428 Upgrade - Head/Cam Suggestions

[AUME2010]

So I love the ridiculous power of my 428 at the low end. Its a monster straight up to 4500 rpm. But. Always a but. It basically cuts out at 4500 and that all shes got. Now that Ive gotten used to driving the car and used to the power I think i can handle a bit more. So I will go the way of just about everyone on these forums and upgrade. So help me spend my money. I love the gearing, so i need to keep something that will let me cruise at 1500+ (55mph) rpm in 5th. I run PS/PB by hydroboost so vacuum is not used for anything major.

Current setup:
Rebuilt in 10' with these items. All machine work done at the time by a local shop. Static comp about 10.5:1, DCR about 8.8:1. I run 93 pump gas in it, buts its so loud i have no idea if its detonating so i definitely want to get a cam with a later IVC angle. Im guessing from seat of the pants and a pretty good amount of guessing that its about 350ish fwhp at 4500 rpm with a little bit left on the table from tuning issues. Cam has a nasty enough idle to satisfy me. I keep the engine at exactly 180*F it never varies.

66' 428 - stock rods - .030 over hyper pistons.
Edit: Almost forgot new scat crankshaft, rotating assm balanced to 8k
66' - C6AE heads - rebuilt stock
CompCam 268H grind cam
268/268 seat duration
.494/.494 lift
60* IVC
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake
Roller rockers
750 QFT Mech Secondary Carb with Annular Boosters
Pertronix Ignitor III Dizzy 14* Idle - 38 ish full

Drivetrain:
IRS
Tremec TKO 600
3.27:1 Gears


Planned Build for this winter:
Im looking for about 450-475 fwhp at 5600 rpm. I feel like 5600 is a pretty safe number for stock components, please correct me if im wrong. I want to keep a nasty idle (obviously, who doesn't). I also am not wanting to spend a small fortune. So here what im thinking.

DSC Powerflow CobraJet heads. From what i can gather these are probably a lot better for the money than the Edelbrocks. Though they are about the same price as stage one Eboks from Keith Craft or DSC.
CompCams XE284H and lifters
284/296 dur at seat
.584/.586 lift
68* IVC

or CompCams 280 Magnum

Im thinking i will carefully port match the intake and heads to the gasket. So are my hoped for power numbers a pipe dream or can they be achieved with this setup. This drops my DCR to 8.3 which from all research should live well on pump gas. Please look over my selections and let me know if im making a gross error anywhere.

Thanks,
Jon

[2FAST4U]

Those changes sound what is needed to get to where you want to be. Good choices

[Don Payne]

You have a fine plan there. Just to mix it up, have you considered a roller? Say a 288R? You would have to change a few things like lifters and valve springs. Not sure if stock heads will support that kind of lift, but hey it would be fun and interesting.

If you don't want to go solid roller you could switch companies and go with say a Crane cam like HR-226/3201-2S-12 for a hydraulic roller. Should be comparable to what you selected but as a roller.

[Racer 28]

I agree with Don, with a Hyd. roller you will not only have more performance but more room to work on your overlap (due to the valve being open longer) to knock that Dynamic down... Example of a build we did not to long ago...

Factory FE Block
Scat Rotating
Crane Hdy. Roller Cam-349971 (IVC 75*) Overlap Seat to Seat 78*
Crane Hdy. Roller Lifters- 35532-16
Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake
Scopion Roller Rockers

Made 450hp@5600 and 480ftlbs@3200

So with better heads like your talking about you should easily see 475hp

[AUME2010]

I was actually leaning towards a hydraulic cam (both for the benefit of not having to swap springs etc during cam break in, and the power). But the numbers in the crane catalog scare me a little bit, their cruise rpm prediction is ridiculous. I don't want a cam that's going to leave me with no cruising power at 1500. Not that a 2700lb car needs a lot of power to stay rolling. Also that cam (according to desktop dyno) peaks out at 6k, thats a bit higher than i really want to spin it. But it is producing 475hp and torque is still good at 5600 so guess it would be good choice, just not sure if the CJ heads can handle springs big enough for that cam.

Desktop dyno seems to be a pretty decent tool, however, im skeptical of its low rpm figures.

Racer 28 do you have the dyno chart for that 428 you built before? Im curious about the low rpm performance of that cam.

Thanks for all the help guys.

[DWIGHT]

I'm a huge Keith Craft fan!

We have 5 or 6 members with his motors, that's the North Alabama Cobra Club. A couple of 408s (525 hp), a 428 stroked to 461 (601 hp) and a 427 s.o. stroked to 487 (620 hp). He is building a Pond block 482 for Coach's new Cobra.
I bought a pair of his heads and a cam to match the parts in my 354 small block stroker. I gained 80 rear wheel horsepower, dyno-ed before and after. I tried two other sets of heads before. Keith is the man!

I would suggest you buy his heads and ask him what cam you need to go with the parts you have. You will not be disappointed. Money well spend in my opinion.

For the past three weeks I have been driving Lainhart's 487. It will lope alone at 1500 rpms in 5th. But when you push the "go pedal" you gone! I've never had the pedal to the floor, don't need to. Well maybe if I was on the airport runway.

There are several great FE engine builders but Keith is close and great service. His prices are fair. Just hard to beat.

Dwight
oh yea roll tide in small letter because I know ya'll are having a bad year, but I still pull for Auburn every week till the Iron Bowl. Got to go Red for that game.
I wore my Auburn sweatshirt to the last car show and a Alabama cap. Got several comments from people.

[AUME2010]

I know ya'll are having a bad year

Thanks for the sympathy, and the advice. Ill check into KC some more.

I wish this freaking cold snap would end so i can drive some more before the end of the year.

[DWIGHT]

it's 44 degree now and the wind is 20 plus miles per hour. Been that away for days.
We take a drive every Thanksgiving and New Years. Wrap up, turn on the heater and let her rip.


Dwight

[convincor]

The 418 I had built, .040 over 390 block with 428 crank. Stock iron heads, stock 410 pistons for 9.2:1 compression. Lunati voodoo 268/276 made 501ft.lbs@3600 and 402hp at 5100..



For what your looking for, I'd go with the stage1 heads and the voodoo276/284. Voodoo Hyd Cam Kit - Ford 352-428FE 276/284 - Lunati Power


I haven't been impressed with the numbers I've seen from roller cams to justify the cost. Here a 445cu. stroker with a roller.. I'd expect better..
The FORDification.com Forums • View topic - 445 Stroker Dyno results

[Don Payne]

Originally Posted by AUME2010

I was actually leaning towards a hydraulic cam (both for the benefit of not having to swap springs etc during cam break in, and the power). But the numbers in the crane catalog scare me a little bit, their cruise rpm prediction is ridiculous. I don't want a cam that's going to leave me with no cruising power at 1500. Not that a 2700lb car needs a lot of power to stay rolling. Also that cam (according to desktop dyno) peaks out at 6k, thats a bit higher than i really want to spin it. But it is producing 475hp and torque is still good at 5600 so guess it would be good choice, just not sure if the CJ heads can handle springs big enough for that cam.

Desktop dyno seems to be a pretty decent tool, however, im skeptical of its low rpm figures.

Racer 28 do you have the dyno chart for that 428 you built before? Im curious about the low rpm performance of that cam.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Based on your response I think you missed the concept that your current cam is a hydraulic flat tappet. I was suggesting that you upgrade to a roller, more specifically either a hydraulic roller tappet or if you want to get really crazy a solid roller tappet. I would highly recommend you go with a hydraulic roller tappet camshaft. Unfortunately, Comp Cams does not seem to offer any for your engine. So that is why I suggested Crane Cams.

http://www.compcams.com/Pages/419/ca...breakdown.aspx

Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Solid/Mechanical Flat Tappet
Hydraulic Roller
Solid/Mechanical Roller

If you see the term Retro-fit, it means that the cam is ground on a smaller base circle core so that the lifters drop lower in the bores.

Cheers,
Don

[Saltshaker]

I just had my 428 dyno'd by Nickerson Performance... 456 hp at fly wheel and 366@rwh@ 5900 rpm.
428 .40 over 10.4 comp
C4 heads w/ CJ valves ported 282&196@.600
Comp 282s cam
Rpm intake
750 DP reworked by Nickerson Performance & 1" spacer
Pertronix 16 int , 36 total

Could of picked up another 10 hp if the intake was port matched!
Jon

[AUME2010]

Based on your response I think you missed the concept that your current cam is a hydraulic flat tappet.

Nope that's just me forgetting to type roller. I am extremely well versed in engines. I just wanted to bounce my ideas off of someone so i don't second guess myself on everything. Plus some real world numbers like saltshaker and convincor posted are extremely helpful.

Thanks for the posts again guys. I am once again convinced to start the cam search over for a roller cam. I thought about giving Survival a call as they have a very large number of custom roller cam grinds.

[Saltshaker]

Comp has a lot of different grinds in rollers for FE Motors. Call Barry @ Survival Motor Sports
In Detroit....one of the better FE Builders...he offers a dozer different grinds in both solid and hyd rollers. I wouldn't use a solid roller, the litters need TOBE rebuild aprox every 8000 miles.
Jon