Oh Boy, First thread- How much power

[Gordon Levy]

David, around 325hp. Yours is very simular to many of the other packages that are listed. The aluminum head, letter cam packages on stock bottom ends are all going to be 300-340 depending on intake and tuning. To make a jump from there takes a complete rebuild with better cams, pistons, heads, and intakes.
We just dynoed one of our stage 3 306 engines at over 370 RWHP. To get to this takes a significant amount of time and money.

[Rickster]

How about a 351 EFI roller
with:
24lb. injectors
TFS Stage II cam
TFS intake
75mm TB
80mm MAF
4into4's
and both:
GT40P &
AFR185 heads...?

Oh...and how will that cam sound?

TIA!

[ January 21, 2005, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Rickster ]

[Gordon Levy]

Rick, Checking out the TFS cam, are you thinking the 000, 001, or 002?
I wouldn't even concider the gt40P heads at all, they will not work. The AFR 185 or Victor Jr head would work better, my preference is the Victor Jr. You will need 30# injectors, 24's won't keep up at high revs. You will also make more power with a carb, the recommended intake for the best flow would be the Victor 5.0 with the 351 bottom.
Are you keeping the AOD? if you are it will need to be beefed up and a 3000 stall converter used.
Using the Victor Jr heads and victor 5.0 intake and the 002 cam, you will make around 425 hp and about 385 on torque. It will have a pretty flat torque curve and with proper machining and balancing, it should spin to around 6800 revs pretty easily. If you go with a Victor JR intake and a 650 pro carb, you would pick up around 35hp and 30lbft of torque.

[Steven K]

Gordon,

5.0 bored 20 over
GT40P heads
1.6 roller rockers
roller lifters
B cam
Explorer intake
24# injectors

Thanks!

[Gordon Levy]

Steve, 280-300.

[Steve Paepke]

Gordon:
1989 5.0;.030 over; Comp Xtreme Energy 266 hydraulic roller cam W/1.6 rockers; 185 AFR heads with Coast High performace pistons that give a mid 9 compression ratio; performer RPM and a 650 vaccuum secondary Speed Demon; used as a daily driver.
thanks
Steve

[Mike Leaf Fan]

Hi Gord;

I've got a 302, balanced and honed (306?). Eldebrock Perf Alum heads, Ford Motor Sport 1.6 roller rockers(pedestal), FMS X303 Cam. 24lb. injectors and Very Cool Parts Stack Injection system. Can you ballpark me a horsepower figure?
Thx: Mike

[Steve]

Gordon,
I appreciate you taking the time to guestimate HP and torque for me.

.060 over 351W with 4.0 stroke and 6.200 rods with KB319 pistons ( 10:1 comp ) 414 cubes ( my calc ).

Protopline 200cc heads w 64cc chambers( flow very similar to Vic Jrs )

Comp XE284H ( flat hyd cam, 240 x 246 @ .050 and 540 lift )

Victor Jr. intake and a Holley 750 ( vac secondary for now )

FFR 4 into 4 headers and side pipes for exhaust.

Please tell me what you think.

[Gordon Levy]

Steve P- about 350
Mike- 330-350
Wurf- I think a realistic 525 and about the same on torque. You could see as much as 540 with the proper tune.

[Steve]

[img]graemlins/evil.gif[/img] Yes..... the Goodyears will not be pleased heh heh....

Thanks Gordon

[Tom Keiser]

Gordan,

92 302 stock block, iron heads, port matched and smog bumps removed, E-303 cam, Explorer intake, 24lb. injectors, Crane 1.7 roller rockers, 65 TB, 75 ProM MAF, V1-SC Vortech at 6 lbs.

Thanks;
Tom

[Gordon Levy]

Tom, 350 +/-

[StephenP]

This will be my first step up from a 186,000 mile donor that is in the car now - 4000 miles on that one. Mmachine shop to clean & confirm my measurements on the block, new cam bearings and oil/ freeze plugs. If it does not measure up I will debate new short block vs. investing in machine work.

Thanks

I will be putting together:
......
Stock lower 302 (crank, pistons, new bearings & rings)
B303 cam
1.7 rockers
y303 heads (plan to port match to MAC shortie unequals via Felpro gasket)
Explorer intake (to be port matched to TB, in the middle, and to heads)
70mm BBK TB (no EGR)
75MM ProM matched to 24# injectors

Best guess?

[Pathfinder]

Hi Gordon,

How about this one?

347 stroker with cast steel crank, H-beam rods, and forged pistons - 9to1
1992 64cc Trick Flow iron twisted wedge heads with stage II porting
Intake = 263cfm at .5” lift
Exhaust = 209 cfm at .5” lift
Welded and ported GT-40 intake flow tested at 311 cfm per runner average
77mm ProM Mass Air Flow Meter
SVO 36 lb injectors
Crane Cams no. 449601 / Grind HR-224/339-2S-12
Intake lift = 542
Exhaust lift = 563
Intake duration = 224
Exhaust duration = 232
Underdrive pulleys
No smog equipment
MSD 6AL
Standard volume oil pump
TriStates 4x4 headers

The engine was rebuilt and blueprinted in 1992 by Miller Machine in Haverhill, MA. Mileage since rebuilding is estimated at 500.

Soon to have a fine Levy Road Race oil pan.

John Minton FFR4174

[Gordon Levy]

John, If you are using a 75mm t-body I think your power is going to land at 420-435 at the flywheel with 425lbft of torque. If you changed to a Victor Jr carb abd a Holley 650 pro series, you will pick up about 35hp and 30lbft of torque.

[Pathfinder]

Thanks Gordon,

I was told the engine was over 400hp. Nice to hear you agree. And yes the T-Body is 75mm.

John Minton FFR4174

[slocobra]

I would appreciate your opinion/hp estimate on this setup. I am heading to the local dyno as soon as its running and for fun I would like to see how close you are.

306cu
10:1
edl. RPM heads (2.02) very mild clean up
1.6 rr's
comp cams xe282 hyd roller
edelbrock dual quad intake with 500's

Electric water pump/ no powersteering
4 into 4's

Thanks!

[Gordon Levy]

It really depends on the dyno you want me to compare to. There are 3 types that most everyone uses.
Mustang- What most manufacturers use to base there numbers on. For the most parts, they tend to read a little low but are real world with the number
Dyno-Dynamics- One of my favorites to use. Very real numbers. Very simular to the Mustang
Dyno-Jet- I don't have much faith the their numbers. I have only seen 1 or 2 that are calibrated correctly. I see things like a stock Viper putting over 500hp to the rear wheels- I think not.

Now for hp numbers on your engine. I see a couple of things you have to contend with. First is your carberation. That is a great intake to run but it is designed to run over 8000 revs. You are going to hurt on low end torque as well as the lower mid-range. At higher revs, it will come hard but you cam is going to fall off as the intake is really starting to work. To combate some of this, I feel the a couple of 360 Holleys would be a better carb choice. Try it as is, I would be curious on your power curve. If you aren't happy, it can always be changed.

At the flywheel, I think your engine would be capable of 390-405hp with the right tune. Figure 17-22% drivetrain lose on the wheel dyno, you should be between 300-325 at the rear wheels.

A friend of mine has a 67 Gurney Bud Moore T/A Cougar that we use that intake on. On the 289 it is like driving a 2 stroke motor cycle. The revs hit about 4500 and the car really takes off. We shift it at 7800.

[slocobra]

I wish I could use holleys, but they won't fit on the f-28 manifold. I had this engine in my falcon before I took it out. I was extremely happy with the whole setup. The only thing I really changed from the last time i had it running was the cam. It had a smaller custom grind erson cam in it. too bad its a hyd roller, it kind of keeps the shift point low......

thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts

-Brad

[Shep]

Gordon - You were pretty close on the numbers. Your estimate was 260-270 RWHP. Today's dyno run produced 281 RWHP with 322 of torque. Thanks again.

[ March 31, 2005, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: Shep ]

[Gordon Levy]

Sounds like a nice street car, have fun with it.

[Wheels]

Gordon,How about 331,10-1 compression,Eder.2.02 heads,rpm cam & Weber set-up with 44 or 48 mm IDFs, depending on what you think is better,& long tube headers,Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

Wheels, There are several variables that is going to deturnine power. One biggie is cam profile and how hard you want to turn the engine. With a good designed hydraulic roller, you can be in the 400-425 at 6800 revs. If you go with bigger heads and a solid roller cam and rev to 7500, you can make 500-520. I still think you would make more power with a single plane intake and carb. I do know it will drive a lot better.

[Wheels]

Gordon ,I noticed you said not to use hi-vol oil pump,do you just use a stock one ? Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

Small Fords do not like HV pumps and 1 out of 5 will distroy the engine.

[jhilb]

Hi Gordon. Got another for you if you would please... thanks jeff

Ford 302 (5.0) block out of 1991 mustang. Refreshed with all new parts.
Hypereutic Pistons
Stock Rods, ARP rod bolts
Crane Compucam 2031 for use with 1.7 ratio cobra rockers for supercharged applications
1.7 Crane Cams Aluminum Rocker Arms
Edlebrock Performer Aluminum Heads
Ford Graphite Head gaskets and yield-to-torque head bolts
Edlebrock Performer Lower Intake
Edlebrock Performer Upper Intake
Pro-M Bullet Mass Air Flow meter
BBK throttle body
BBK Phenolic 1” Spacer
Crane Double Roller Timing Chain
ARP Bolts used through entire engine
K&N air filter
Powerdyne 6lb Supercharger with blow-off valve
MSD Billet Distributor
MSD Cap and Rotor
MSD 6A Ignition Box

[Joe Campbell]

Me too when you have some time please...Thx.

351W stroked to 395 (4.04 bore, 3.85 stroke)
~9.5:1 compression
Comp Cam XE274H, .519/.523 gross lift, 230/236@.050", 110deg. LSA
1.7 RR
World Products Windsor Sr. iron heads, unported, 2.02/1.6
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
Holley 670cfm Street Avenger
4-into-4's w/ Lobaks.

Oh, and I'm at 4300 ft. altitude!

[billynewk]

Great post!
351w block stroked to 383 inches
Eagle forged crank and H beam rods,
SRP forged pistons 8.3:1
AFR 185 heads
TFS intake
TFS stage 2 cam (224 intake/232 exhaust,.542 in./.563 in.)
Bosch 42# SVO injectors
Pro-M MAF
Aeromotive Fuel rails/regulator
Mac throttle body
MSD Pro-billet Distributor
Crane Hi6 and coil
Crane Gold rockers
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
BBK unequal length headers, J-pipe, and Tri-states auger sidepipes

ATI Procharger P1-SC 11PSI @6000rpm, no intercooler

Tuned by Detroit Speedworks

You do not recommend HV oil pumps? Thought about replace to HV when I install Levy oil pan

[edhunter]

OK, I'm curious too, and thanks to Gordon for speeding his time and brain cells here..
My motor - '84 351W, Hyper flat top pistons +0.060, Comp Cams .512/.512 lift, Stealth intake, stock heads ported and bowl blending with larger valves (1.9/1.6 I think) Holley 750DP carb... Crane HI6 ignition
Any guesses?
thanks again, looking forward to firing motor for first time this weekend!
ed

[Gordon Levy]

Billy, about 550hp-600hp with the right tune. I believe the intake might hurt you a little. Which intake by TFS are you using? I never recommend a HV pump in the windser engines. The drive gear is to small and one out of 5 will distroy the engine.
Ed, about 360hp. I think you are running to much carb for your engine. I think you would be happier and have better throdle responce with a 650 carb.
jhilb, 380-400hp with the right tune
Joe, 450hp at sea level. Best guess would be 385-395hp at your altitude.