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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
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Looking for Guidance on Door alignment

I got the doors on today and looks like I am going to put filler in more spots than I had hoped. The passenger door fit up quite well, except for one area. The point where the top of the door meets the top of the dash area is VERY low. There really is nothing I can do with the door, as all other parts fit just right. The top of body is fully rested on the dash hoop frame as well.

What do you guy think? Should I pull the boday and try to grind down the frame a bit or just fill it? It will be a lot of filler and change the shape. It is probably 3/8" low at the peak.

Here is a picture. Sorry for the quality. I couldn't find our nice camera.

Thanks,

Larry

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 01:19 AM
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Larry,
You might want to wait untill after you install the windshield. It applies pressure to the cowl and may help your miss alignment. Some times shimming the body at the lower mounting points helps. After I tried all of these I still made up most of the difference with Rage.
Tim


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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks tim. The top of body right near the door is resting on the very edge of the dash hoop, only a few inches from that spot of misalignment. Unfortunately it is not moving without grinding down that hoop / frame.

That is good advise, because that movement will affect my drivers side.

Larry
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 01:31 AM
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Another item that has an effect on cowl shape is the rearview mirror. It's mounting screws pass through the body, through the two white nylon spacers and then tighten into the dash hoop, pulling the center down. Even at that though I still had to build up the upper corners of the doors to meet the cowl, but not 3/8" worth.

Good luck,
Jeff

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 01:44 AM
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Others can correct me if I'm wrong but the body must (underline "must") be mounted, with all mounting points done and with the windshield in place prior to doing any trimming and filling of the doors, hood or trunk. It is surprising how much slight movement in one area can impact another area of the body. For me that also included the mounting of the rear view mirror with the spacers as that can also change the panel alignment.

Now that said, some areas will not line up very well. On mine it was the curvature of the hood and trunk in a couple of places. That was where the rubber bumpers and foam seal came in. File the bumpers down if necessary to the right height, and placed in a couple of spots they help in the panel alignment.

Greg

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 02:05 AM
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All,

Not meaning to hijack this thread but my drivers door lower front corner is about 3/16" too shallow (in, not out) with the other 3 corners pretty well lined up. Of course when I pull this corner out, my upper rear corner is now in too far causing the lower rear corner to come out too far... almost like the door is twisted or warped. I realize I can fill that corner in with Rage when the time comes but are there any other thoughts? Everything is mounted and like I said, it is just one corner, not the entire bottom of the door. Passenger side is almost perfect!

Chris

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 02:16 AM
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Chris,
I had to build up that lower front corner of the driver's door---I think almost everyone does.



The photo also shows how the upper corners required filling to meet the cowl as I mentioned in reply #4.

Get it fitting as well as you can at the other points then start laying on the Rage...

Cheers,
Jeff

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 02:19 AM
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Jeff,

That is it!!!! That picture, minus the fill, is my door! Thanks, that makes me feel better about the entire process!

Chris

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 02:46 AM
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Chris:
Jeff's door looks exactly like mine did. As Jeff said this is pretty common. The filler even looks the same colour.

Greg

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatika View Post
Jeff's door looks exactly like mine did. As Jeff said this is pretty common.
To say the least! These are just two that I knew of right away.

Jon A:


STL-Scott


There are lots of others that look exactly the same...
You've got plenty of company Chris

Jeff


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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 03:23 AM
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Greg

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 03:36 AM
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When fitting the doors you must have the body properly mounted and shimmed. The splash gaurds should be installed. I found 4 washers in back and 3 in front on the DS and one less at each point on the PS was the best compromise on the door fit. Also make sure when trimming the door edges you take material off evenly on the front/rear edge. You don't want to take too much off the rear especially or the edge that holds the weatherstrip will be too narrow.

Someone mentioned dash shape and the mirror. Take a look at this link on the buildsite and see if your cowl/body-dash edge is higher on the passenger side when viewed through the windshild.
http://www.worldisround.com/articles.../photo214.html
See the fix in this link: http://www.worldisround.com/articles.../photo216.html

and the results: http://www.worldisround.com/articles.../photo217.html

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Last edited by Greg_M; 03-09-2010 at 03:42 AM.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 04:35 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the tips guys. I have done some shimming up front. I found later tonight that by shifting the body center to the PS (with all bolts in), it moved everything over about a quarter of an inch and really helped both doors. I still have the problem on the right, but it is down to a quarter of an inch at the worst spot and the overall area is less now. My challenge will be how to hold this side to side movement. It wants to move pretty easily. I am thnnking that a couple of screws into the rails in the hood gutter should hold it. the mirror screws should do it as well. I intend to shim under the mirror so that it doesn't press down on the body and change the shape. I have also pressed all across the area where the windshield goes without much deformation of the door area. I will get everything on before I start filling and sanding.

Greg, did you shim the bolts on the sides of the body? Is that what you were referring to? I didn't think of that, but is a good idea. I will try that tomorrow. Also, I reviewed your whole build site (great for us new guys). I looked very closely and cannot see what I saw in your pictures on the top of the dash. I did shim it up maybe a 1/4", but found the door fit better without it. We'll see if I notice it with the windshield on.

Larry
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 05:31 AM
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Greg, did you shim the bolts on the sides of the body?

Yes I found 4 washers on back two bolts (between frame and body) and 3 on front two bolts on the DS and one less at each point on the PS was the best compromise on the door fit.

Greg

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 02:16 PM
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I looked at my dash line through the windshield this morning and I have the same issue - my PS is about 1" higher than my drivers side....never noticed that before. I'll poke around a bit more to see how the other things (firewall, dash, windshield frame) are fitting before I decide to mess with that or let it go. I didn't think about removing a washer or two to see how that changes my door issue but I think that would help. Thanks for all the advice!

Chris

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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 04:00 PM
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Larry, I've seen where some of the professional builders recommend screws in the hood side rail to tie things in place. I would think it would help getting things back in the same place after multiple removals of the body. And, I would think it would be important to get things back in the same place after all the filling and fitting one must do on the body.

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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 09:57 PM
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Question

Hey guys I just ordered my kit and it will be a while before I get to the body work. I have never done any body work! What is the best type of filler to use on these fiberglass doors and trim?

My Mk3 Kit was ordered Online on February 10, 2010 at 12:35 pm!!!! Estimated Ship Date of 3/27/2010!!!! Delivered 4/11/2010 at 11:30 am!!!!!!!! Still no where close to being finished!!
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2010, 03:42 AM
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Direct answer: Rage and Rage Gold are the most commonly used fillers for FFRs. They cost a bit more but are easy to work and are worth the extra money.

Indirect answer: As you get closer to doing your bodywork, read every post of the "Ask Street Rod Painter" forum within the "Ask The Experts Forum". Take good notes, figure out the sequence, verify this with others. There are a lot of steps and you want to get them right from your initial washing of the body to remove mold wax to the final wet sanding and buffing.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-10-2010, 01:31 PM
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Adding to what DMW said, when you need to build thicker than 1/8", in areas of stress or to fill holes, use some high-strength filler. HS fillers contain fiberglass or kevlar strands. I used Evercoat's brand that came in a big sausage-like tube.

Greg

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Last edited by Greg_M; 03-10-2010 at 02:09 PM.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 10:23 PM
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FF5 Mk3.1 I took to much off door edge how do I fix. I need to add a good 1/8" do I use body filler or fiberglass filler. I just stared back on car after 2 years do to cancer I am right now cancer free. I hope I can finish the car by next spring.
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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Boy View Post
FF5 Mk3.1 I took to much off door edge how do I fix. I need to add a good 1/8" do I use body filler or fiberglass filler. I just stared back on car after 2 years do to cancer I am right now cancer free. I hope I can finish the car by next spring.
First of all, it's good to hear that you have renewed health! Instead of making the door bigger just make the hole smaller. I build in the opening on virtually every car, not due to door size but rather to eliminate the exaggerated radius into the opening however the process and end result is the same:



Oh, and everything I said 10 years ago about building up the bottom corner of the door.... Forget that, there are better ways.

Jeff

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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old Today, 09:42 AM
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Jeff
The body work you've done looks awesome.

Thank you for your help
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