The "It's only a kit car" car show goer... - Page 3 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

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post #61 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 05:18 PM
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One of my favorites (which I read on this forum a long time ago) is:

"Is that a kit?"

"Not any more!"

No question, there are some people that intend to belittle. I didn't build my car for them... the things they say don't bother me. Besides, I'm not trying to fool anybody - it was a kit, after all

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post #62 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 05:29 PM
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I have a question to ponder. Is the late 50's Ferrari being built by The Guild on Velocity a kit car? They are hand building a replica from ground up, I don't think any Ferrari parts. So what is it then???

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post #63 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 05:34 PM
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Replica

Kit is just that. You buy a kit designed by a company for ease of build. You build if from scratch you have a replica.


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I have a question to ponder. Is the late 50's Ferrari being built by The Guild on Velocity a kit car? They are hand building a replica from ground up, I don't think any Ferrari parts. So what is it then???


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post #64 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 06:50 PM
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Kit is just that. You buy a kit designed by a company for ease of build. You build if from scratch you have a replica.
So then completed Superformance and Kirkham's are replicas, yes?

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post #65 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 08:54 PM
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Semantics

I guess I would have to say yes. On the other hand, I would state that while the Factory Five roadster is a "Kit Car" it is also a Replica. When you order your FFR roadster you purchase a kit. Eventually you hopefully end up with a replica of the early Cobra roadsters.

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So then completed Superformance and Kirkham's are replicas, yes?


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post #66 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 11:10 PM
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I'm friends with a few owners of authentic Shelby Cobras.

One owner I know with a COB car races his at Goodwood in the U.K. quite regularly.

Another owner uses his unrestored, very early 289 Cobra, as a summer daily driver. That car still has its original paint, gets parked in town and left unattended, and is generally treated as "a car". Most people just assume its a replica anyways since it gets used.

Both of these guys know that I built and own a FFR and don't look down upon the car at all. In fact, there's a certain amount of camaraderie between us for having these cars, authentic or not, as lovers of an iconic American automobile.

Case and point, anybody who is criticizing a replica for being a replica has likely never driven an authentic Shelby Cobra or a replica in the first place, and likely never will as they probably don't understand or respect the cars, authentic or not.
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post #67 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:54 PM
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I use the term replica for a very specific reason. In my states DMV definitions, "Kit car" is a re-body of an existing car. That is what most people in any state think of when the term kit car is used. Like a Bradly GT, Ferrari - looking Fiero, or if you put a Cobra body on a VW chassis. There was and still is a lot of really bad kit cars out there. Pretty much none of them measure up to the original of whatever they are copying in performance and engineering. That is not the case with an FFR. Our cars easily outperform an original Cobra and are safer and more dependable while doing it. Factory Five went to a LOT of effort to have our cars far removed from this association. If the parts coming in a kit makes something a kit car, then every manufactured car out there is a kit car.

Replica is something built from the ground up to be like the original. (Also my states DMV definition) Whether the parts come in a kit or are individually sourced, it is a replica.

I think anyone that has an FFR and uses the term "kit car" is doing our community, and our cars values for that matter, a disservice.

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post #68 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 06:45 PM
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I use the term replica for a very specific reason. In my states DMV definitions, "Kit car" is a re-body of an existing car. That is what most people in any state think of when the term kit car is used. Like a Bradly GT, Ferrari - looking Fiero, or if you put a Cobra body on a VW chassis. There was and still is a lot of really bad kit cars out there. Pretty much none of them measure up to the original of whatever they are copying in performance and engineering. That is not the case with an FFR. Our cars easily outperform an original Cobra and are safer and more dependable while doing it. Factory Five went to a LOT of effort to have our cars far removed from this association. If the parts coming in a kit makes something a kit car, then every manufactured car out there is a kit car.

Replica is something built from the ground up to be like the original. (Also my states DMV definition) Whether the parts come in a kit or are individually sourced, it is a replica.

I think anyone that has an FFR and uses the term "kit car" is doing our community, and our cars values for that matter, a disservice.

I too make the same explanation when asked. I represent my Roadster as a replica of the original, which it is with obvious differences. Like the fiberglass body. When pressed with the often, "Oh, it's a kit car..." I agree. Yes, a replica built from a kit. Most are OK with that. Especially given the high visibility and recognition of the Factory Five brand.

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post #69 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 05:07 PM
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I have to agree, the term "kit-car" really bugs me and I won't use it. Too many wacky and bad examples of kits.

I hate to say it, but I'm even a little bit ignorant in that I view the complete kit as superior to the basic donor kit. I guess we all have our baggage. On my way to being reformed...

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post #70 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 07:56 PM
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I hate to say it, but I'm even a little bit ignorant in that I view the complete kit as superior to the basic donor kit. I guess we all have our baggage. On my way to being reformed...
For the record, lots of base kits are built as non-donors. It's a good way to go if you want to choose many of the parts yourself. Two of my three builds were from base kits, and I haven't had a donor yet. No that there's anything wrong with that.

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post #71 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 08:16 PM
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For the record, lots of base kits are built as non-donors. It's a good way to go if you want to choose many of the parts yourself. Two of my three builds were from base kits, and I haven't had a donor yet. No that there's anything wrong with that.
Yup. Since it was my first build and I didn't know what I didn't know I got the complete kit. By the time I was done I had a pile of leftover parts too. Now that I have build experience I'd get the basic kit and save a on parts.

Like you say donor vs non-donor is a whole other discussion. Props to those who can do a clean donor build. Not sure I'd have the patience.

Mario


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post #72 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 08:55 PM
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new reply

Maybe we should just start giving the factual reply that fits every FF

I bought a race chassis and a body from Factory Five Racing
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post #73 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 11:20 PM
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If these "enthusiasts" can't tell the difference, then their 'opinion' shouldn't matter.
I think a good response to "Is it real" would be, "Your eyes do not deceive you!"
Or, "Nope. This one is cheaper, drives better and I built it MYSELF!"

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post #74 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 09:52 AM
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post #75 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 01:14 PM
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post #76 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 02:01 PM
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There's More...

Yesterday I stopped at the gas station. Two guys walk up and go "What Year Is That"? I replied '65. (My SC registration says 1965.) One guy says back to me "55", I said "No '65". He replied back "57, I thought '55 was the first year for a Corvette". I told him "It's Not A Corvette". The second guy looks at me and says, "Well, I know It's Got A Porsche Body On It". (and they walk away) And the next "Goober" shows up. "Wow, that's a Nice... (and a loss for words) and it has Nitrous". (This Guy looked to be 50 years old.) He had no Idea what "It Was" and Can't tell a Chrome Fire Extinguisher from a NOS bottle.

I've also had the bunch that has no idea what it is but wants to know how much it Costs.
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post #77 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 06:52 PM
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Sorry if I am butting in a Cobra Forum. My experience with the 33 Hot rod has been totally positive. I must admit I had considered these types of bias prior to taking the leap. I go to about 3-4 GTG/Shows a week in the DFW area. I will have to admit I have asked Cobra guys if their cars were kit cars, one of the reasons I went with the FFR Hot Rod was the fantastic work you guys do on these cars. I expected a very high quality kit. Also, I had no clue as to what it takes to make even good kit as awesome as the rides I see in person and on the forums. I have about 3,000 miles on my 33 Hot Rod. Many of the venues I go to park me in the front since the car draws the crowds from the Ferrari's and Porsches. First meet with old school hot rods exclusively I was a little timid to park with the all steel 32's and 40's. Those guys seemed to appreciate the kit more than most. Also, the car is an absolute chick magnet. I've had women follow me into gas stations to tell me how cute it is. When I ride down the road women out jogging and walking kids, dogs, or friends wave. Every time I come to a meet people come and ask me what I have done this past week. My usual response is drove the hell out of it. Just my thoughts.


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post #78 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 02:17 PM
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Yesterday I stopped at the gas station. Two guys walk up and go "What Year Is That"?
I personally think that in this case, they love the car, want to talk about it, but for some reason "what year is that" is less awkward than "what kind of car is that."
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post #79 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 03:56 PM
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As much as we all hate the words, we all drive a "kit car".
When a spectator asks if the car is real, they usually mean is it an original 60's era cobra. Ours aren't. I usually respond by saying "I wish!" We'll laugh and then they'll ask if it's a "kit" or some other creation and I'll explain that it's a replica built in South Africa. Then the conversation usually goes to what motor is in it, etc.
I take no offense when someone asks if it's a "kit car". Once a guy in an old beater VW van pulled up next to me at a traffic light and yelled "nice kit car!" I just said thanks and waited for the light to change. Not sure if he was being a smart ass or giving a genuine compliment.
Usually after I explain how the car was built, I get a comment like "beautiful car". Most people just throw out whatever terminology they know and "real" and "kit car" are their only options.

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post #80 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 05:18 PM
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Even Jay Leno's "Cobra" is a replica. He's upfront right from the start yet still proud of it. And he could easily afford multiple originals! Instead he gets to drive the crap out of his and enjoy it!

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post #81 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 05:27 PM
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As much as we all hate the words, we all drive a "kit car".
When a spectator asks if the car is real, they usually mean is it an original 60's era cobra. Ours aren't. I usually respond by saying "I wish!" We'll laugh and then they'll ask if it's a "kit" or some other creation and I'll explain that it's a replica built in South Africa. Then the conversation usually goes to what motor is in it, etc.
I take no offense when someone asks if it's a "kit car". Once a guy in an old beater VW van pulled up next to me at a traffic light and yelled "nice kit car!" I just said thanks and waited for the light to change. Not sure if he was being a smart ass or giving a genuine compliment.
Usually after I explain how the car was built, I get a comment like "beautiful car". Most people just throw out whatever terminology they know and "real" and "kit car" are their only options.
I never take offense to the phrase "kit car" even if it is meant as such. It IS a kit car and it is also proof of how far the industry has come. If someone thinks my car harkens back to the Bradley GT then they're only demonstrating their ignorance. When someone asks if it's real I take it as a compliment and answer honestly that it is a Factory Five kit car. Some proceed to talk about it being a Mustang etc and if they're receptive I'll educate them. If not they are free to wallow in their own ignorance.

Mario
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post #82 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 05:39 PM
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And BTW, I wish some of you didn't get your hackles up so much at the phrase "kit car". When you play games to avoid the term you only feed the BS.

Mario
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post #83 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 05:42 PM
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I have no problem with the term kit car although in casual conversation i use the term replica to describe it to others. In my mind the 818 or GTM are truer kit cars.

That being said, kit car certainly has negative connotations and I can understand why some people could be offended by that characterization. Especially if their vehicle has been built to a very high standard (a la Kirkham or Superformance) and not by Uncle Bob over a weekend.

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post #84 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 06:10 PM
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I have no problem with the term kit car although in casual conversation i use the term replica to describe it to others. In my mind the 818 or GTM are truer kit cars.

That being said, kit car certainly has negative connotations and I can understand why some people could be offended by that characterization. Especially if their vehicle has been built to a very high standard (a la Kirkham or Superformance) and not by Uncle Bob in his garage.
Not sure how to respond to this. We're talking about FFR's here not pre-made rollers for one. And while I've seen some less than quality FFR builds there are also fantastic builds that rival any Superformance or Kirkham. Of course being FFRs we'll never have the same value as those cars but I don't care. I'm not in it for the investment. Lastly, I happen to be helping an uncle Bob build his FFR right now and your characterization of him does you a disservice.

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post #85 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 09:15 PM
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Lastly, I happen to be helping an uncle Bob build his FFR right now and your characterization of him does you a disservice
I'm merely pointing out the varying quality of FFR builds; some are comparable to Kirkham/Superformance and some aren't. My own build is certainly one of the latter.

Infer from that whatever characterization you wish.
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post #86 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 03:56 AM
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Lol these types of people make me Laugh!! All they try to do is try to put owners down. Because they are miserable and jealous! I love when someone asks is it Fake? I 'll ask ,What does fake mean? i'm proud as shit I own a "KIT CAR"" Look at my name lol. I once over heard a guy say to a kit owner, "Is it REAL" and the Kit owner replied, yes it is, if you have any doubts your welcome to stand in front of it when I pull away!!! LMFAO
Aren't people wonderful? lol
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post #87 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 04:15 AM
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You know what I say when they ask if it's a kit? YES.....because it was freakin' kit.

I'd have finished a long time ago if I knew they were this fun!


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post #88 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 03:18 PM
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Instead of being flippant in our remarks, maybe we should try and put ourselves in the other person's shoes...

Let's say that you walk up on a car that is a classic and that you have always lusted for, what would you say to the owner? While the first words out of your mouth might not be "is it real?" I would bet that sooner or later in the conversation that question would be asked simply because you want to know more about what you are looking at.

Yes some people are snooty and some people mean it as a put down, but many others are just interested and it is a logical question.

You can not be offended by someone you choose not to be offended by.
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post #89 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 08:27 PM
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Location: Pittsburgh PA
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Standard first question "is it real?"

Standard response "do you think I'd be here if it was?" Or sometimes "I wish".

I really don't have an issue with this because real ones (and we all know what that means) are so rarely seen on the street it's a treat to actually find one.

Second question "what's in it?"

-Fred
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post #90 of 113 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 11:07 PM
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Might want to do a little research on the rules here regarding street racing....

I'd have finished a long time ago if I knew they were this fun!


FFR 4888: Street Cobra: No Scoop, No Pipes, No Rollbar.

302, TW heads, E-cam, Edlebrock intake and carb.
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