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Coyote vs SBF vs Terminator

28K views 73 replies 37 participants last post by  CHOTIS BILL 
#1 ·
Hey guys,

Looking at the 350-450hp range, I wonder about the opinions of the 3 above motors. Not interested in BBF (sorry BigBlocker). After seeing a member get a low mileage Coyote for $4k, I'm considering it. I know the straight up numbers but wonder about other more subjective issues to include:

1. Ease of install on the Coyote and Terminator. Sergio can you give quick summary of your Term install?

2. Is there enough room to work on the mod motors?

3. How do the power curves work for the Roadster?

4. Sound quality to include a lopey/rich idle tone.

5. Any lesser known issues such as vacuum, EFI tuning, etc.

6. What are the approx full up dressed weights of the 3 motors?

7. Does the OEM Coyote tranny fit the Roadster?

8. Wiring complexity.

I know there are some open ended issues such as cam choice, heads, etc. but I'm looking for your thoughts. Especially interested in what pro builders and multi-builders have to say (Gordon, Mike, Mark..).

Thanks for the read and may the opinions flow!!

Jim
 
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#39 ·
#42 ·
I think it is a personal decision. I bought a Mk 3 with a 4.6 DOHC and it is nice. However I dread the day I will have to work on it. From underneath there seems to be good room but from up top it is tight. The windsors are so narrow in comparison I really wish that is what I had. I wouldn't waste my time on a 302 and go right to a windsor (Well maybe the FRP 363 stroker but that is it). I find my car lacks bottom end power so I will prob add a supercharger to make up for it. All cool but will cost way more in the long run.
 
#44 ·
I wouldn't waste my time on a 302 and go right to a windsor (Well maybe the FRP 363 stroker but that is it).
Little confusing there... I'm guessing you mean "go right a 351"? But to be clear 302's are part of the Windsor family as well. The Windsor engine line started in 1962 with the 221, went through multiple changes to 289, 302, etc. and ran into the early 2000's peaking with the 351.

351's are easy to get over 400HP. But so are 302's especially with the 331, 347 and now 363 strokers that are available. Both are very viable options for these cars.
 
#49 ·
Cuz yer crazy . . .

quote:Doesn't really explain why mine has 705 RWHP....

Cuz you're always way out there, Wayne . . . improvising new ideas and getting it to the ground . . . don't stop now.

Twin turbos feeding a supercharger puts you in a class all by yourself.

Thanks for all your support over the years.

Doc :beerchug:
 
#52 ·
Not to belabor the point but Summit & Jegs, do not sell a "Windsor" engine, they sell a 351W. Every gear head show, magazine, whatever, refers to it as a 351W or Windsor based engine + cubic inch. Windsor is the engine family (221, 302 351) not one single engine.
 
#57 ·
And just wth do you with the "W" stands for????? Windsor maybe??

Get your Summit Racing catalog and have a look to see how many 302 WINDSOR crate motors are listed. Not a single one. I guess some of us can look past that and just call one a 302 and the other a windsor with the 351 implied. Apparently some of us can't and just know what they read in a book.

I'd hate to see what you call this motor because there is nothing Boss about it other than it's name.

Ford Racing Boss 340 HP Crate Engines M-6007-X302E

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6007-x302e/overview/
 
#56 ·
#58 ·
Windsor is just the location where they started production of the sbf. You know, Windsor, Canada (eh).

I always assumed the 351W designation was used to differentiate the engine from the 351C (Cleveland). But what do I know, I missed the whole 60s and 70s thing because I wasn't born yet.
 
#61 ·
Bob Cowan posted "If you're spinning tires in third gear, there's something wrong with your set up. Wrong tires, too much tire pressure, incorrect corner weight, etc. I'm making about 600hp, and I don't have that problem.
There's no such thing as too much power, only not enough control." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to agree with Bob about control, you need to work on your set-up if you are spinning tires in 3rd gear. I can stick 850rwhp with no tire spin at all from 2nd gear up. Over 1000rwhp I have to use 3 gear up at full throttle. Drag radials are a good start for a performance car.
 
#62 ·
2fastCobra, I don't know how you get no tire spin at all in 2nd with 850 rwhp driving on the street. I get tire spin in 2nd on the street with 200 less rwhp. No offense meant, but I bet your leaving tire track marks up close to 100 mph at that power level, not that you're not accelerating like a banshee the whole time. Cheers.

Thomas
 
#63 ·
Thomas, have you added the Competition engineering Anti-Roll Bars to your car yet? Competition Engineering : Product : ANTI-ROLL BARS They are great at helping traction. Along with big drag radials these things will stick your car to the pavement. The Anti-Roll bar was the best thing I have done for my car to aid traction. When I was trying to do a burn out for the photographer at the magazine photo-shoot, my line lock just locked up my front tires and pushed the car all over the place. When I tried dumping the clutch the front tires would just try to lift or just push the car around faster with my front tires locked up. We finally let the tires cool down and put lots of water on the ground just to do a burnout. Now, on cold mornings with cold tires I have problems holding second gear without spinning.
 
#64 ·
Hi Jeff (2 fast)

Do you keep the anti-roll bar connected when driving it on the street?
And if so how does it affect handling ,brakeing etc.

Any idea which Drag Radials for the street that work well with a stick? 275/40-17's would be the size.

Putting together a normally asperated 347 that I hope puts out near 1/2 the hp you do. :D

Brian
 
#66 ·
he is probably spinning the tires, just spinning nice and straight. A lot of times I don't think my car is spinning because the rear end is nice and straight and it feels like I am in a catapult. I look back t the road and I can see long light black marks. The tires were spinning "a little"...
 
#67 · (Edited)
No offense meant to 2fast, imo, he's just accelerating but leaving tire tracks nonetheless. I remember him stating in another thread he was only getting 1,000 miles from his drag radials, that tells me he is spinning. I easily got 7k+ miles from the same tires. I've seen multiple low 8 second cars going down the 1/4 mile strip leaving tire tracks nearly half the way. Cheers.
 
#68 ·
Qwik 1, the anti-roll bar is never disconnected, it has a little play in it and doesn't negatively affect the ride. The only time you can tell it's there is when the rear end starts to squat down or when cornering hard. I like the Mickey Thompson drag radials best but Nittos work well also. Thomas, I don't know how you get such good mileage out of your drag radials. Now, I don't ever let my tires get down to the wear bars in the tires, they just don't look good after that. The Nittos lasted a little longer by a few hundred miles but just didn't hold as well for me. My 740rwhp Mustang would only get 2000-3000 miles but I also used it for some normal driving. When I drive the FFR, I only drive slow to leave the neighborhood then it's 80 percent or more throttle until it's parked. I live out in the county near Moody Air Force Base, and once I hit the main road I can drive 5 or 6 miles in any direction on back roads. So far I have had 70 plus brave riders in the FFR. I bet that's why I only get about 5-6 miles to the gallon.
 
#71 ·
O T (sorry kinda)
Thomas, thanks for vid. OMG!!!:w00t:
2fastCobra, have you ran any 1/4mi. @ the drag strip? Sure your times would be amazing!
Lite to lite,1/8mi., or 1/4mi. times are what I like. Just saying, and again,sorry for O T.
Butch
 
#72 ·
that is almost hard to believe someone can shift a car that fast, with that much power, and stay in control. I wonder why he doesn't have a G force clutch less v box. How much the engine/boost drops off between shifts, I'm sure he can shave off some time.
 
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