2014 mustang electronic steering rack ? - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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2014 mustang electronic steering rack ?

Has anybody thought about using a 2011-2014 mustang electronic power assisted steering rack on their Roadster or coupe ?
It seems to me that the new racks would be a great way to go with out having to use a unisteer or a unit from a vue or equinox. I made contact with the guy on ebay , from Poland that make the variable adjuster for the equinox eps and he is not ready to try and figure out how to wire it up. I found a 2014 mustang eps rack on ebay for less than $ 200.00. If someone from this forum could figure out how to make a control box for these racks, it would be a great option for power steering.

Anybody here up to the challenge ? I would buy the rack and have it sent to somebody that feels they could figure out the wiring to make it work.

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 12:29 PM
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Looking at the mounting ears on the rack you would be in for a ton of work. The usual rack nestles down between two ears and the bolts are horizontal. That rack has long extensions toward the rear of the car and the bolts are vertical. Not sure it is worth the effort. There are couple guys here who are doing an EPS where there is an assist motor in the steering column. There is also Fast Freddies electro-hydraulic PS system which quite a few have installed. Either of these would be way easier.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks CraigS, I am actually trying to develop this steering for a project that I have underway. I already have a design for how it will mount to my chassis and in a location that virtually eliminates any bump steer with out any mods to the tie rod ends .....

I am looking for someone that is good with electronics and schematics that could figure out the bypass that would allow this electronic assisted powers steering rack to be used just as the system that is used on the equinox or Saturn Ion ,

Maybe I should try Bruno from Poland again and see if he would change his mind.

Any help with this project would be greatly appreciated !
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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The gentleman from ebay that has developed a small electronic system to allow the use of the Saturn electric assist power steering has figured a way to make the system only use the signal coming from his potentiometer . The system can be adjusted to give no assist at highway speeds or dialed to give incremental increases in assist for city driving or parking.

This is the ebay listing link : Saturn Vue ion Chevrolet Equinox ? Electric Power Steering Controller Box ? Epas | eBay

I am looking for someone that can do the same procedure to make the ford epas work on street rods, replicas and others....

I thought I would start here on this forum due to the fact that I see a great amount of talent and ingenuity from the post I find here. I bet there are more than a few electrical engineers here . I am just hoping one of you guys would be willing to develop this system for me, with me . I see a real potential for this to be used in street rods, replicas and one off customs.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijeertbarc View Post
The gentleman from ebay that has developed a small electronic system to allow the use of the Saturn electric assist power steering has figured a way to make the system only use the signal coming from his potentiometer . The system can be adjusted to give no assist at highway speeds or dialed to give incremental increases in assist for city driving or parking.

This is the ebay listing link : Saturn Vue ion Chevrolet Equinox ? Electric Power Steering Controller Box ? Epas | eBay

I am looking for someone that can do the same procedure to make the ford epas work on street rods, replicas and others....

I thought I would start here on this forum due to the fact that I see a great amount of talent and ingenuity from the post I find here. I bet there are more than a few electrical engineers here . I am just hoping one of you guys would be willing to develop this system for me, with me . I see a real potential for this to be used in street rods, replicas and one off customs.
Hoping to get some feedback !
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 09:45 PM
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Very interesting idea. I would take a cracked at it but I just don't have time at the moment.

It can't be that hard. How many wires are on the plug on the rack? Lemme contact a friend and see what I can find out about the factory harness and if that control is part of the BCM or ECM
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks SVTFreak, I know that the rack is connected to a harness that runs to the BCM but I can not find a schematic for the rack and the 2 connections on the rack . Any help would be great !!!
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 02:47 AM
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I've got a friend that I think has the diagram for 2015 mustangs. Gonna email him and ask. Not sure that'll be any good but it's a start.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 12:39 PM
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I've look at the 2011 wiring diagram. It is simple:
. ground
. battery power 100A
. switched power 5A
. A twisted pair connecting to PCM/ABS/RCM network.

If the unit can work without the Network connection, it would be great.

For 200$. its worth trying.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I've look at the 2011 wiring diagram. It is simple:
. ground
. battery power 100A
. switched power 5A
. A twisted pair connecting to PCM/ABS/RCM network.

If the unit can work without the Network connection, it would be great.

For 200$. its worth trying.
Do you by any chance have a digital copy of the wiring schematic that you could share with me ? Your correct, well worth a good try if I have a wiring diagram .

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totem View Post
I've look at the 2011 wiring diagram. It is simple:
. ground
. battery power 100A
. switched power 5A
. A twisted pair connecting to PCM/ABS/RCM network.

If the unit can work without the Network connection, it would be great.

For 200$. its worth trying.
Do you by any chance have a digital copy of the wiring schematic that you could share with me ? Your correct, well worth a good try if I have a wiring diagram .
I have it. It's at my work email and I'll be there later tonight.

Just as I suspected. Only thing needed is to know what signal drives it from the BCM on 2015's and emulate that. The rest is simple connections.

I hope it's:
Easy way: BCM puts out a voltage that controls, usually 0-5.

Hard way: BCM puts out a frequency that controls it.

Note that 2015 changed the way the cars ran drastically. Likely not the same.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 06:46 PM
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I hope it's:
Easy way: BCM puts out a voltage that controls, usually 0-5.

Hard way: BCM puts out a frequency that controls it.
None of the above. It's CANBUS digital multiplexed network bus. Service manual says it uses vehicle speed to adjust assistance. Without speed info, it revert to a nominal assistance. If there is a failure, it reverts to manual steering. If is a powersteering failure, I understand. If its a communication failure, its probably safer to maintain some assistance. Hopefully, Ford engineers think to same.

mjeertbarc, check your PM.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 09:18 PM
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Well then, canbus is outside of my knowledge. The BCM would take speed and set the output assistance. A set to use this wouldn't require that, but would lose the speed adjustments. A signal could be fed to it. But, being canbus, that's outside of my ability or knowledge to create it.

Here is the 2015 wiring diagram. I wouldn't imagine the rack itself changed. Looks very similar to what was described above. Just need to figure out how to feed a created canbus signal into the two inputs for it. I know a guy that knows a guy but may be awhile before I can catch up with him. I'll see him when I dyno my 2015 but I got lots of tuning to do first.

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks SVTFreak ! I have plenty of time to wait on this system to go forward, and I appreciate all the help and comments about the 2011 - 2014 EPAS . I am still working on the final chassis construction. I can still use this rack as a non powered rack while the bugs get worked out of the system. Thanks to everybody for your help !


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Well then, canbus is outside of my knowledge. The BCM would take speed and set the output assistance. A set to use this wouldn't require that, but would lose the speed adjustments. A signal could be fed to it. But, being canbus, that's outside of my ability or knowledge to create it.

Here is the 2015 wiring diagram. I wouldn't imagine the rack itself changed. Looks very similar to what was described above. Just need to figure out how to feed a created canbus signal into the two inputs for it. I know a guy that knows a guy but may be awhile before I can catch up with him. I'll see him when I dyno my 2015 but I got lots of tuning to do first.

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 08:48 AM
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 12:27 PM
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Since the 2015 Mustang is an entire new generation, I would be careful thinking that it works the same as a 2011-2014. Could be, but my off the wall guess is that it is different.

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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My Idea is to start with the 2011-2014 units because they are readily available , not too expensive and they give a better road feel than having the assist unit built into the column (the fulcrum unit ). This way the steering feel is solid and the assist is at the final geared extent closes to the wheels.

I figure the Ford engineers have it figured out pretty well ! I just want to simplify the electronic a bit and move into the 21st. century. I am confident that someone can help me figure this out . Once the basics are figured out for these years , I could move forward as the 2015-2016 unit become more available. Thanks to everybody that has helped or given me support so far. This Forum is a great tool and an asset to the custom car industry !


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Since the 2015 Mustang is an entire new generation, I would be careful thinking that it works the same as a 2011-2014. Could be, but my off the wall guess is that it is different.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 11:24 PM
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I have access to Ford's wiring diagrams/manuals, so if you need a specific year diagram (EPAS is in several Fords, so perhaps a Focus or Fusion rack would work/package better) just let me know...

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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 03:57 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Thanks Mustang man

Thanks for the offer Mustang man
Please check your PM's
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-19-2016, 08:15 PM
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I've look at the 2011 wiring diagram. It is simple:
. ground
. battery power 100A
. switched power 5A
. A twisted pair connecting to PCM/ABS/RCM network.

If the unit can work without the Network connection, it would be great.

For 200$. its worth trying.
The 2011-14 Coyote Ford control pack instructions provide a connector specifically for the Network mentionning support for the Electric Power Assisted Steering.

Everything seems to be there to support the electric power steering.
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 04:17 PM
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According to ford tech. line the unit goes into fail safe mode so hook one up without can network wires and see what happends.
post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 02:43 PM
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The 2011-14 Coyote Ford control pack shows a connector for the steering, including CAN bus. I did not see any speed sensor in the system so I guess the PCM is sending a nominal speed signal to the steering box, resulting in some constant level of power assist.

There are CAN boxes that can take an analog speed signal and put it on the CAN bus but they appear to be $hundreds.
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 05:46 PM
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For anyone already running or thinking the AEM Infinity, from their website:
"CANbus support is included for the Electronic Power Assist Steering (EPAS) when using the Ford Racing M-3200-EPAS Boss 302R electronic steering rack, with minor additional wiring."

I haven't looked into it yet since I'm still trying to get my 2015+ engine running on the unit, but that may be something I can look at next - first to get something running and then to figure out what's happening with the control signals

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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 07:22 PM
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Do you know what the width of that rack is measured from inner tie rod pivots? The new Mustangs are pretty wide so the rack may be as well. I would just check the width and what it would do to your bumpsteer before you put too much effort into making the electronics work. If it's too narrow you can fix that with extensions, but if it is too wide then not much you can do unless you want to change the mounting height and get it closer to the upper control arms. (have to modify it at the steering arm as well)

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 07:20 PM
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i plan to pursue the 2010+ ford electric steering from a mustang. Has anyone completed one? Looking for thoughts on mounting, length and length adjustments, etc.

Thanks Dean


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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 03:18 AM
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more people want epas these days, did anyone ever figure out how to get the 2015 Nexteer Mustang EPAS system to work?

It has three wires in the control circuit, the very large power and ground,
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 01:07 AM
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I have a hard copy of the wiring for 2015 the 125AMP power passes thru the battery list box, on the control side there are three wires

those are the ones that we need to figure out how to replicate the signals
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 01:27 AM
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I wouldn't mind looking at the wiring diagram you have.
If I can get my hands on a steering rack any time soon I can take a look at the AEM Infinity side of it and maybe see what CANBus commands it's putting out.

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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 01:24 AM
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It is all in/from the 2015 Mustang Electrical diagnostics book that has EVERY module and EVERY connector.
I need to get the pages scanned, but what I see, knowing enough to be dangerous, and having more than ample parts to play with (only 1 rack though) is that the SCCM the BJB and PSCM are involved. Meaning the signals are in the steering column (not sure what why yet) the HS Can2 + & - wires and then a ground wire go to the connector on the rack, passing "through the Battery Junction Box relays or fuses.... There is something that tells the relay to kick the 125A power on and off. And then something in the CAN HS2 vehicle speed? That I cannot identify as of now.

I mapped all those impacted pages, perhaps best to get me an email to send, it's a lot of pages to post here, maybe more than 20. I also have a Corvette C7 rack, and much less information, I've not seen the same kind of diagnostic books from GM, and GM was behind, the ST Wheel rotational controls are in the column versus what Nexteer shows as theirs being in the rack itself.
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