EFI Satisfaction Survey / fLEXABILITY OF SYSTEM AND SUPPORT

[mcwho]

Has anyone seen a EFI satisfaction survey here. Some of the systems talked aout here are:

Powerjection III
Megasquirt
Mass Flo
FAST
etc more too

It seems that some guys state if you have good support for the sytem you have its not an issue, I won't know how the support will be untill i've committed. Have been thinking of just going with Holleys but if there is a survey of satisfied users by system Name would like to see. If not I can start one.

Any other systems I should add other that the above list?

[JKleiner]

Originally Posted by mcwho

Any other systems I should add other that the above list?

How about Ford EEC-IV? If you add it to the list you can count me as 99% satisfied.

Jeff

[Bob Cowan]

I think you're right. The more support you can get, the happier you will be. I sruggled with mine for a long time. And then I found a shop with a dyno tuner that knew what he was doing, and is familier with my system. That makes all the diffferance.

Talk to a few shops in your area that do that kid of work. Ask them what systems they're most familier with, and what system they recommend. And I mean actually go down there and have a chat. e-mail and phone calls won't get you the answers you need.

[johntennyson]

Not to hijack, but...

Bob, how did you find your EFI guru? I need one in the SF Bay Area.

Thanks!

[Bob Cowan]

Originally Posted by johntennyson

Not to hijack, but...

Bob, how did you find your EFI guru? I need one in the SF Bay Area.

Thanks!

I did exactly that. I went to a few shops that did dyno tuning. I talked with the shop owners and the tuners. My first choice was a shop I liked, but didn't tune it as well as I would have liked.

Then I took it to Revolutions Performance here in Colorado Springs. Within a couple of hours on the dyno, they had it perfect. It was a whole car after that. Smooth, easy, and a real joy to drive. Once they get done with it, I don't mess with the tune any more.

Whenever I make big engine changes, I go back to the same shop. It usually takes the 30-45 minutes to get it re-tuned. I have an appointment with them in a couple of hours (if it stops snowing). I'm going to get it tuned for E85; something they're familier with.

[mcwho]

I know about the Ford EEC-IV but am not aware of a kit to install it into a new crate engine without diving thru wrecking yards. If someone knows of a source please advise.

I should have stated I am in Florida and will be likely going with a Ford Racing 302, likely the Boss model. Still sounds like a lot of Hocus Pocus if you don't hav a good EFI guy in your pocket. I have read thru the threads on the site and see there are many frustrated users.

I am pretty technically competant, but was considering a system that I could manage myself, if thats out of the question, my decion on whether to go with EFI over carbs may be altered.

My son also talked to me about the Ford system.

[Arrowhead]

I like the Megasquirt, but has it's pros and cons. It's very versatile and you can do a lot with it, but it will be just you building and programming it. There are internet forums that are a great help and the online manual has a huge amount of information (recommended reading even if you aren't using MS).

I've been hearing a lot of good things about the new Holley systems, but I've never used it. I could pretty much replace my MS box for under $1K with one.

[Bob Cowan]

Originally Posted by mcwho

I know about the Ford EEC-IV but am not aware of a kit to install it into a new crate engine without diving thru wrecking yards. If someone knows of a source please advise.

I should have stated I am in Florida and will be likely going with a Ford Racing 302, likely the Boss model.

My son also talked to me about the Ford system.

Take a look at Mass-Flo. Lots of people use it with great success. It uses all Ford parts, including the ECU. No tuning or dyno needed unless you're using a stroker or a wild cam. Then you'll need some tuning. But it would be like tuning any other Ford small block. It's a known quantity that any good shop should be able to handle.

If you buy the motor from Mike Forte, he'll install the system and tune it for you. When you get it you just installl, turn the key, and drive away.

http://mass-floefi.com/

[al r]

X2 on Mass-Flo.
1300 miles on mine so far and I'm a happy camper, Boss 302.
Chris provides great technical support.
my 2 cents
A

[biga_93]

I am running the Ford Anderson Motorsport PMS, which is a piggy-back system. Lots of features but i am not confident in making many adjustments. So my engine is not maximum. I need to get a tuner to (guru) it. I like efi and when it is tunned, it is great. Just my thoughts.

[FUNFER2]

I would like to hear about the stacked Webber type,.... EFI ?

[Bob Cowan]

Originally Posted by mcwho

It seems that some guys state if you have good support for the sytem you have its not an issue, I won't know how the support will be untill i've committed.

This is absolutly correct. If you're comfortable with EFI, you can use almost anything and make it work. If you're not, you need help. Buying into a system that can't help you when you need it is not a good idea.

Haltech is great system. Well designed, well built, lots of choices and features. But, they're in Australia. They're good at answering e-mail, and you can always call them. But sometimes the time difference is a pain.

Megasquirt is pretty slick, too. Lots of features, and very customizable. Pretty amazing what can be done with their system. BUT, it's a project for the bold and experienced users only. It is most definatly not a plug and play affair.

Installation for any system is all pretty much the same. Modify the fuel system. Add the right sensors. Run the wires. Turn it on. If you can build a kit car, you can follow the instructions and get the job done without too much difficulty.

What happens after that, though, is where problems can arise. Some sensors need to be calibrated - usually not a big deal. Some adjustments are needed on the hardware. And sometime you have to trouble shoot problems that arise from a manufacturing error, hardware error, installation error, etc.

And then the car needs to be tuned. That's when the real trouble arises. The ads tell you the system is self tuning - No such thing. The system gets you pretty close, but you need to know what you're doing to get the final tune in. The learning curve can be a little steep, but certainly not unsurmountable.

Here's he steps I would take:

1. Look at all the major players, as you've listed. I would also add BigStuff3 and Haltech.

2. Pick out the features you need, and the ones you want. The self tuning feature is extremely valuable; I wouldn't buy a system that didn't use a wide band sensor. Narrow it down to 2-3 systems.

3. Start calling tuner shops in your area, places with a dyno tuner. Ask them what systems they're comfortable with, and like the best. Pick one of those. Not only will you get a proven system, you'll have a local support system you can take the car to when you're stuck. If you don't know of any, look at some of the racing forums for your area, like NASA and SCCA.

[Gamecock]

I bought the PJIII and had some problems with the startup of the unit. After working through those issues, they Professional Products started a forum for the unit. Got help in tuning it and it runs pretty good.

For example, I had not started the car in 2 months. Had the battery tender on it. Went out yesterday, let it prime and rolled it over several times. 2nd try it fired right up. Took about 20 seconds to smooth out, but it ran great.

The base documentation is pretty lacking in the details to fine tune it if you do not have any EFI expertise, but the forum has several folks that walk you thru it and are a great help.

I would buy it again, but without their fuel pump and filters.
Glen

[Rich A]

EEC-V (EEC-5), 99% satisfied.

[turbodon]

I have the Fast EFI system. I have about 10,000 miles on it now.

1) It is not the auto tune system.
2) It can be programmed and operated with laptop.
3) If your or good with EFI, you may not need dyno time.
4) After dyno time and steady state calibration. The system runs great.

No issues. Great support Forum and great support line.

[trichardson]

I have an Accel DFI Thruster (full system). I haven't fired up the engine yet and I don't plan on doing that on my own. I'll take it to one of Accel's tuners in my area to break it in and tune it. The instructions are terrible. The kit I bought is called the Engine Builders Kit and it includes everything you'd need to convert a carbed engine to fuel injection (intake manifold with throttle body, rails and injectors, fuel pump, distributor, computer, coil, harnesses and sensors, etc...) but each individual piece has it's own instructions written as if it was the only part you bought. There are no kit instructions. For instance, there are instructions for wiring the computer to all kinds of different coils and distributors but it doesn't tell you what kind you got with your kit. The software that comes with it has several built in tunes. The part number that I bought is specifically for a 351W but there isn't a tune for that engine (the one it was designed to fit). There is some OK video on Youtube showing basic tips on installation and tuning but it's very hard to find and wasn't mentioned anywhere in the instructions. Accel's website is terrible (yesterday most of the links were dead) and I haven't been able to find a decent forum to get help. Also, Accel has farmed out their customer service to several shops (one for each region in the US except mine). I've called a couple of them and found them to be eager to get off the phone. They're getting paid by Accel to answer questions but they don't have any compelling reason to help a customer out beyond that. The parts seem to be pretty high quality but I won't know until I've run the engine for a while. Overall I couldn't recommend this kit unless you're having it installed and tuned by a trained tech. There is class you can take (I assume it's open to the public) but it's expensive, infrequent and always held in the upper midwest. I wanted to break in and tune my engine myself but there just isn't enough information available to do that.

[Fred Z]

I have 28,000 miles on my car and have a Mass-Flo system. No issues and it always starts and runs like a dream! Chris has always been available to answer any questions as well as provide help if needed. Would go the same way again with no reservations. Like the throttle body look as well.
Just FYI.
fred z

[cj428mach]

I own a PJ3 on my 69 Mach 1 with a 428cj. It operates ok, but it has its issues that I may or may not be able to get fixed. (its currently on the back burner) I went through the things Gamecock mentioned, ie the crappy fuel system, terrible instructions, and little information on the net. (pre-professional products). It was frustrating but the forum has made it better, its still a little irritating to know that their are known issues with their product but I doubt they'll do an update to their old software on older units.

I also have an EEC setup off a fox body stang adapted to my 351C 4v with a homemade intake and fuel rails. I've had issues getting it sorted out, but I've always been able to find information sources on it cause its 100% Ford. Thanks to EECtuning.org and all the mustang sites I've had everyone of my questions answered. Even though its a 351C being run by the EEC, I could take it to any shop that could work on a 5.0 mustang and they could troubleshoot and tune it. Its had millions of more dollars put into development by Ford than these other companies could ever dream, and will be supported way longer than the aftermarkets as well.

[Rod]

I want to learn about EFI and am still learning. I'll be learning for quite a while. I can recommend a couple of books if you are interested.

Designing and Tuning High-Performance Fuel Injection Systems by Greg Banish. This book is more advanced and is the one I've come to rely on.

Performance Fuel Injection Systems by Matt Cramer & Jerry Hoffman. This is a good book to acquire the basics.

I bought both from Amazon.

I have a Performance Electronics PE3 system. Its not as well known as FAST but is very robust and has a ton of features. It runs my EFI Stack system. Support has been good, they are currently converting my maps so I can install their new firmware and software update.

[DamnYankee]

Last month I bought a PowerJection III system from forum vendor Wayne Presley (VeryCoolParts.com).
Wayne loaded his base tune then shipped it to me. I'm still in go-kart mode, however it started on the first crank and does so each time.
I'm confident that Wayne will provide support down the road, he can even remote tune it !

Ron