere fraction.

Of course, the ignorant snob will scoff at a $50k Factory Five or even a $150k Superformance version saying "it's only a kit car" and "it's not the real thing" but to trash the car and the brand on TV makes Peter Klutt no different than a cheap used car salesman lowballing the trade-in. Very sad that he has such an opinion of the Factory Five even though he's never actually driven one !!

Maybe I should drive up there and invite him to take a cruise with me ? Oops, forgot, this would be beneath him !
 
#25 ·
saying "it's only a kit car" and "it's not the real thing" but to trash the car and the brand on TV makes Peter Klutt no different than a cheap used car salesman lowballing the trade-in. Very sad that he has such an opinion of the Factory Five even though he's never actually driven one !!
While his points were accurate, it almost seemed like he was tactically attacking the FFR for some unstated reason; went beyond what was necessary to belittle the FFR. Kinda made me question his motive knowing this would reach a very wide audience on television. Appeared to me to be a personal and specific attack against the FFR brand.
 
#28 ·
I saw the show last week and felt disappointed with his comments as well, but I figured this guy is a used-car salesman dealing primarily with high-end originals. It's really not in his best interest to work with replicas, clones, tributes, whatever. If the client wasn't a good customer and wasn't trying to upgrade to a GT, I doubt Peter would have even talked to him.

I also think that a ride and visual review of a mk4 may improve Peter's perception. (that particular FFR was a nice build but wouldn't have been my choice either).
 
#29 ·
Well there is some obvious differences in opinion regarding the FFR builds. Barrett-Jackson showroom has a Type 65 for $65K, even with a Chevy motor and an auto trans.
 
#30 ·
It is still all Reality TV. Need I say more?

The reality is that Factory Five enabled a pretty ineffective automotive enthusiast to build a car that turns heads and makes kids smile 77,000 miles and 10 years into the adventure.

I'll bet the average annual mileage on ALL the originals COMBINED is less than 3 miles per year and the average TOTAL mileage on previously owned SPFs for sale is less than 3,000 miles..... total. The level of investment automatically limits the use except for the most diehard owners. Opinions May Vary.
 
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