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Old 10-14-2012, 08:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How to install a 2005-2010 T3650 manual transmission...

There's not a whole lot of info on installing this trans in roadster, so here's how I did it:

First, obtain a T3650 from 2005-2009 Mustang GT. Getting the shifter linkage with it is very helpful.

Upon purchase, you'll want to install a new slave cylinder. Get one from Ford, or get a Dorman from rockauto. Any other brands are prone to leaking. Installation is 2 bolts.



Next, you'll want a clutch. I'd recommend an Exedy or Valeo if you want a single disc with stock like effort. If your pockets are deeper, there are plenty of fantastic dual discs out there. Before you mount the clutch, you'll want to check to see if your slave needs a shim.

General Understanding: Factory Hyd. setup

How to measure: http://www.ramclutches.com/Instructi...SITION1010.pdf

Shim or don't shim as needed, and install the clutch:



With the clutch installed, you need to support the trans. You can use the FF provided cross member, you'll just need to drill out some holes for the Ford trans mount. Order one 7, one 8, and two 9's from Ford:

2007 FORD MUSTANG Parts - Tousley Ford Parts Depot



You'll need a slip driveshaft made. I had one made by a local shop for under $400. The bolts on the 8.8 flange are the same as the 3650 flange. The 3650 flange is a larger diameter though, so the driveshaft will have different ends. Bolts needed (you need 8 bolts total):





The shifter will need some work. The B&M for 05-09 Mustang GT uses pivot mount that is easy to mount on a plate. I bought some 3/16 steel plate and cut a hole for the shifter to drop through then mounted it to the trans rails:



To reduce the height of the shifter, I just used a die to cut the threads all the way down the stalk. The thread is M12x1.25. Pick your shifter ball.



The shifter works the same as the stock Mustang, only the linkage goes forward over the trans, instead of back of the trans.

Now, to the clutch. I used the stock pieces and bought a new braided line. The braided line includes the special fittings to fit the trans and the Ford master cylinder. The part is:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MCL-139251/

That connects the hydraulics from the trans to the master cylinder. I grafted the OEM master on to a pedal box using some plate steel. The result looks like this:



The nipple off the master is 5/16" and the Wilwood reservoir is 3/8". The working fluid of the clutch is DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid. Since it's corrosive, I had a local hydraulic shop make me an EPDM line with transition. Here's everything connected:



And finally, you need to bleed the clutch. My local Advance has a hand vacuum pump loaner. The bleeding instructions are:

Quote:
1. Make sure all hydraulic lines are correctly seated and all bleeder screws tightened.
2. Make sure clutch pedal is in the most upward position.
3. Check the fluid level. Fill the reservoir to the MAX fluid mark.
4. Using a suitable bleeder kit and vacuum pump, install the rubber stopper in the reservoir opening. Make sure it has a tight fit.
5. Holding the rubber stopper in place, operate the vacuum pump to 15-20 inches of vacuum. Hold the vacuum for 1 minute, then quickly release the vacuum. Remove the tools.
6. Check the reservoir and fill to MAX level if needed.
7. Depress and release the clutch 10 to 12 times until effort is consistent and positive at the top of clutch pedal travel.
8. Repeat 4, 5, and 6 two additional times or until clutch effort is consistent.
9. Install reservoir cap.
10. Check the reservoir and test for normal operation.
And that concludes your 2005-2009 T3650 transmission installation. I chose this transmission for my Coyote for a few reasons. It's readily available and cheap (lots of $500-$750 low mile units out there), it's set up for a hydraulic clutch, the remote shifter allows an ergonomic install location, and lastly they've been proven to hold 450+ hp. Hope that helps.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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ClemsonS197,

You are doing some great work there. Thanks for posting up all the details on this setup. I am still deciding between the 01-04 with a cable and the 05+ with a hydraulic clutch. I will be interested to see how well everything works together when you get her running!
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting. Such good timing. I think ill really enjoy this set up when its done.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the link. I just ordered the parts to mount the trans. From the link provided.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuff View Post
ClemsonS197,

You are doing some great work there. Thanks for posting up all the details on this setup. I am still deciding between the 01-04 with a cable and the 05+ with a hydraulic clutch. I will be interested to see how well everything works together when you get her running!
It runs. No complaints. The shifter is very short throws and notchy (which I like). Once I get my brake master cylinder issue sorted out I'll take it for a longer test drive and get better video.

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Old 10-16-2012, 07:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Awesome work.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting up the video. Sounds like your car is running very well. That 5.0 sure idles smooth and easy. This is why I love modern muscle.

Do you mind if I play devils advocate for a little while on the 05+ TR3650? I have two topics in my mind on this trans that bother me a little. Please don't in any way take it as criticism of your decisions or work. What you have done is certainly beyond my capabilities!

1. Driveshaft slip joint: Because of the flanged trans output, you need a driveshaft with a splined slip joint in the middle. Is this what ford did on all 05+ mustangs? As the devils advocate, I'd like to question the reliability of this setup. It seems like dirt and such could make it's way into the slip joint, which you really have some grease and move smoothly. The older mustang transmissions have a seal at the rear of the trans and all the oil they needs from oil sloshing around in the trans.

2. Do you really like the hydraulic setup that much more than a cable to make it worth the cost and expense? From an engineering point of view, you need the same amount of 'work' to use the clutch pedal, where work is force x distance. The hydraulic clutch just increases the distance with a reduced force, plus may feel more disconnect. It seems like there are no reliability issues with a cable either. My 97 GT has 207k miles, and still has the original clutch cable with no issues.

Again, Thanks for posting. You are doing some amazing work. But these are some of the thoughts bouncing around my mind about going to the 05+ trans as compared to the 01-04 version.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuff View Post
Thanks for posting up the video. Sounds like your car is running very well. That 5.0 sure idles smooth and easy. This is why I love modern muscle.

Do you mind if I play devils advocate for a little while on the 05+ TR3650? I have two topics in my mind on this trans that bother me a little. Please don't in any way take it as criticism of your decisions or work. What you have done is certainly beyond my capabilities!

1. Driveshaft slip joint: Because of the flanged trans output, you need a driveshaft with a splined slip joint in the middle. Is this what ford did on all 05+ mustangs? As the devils advocate, I'd like to question the reliability of this setup. It seems like dirt and such could make it's way into the slip joint, which you really have some grease and move smoothly. The older mustang transmissions have a seal at the rear of the trans and all the oil they needs from oil sloshing around in the trans.

2. Do you really like the hydraulic setup that much more than a cable to make it worth the cost and expense? From an engineering point of view, you need the same amount of 'work' to use the clutch pedal, where work is force x distance. The hydraulic clutch just increases the distance with a reduced force, plus may feel more disconnect. It seems like there are no reliability issues with a cable either. My 97 GT has 207k miles, and still has the original clutch cable with no issues.

Again, Thanks for posting. You are doing some amazing work. But these are some of the thoughts bouncing around my mind about going to the 05+ trans as compared to the 01-04 version.
No problem.

1 – I come from a Jeeping background where slip joints are the norm. Slip yokes (common in Mustangs) are often eliminated in favor of u-joints at both ends. It’s packed with grease, and I’ll just need to keep it greased to keep the dirt from wearing the slip splines. The 05+ Mustangs use a slip driveshaft. Ford puts a rubber boot over the slip to keep it clean. I guess I could always add a boot if it becomes an issue.

2 – The hydraulic set up was actually the least of my concerns. I think of it as an added bonus. First, I needed a transmission that would bolt up to the Coyote Motor. Second, I needed a transmission that offered the ability to use a remote shifter or mid-shift. Third, I needed a trans that reliably held 450 horsepower. Fourth, I wanted a transmission that had overdrive. So, I looked at my budget (total build looking at $23k) and decided the T3650 met my needs. I had a 2007 Mustang GT so I am very familiar with the trans and people are running 500+ rwhp through them pretty reliably. It allowed me to move the shifter where it was comfortable. It fit the Coyote motor and it was priced right. My trans has 12k miles on it and was ~$600 shipped. The hydraulic aspect was a benefit. Plus it gave me something to customize. I’m and engineer and avid DIYer so getting it to work was a nice accomplishment. It does lose a little feeling compared to cable, but you can feel the pressure plate lift and grab still.

So for well under $1,000 with shifter and clutch, I have a trans that meets all my needs.

Thanks for the compliments.

-Kevin
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The stock location shifter is in that bad of a location? I have to admit, I haven't ridden in one of these cars, and only looked at a few cars at various shows. I should really get together with some local roadster owners and have a better look.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuff View Post
The stock location shifter is in that bad of a location? I have to admit, I haven't ridden in one of these cars, and only looked at a few cars at various shows. I should really get together with some local roadster owners and have a better look.
It's not that bad, and there are many who truly like it. But that's not me. I'm also a bigger guy (6'-2", 230) and using thin seats (Kirkey's) so I wanted the ability to fine tune my shifter location.
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