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post #91 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:13 AM
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depending on how she was living there and how long, lease or no lease you cannot throw here stuff out matter how much you want to she can sue you for their value. You might of already broke the the law if you did not give proper notice for her to leave lease or not. If you had a lease or not you have laws you have to follow or she can move back in and you will lose in court. I have bought houses that the landlord was trying to evict a person for a year before I came along. Trust me I do this for a living follow the law or it will only become the biggest headache of your life. All she has to do is go to a halfway house and tell them you just kicked her out and she will get a free lawyer to sue you.
Are you sure about that? Does it also apply to family? What if there was no contract?

I'm just wondering if kicking a family member out is the same as kicking out a renter that's delinquent on their rent?

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post #92 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 02:33 AM
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Are you sure about that? Does it also apply to family? What if there was no contract?

I'm just wondering if kicking a family member out is the same as kicking out a renter that's delinquent on their rent?
I am 100% sure with the amount of properties I have statistical I have a tenant change every 2 weeks. Section 83.67, F.S., Tenants who occupy a property in Florida without a lease still have a legal claim to the property if they do not have a lease they are considered on a month to month,

You have to file an eviction if a tenant refuses to vacate the premises after the service of a proper notice to the tenant. A 15 days notice prior to the end of any monthly period in writing for a month to month.
It’s illegal for you to turn off utilities, change locks on your doors or remove their belongings from the property in an attempt to drive her out of the building.

If you have to help them move in, you will have to help them move out.
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post #93 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 09:29 AM
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I am 100% sure with the amount of properties I have statistical I have a tenant change every 2 weeks. Section 83.67, F.S., Tenants who occupy a property in Florida without a lease still have a legal claim to the property if they do not have a lease they are considered on a month to month,
another reason we have done 'cash for keys'. It's amazing how little cash some will be happy with just to leave quietly & without causing significant damages.
But sadly I doubt if the daughter in question has a 'full deck' to fully comprehend her situation & the repercussions she is yet to face.
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post #94 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Her stuff has all been moved into a secure storage facility and she has been provided the access code and a key. I went to the house last night and there is no evidence that she has been staying there. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel - at least on this matter. With her you never know.

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post #95 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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another reason we have done 'cash for keys'. It's amazing how little cash some will be happy with just to leave quietly & without causing significant damages.
But sadly I doubt if the daughter in question has a 'full deck' to fully comprehend her situation & the repercussions she is yet to face.
I would have offered her cash but I wouldn't want to fuel a drug habit if she has one. I did offer to pay for 3 months of rent directly to a landlord and she refused.

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post #96 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 02:06 PM
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I would have offered her cash but I wouldn't want to fuel a drug habit if she has one. I did offer to pay for 3 months of rent directly to a landlord and she refused.
There's your answer. It's like the homeless guys that hold up the "Hungry" signs. Several times in my life I've offered to buy them food at a M D's, Checkers, etc., and they refused. They insisted on me just giving them the money.

No way I'm going to donate my cash to support an addict.

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post #97 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 04:17 PM
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I forget, did you ever accept any money from your step daughter to live in that house of yours? If not, I have a very tough time believing a judge would rule against you as she has essentially broken into your property and illegally occupied it. Now you knowing about it and not immediately calling the authorities may have been a mistake in her favor, but if no money changed hands I do not believe she is "month to month".


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post #98 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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I forget, did you ever accept any money from your step daughter to live in that house of yours? If not, I have a very tough time believing a judge would rule against you as she has essentially broken into your property and illegally occupied it. Now you knowing about it and not immediately calling the authorities may have been a mistake in her favor, but if no money changed hands I do not believe she is "month to month".
Never a penny. I paid everything - taxes, landscaping, utilities. She literally did break in through a window initially. After a friends house fire that took her dog we told her she could stay there for 2 months - that was a year ago as we prepped the house for sale. She moved out briefly leaving the house a filthy mess. We had it cleaned to prep for sale and she moved back in without our permission and now the house is filthy again. I too have a hard time believing you can't immediately remove a family member/non-tenant from your home. If my cousin breaks into my beach house and refuses to leave I would think I would be able to have her arrested vs needing to file for eviction.

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post #99 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 06:15 PM
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Never a penny. I paid everything - taxes, landscaping, utilities. She literally did break in through a window initially. After a friends house fire that took her dog we told her she could stay there for 2 months - that was a year ago as we prepped the house for sale. She moved out briefly leaving the house a filthy mess. We had it cleaned to prep for sale and she moved back in without our permission and now the house is filthy again. I too have a hard time believing you can't immediately remove a family member/non-tenant from your home. If my cousin breaks into my beach house and refuses to leave I would think I would be able to have her arrested vs needing to file for eviction.
she is a Tenant at Will the laws protect her not you the problem is you let her stay for a year rent or no rent lease or no lease. You let her stay for a year you have a 98% chance she will not do a thing but to send a letter to is not worth it, hire a management company to do it not a real estate agent because without knowing every detail no one here can give you the answer. Also it takes the emotion out of the equation for your wife.

83.03 
Termination of tenancy at will; length of notice.—A tenancy at will may be terminated by either party giving notice as follows:
(1) Where the tenancy is from year to year, by giving not less than 3 months’ notice prior to the end of any annual period;
(2) Where the tenancy is from quarter to quarter, by giving not less than 45 days’ notice prior to the end of any quarter;
(3) Where the tenancy is from month to month, by giving not less than 15 days’ notice prior to the end of any monthly period; and
(4) Where the tenancy is from week to week, by giving not less than 7 days’ notice prior to the end of any weekly period.

If you have to help them move in, you will have to help them move out.
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post #100 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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she is a Tenant at Will the laws protect her not you the problem is you let her stay for a year rent or no rent lease or no lease. You let her stay for a year you have a 98% chance she will not do a thing but to send a letter to is not worth it, hire a management company to do it not a real estate agent because without knowing every detail no one here can give you the answer. Also it takes the emotion out of the equation for your wife.

83.03 
Termination of tenancy at will; length of notice.—A tenancy at will may be terminated by either party giving notice as follows:
(1) Where the tenancy is from year to year, by giving not less than 3 months’ notice prior to the end of any annual period;
(2) Where the tenancy is from quarter to quarter, by giving not less than 45 days’ notice prior to the end of any quarter;
(3) Where the tenancy is from month to month, by giving not less than 15 days’ notice prior to the end of any monthly period; and
(4) Where the tenancy is from week to week, by giving not less than 7 days’ notice prior to the end of any weekly period.
She was given notice multiple times via text and emails since the beginning of August to which she responded that she was making plans to leave. She just never did.

I agreed to let my other step daughter and her boyfriend stay in our beach house as a way to celebrate his birthday. Does that in any way give them legal rights as a tenant and the right to refuse to leave? Not that they would - they are great, respectful kids.

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post #101 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 07:54 PM
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I agree it makes no sense. I have an apartment over my garage. I let friends stay here, no contract, no money just let them stay for a few days free.

Are you telling me if for some reason they refused to leave I couldn't have them immediately kicked out? If there is any other answer than "yes, you can kick them out on the spot" then something is wrong.

BTW my friends would never cause a problem just using this as an example.

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post #102 of 134 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 09:06 PM
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In PA a person becomes a resident when owner allows them to stay beyond a few days and they receive mail at the address. The person usually needs some proof of residency; drivers license, utility bill, etc.

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post #103 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 01:46 AM
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I agree it makes no sense. I have an apartment over my garage. I let friends stay here, no contract, no money just let them stay for a few days free.

Are you telling me if for some reason they refused to leave I couldn't have them immediately kicked out? If there is any other answer than "yes, you can kick them out on the spot" then something is wrong.

BTW my friends would never cause a problem just using this as an example.
Let them stay a year and in Florida they have an argument

If you have to help them move in, you will have to help them move out.
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post #104 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 02:34 AM
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She was given notice multiple times via text and emails since the beginning of August to which she responded that she was making plans to leave. She just never did.

I agreed to let my other step daughter and her boyfriend stay in our beach house as a way to celebrate his birthday. Does that in any way give them legal rights as a tenant and the right to refuse to leave? Not that they would - they are great, respectful kids.
DId you step daughter and her boyfriend stay in the beach house for a year.

All I am saying is unless you gave her proper notice because she is a tenant at will she can take you to court and make your life miserable for spite. Did you give proper notice I do not know it sounds like you might of if you sent her notices 6-7 months ago. But an eviction is about 6 months to late.

Be happy she is gone and don't cave in good luck if she becomes trouble I have a great Lawyer that specializes in tenant landlord disputes.

If you have to help them move in, you will have to help them move out.
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post #105 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Bad news/Good news

Bad news: We had the place thoroughly cleaned and everything moved out. My BIL went back to pressure wash a part of the house in preparation for the real estate photographers appointment today. Last night he tells us she is back and has deliberately scattered stuff all over the bedroom and family room.. He confronted her and she pushed him.

Good News: We called and met the police at the house. Fearing she would have some sort of squatters rights we worried nothing could be done. The police kindly informed us that those rights do not apply to your children if they are over the age of 18. We could have her physically removed right then and there and we could press charges. She was informed of this as well to her dismay. As expected she developed an attitude with the police. She told the police that she owned the house - they almost laughed. The police spoke with my wife and I privately and suggested we give her until morning to clear out or face arrest today. Also suggested we change the locks - if she then enters it is breaking and entering and trespassing. We took their advice. That is where we stand as of now.

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post #106 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 12:51 PM
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Just wondering why you didn't boot her last night?

I wouldn't be surprised if your place is in shambles when you go back there today.

I hope that's not the case, but her past behavior is a good indicator of future expectations.


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post #107 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 12:59 PM
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The police spoke with my wife and I privately and suggested we give her until morning to clear out or face arrest today. Also suggested we change the locks - if she then enters it is breaking and entering and trespassing. We took their advice. That is where we stand as of now.
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post #108 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 02:33 PM
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Dang Skunkman...I'm sorry that you had her out and she moved back in. Good call on involving the police and, while you had every right to boot her last night, I understand trying to be caring for someone even when they are acting like she is. Hopefully she will be out today with no further damage but, depending on how far she has 'fallen,' you might be faced with police action. If so, stand tough and do her the favor (remind yourself of this) of letting her reap the consequences of her actions! Most importantly, be there for your wife, it is hard for a father (step-father) to see children suffer for poor choices but it is harder on their mothers.

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post #109 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 04:39 PM
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Dang Skunkman...I'm sorry that you had her out and she moved back in. Good call on involving the police and, while you had every right to boot her last night, I understand trying to be caring for someone even when they are acting like she is. Hopefully she will be out today with no further damage but, depending on how far she has 'fallen,' you might be faced with police action. If so, stand tough and do her the favor (remind yourself of this) of letting her reap the consequences of her actions! Most importantly, be there for your wife, it is hard for a father (step-father) to see children suffer for poor choices but it is harder on their mothers.
Agree completely.

I think the police just want this to go away. Usually that is their first suggestion, is that the parties try and work it out between themselves. In other words, what they said was, "technically we can help you remove her, but we really don't want to get involved, so we suggest you give her a day to work out the issue between you and her so that we might not have to be involved." This probably works out for the police 10% of the time, but that still saves them a lot of work, and possibly ends in a better result for everyone. That said, make sure you stick to a plan and timeline now that one has been presented. Do everything the police suggested and if the step daughter does not respond correctly then do what you know has to be done.


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post #110 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 04:54 PM
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No more breaks. It sounds as if she has been given too many already and expects to keep getting them. If she returns again you need to make it so that she leaves in a police car wearing handcuffs.

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post #111 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 07:09 PM
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Just wondering why you didn't boot her last night?

I wouldn't be surprised if your place is in shambles when you go back there today.

I hope that's not the case, but her past behavior is a good indicator of future expectations.


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Same thoughts I had.

I feel for you, skunkman.

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post #112 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 09:06 PM
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Step-daughter, right?
At this point, just don't let it come between you and your wife.
It's mostly her issue to deal with, but it's a landmine for your relationship. Tread lightly....
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post #113 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 02:20 PM
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So, How did it go?

Is she out? Is the place trashed?
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post #114 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 01:50 AM
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We called and met the police at the house. Fearing she would have some sort of squatters rights we worried nothing could be done. The police kindly informed us that those rights do not apply to your children if they are over the age of 18. We could have her physically removed right then and there and we could press charges. She was informed of this as well to her dismay. As expected she developed an attitude with the police. She told the police that she owned the house - they almost laughed. The police spoke with my wife and I privately and suggested we give her until morning to clear out or face arrest today. Also suggested we change the locks - if she then enters it is breaking and entering and trespassing. We took their advice. That is where we stand as of now.
I'm sorry for you, this is a horrible situation to be in.

With that said, what I said before has been solidified. Your step-daughter does not think you're serious enough to press charges and have her tossed in jail. If she's not gone by the time I'm writing this, you need to do yourself, your wife and your step-daughter all a favor. Have her arrested immediately. Stop trying to be the nice guy, we're far past that. She without a doubt has a mental illness, she's incredibly deranged. BUT, it's a damn good thing you got the cops involved. Now they have a record of the situation, they know what you told her and when you prosecute her, the law is on your side. You have the legal right to call the officer(s) in to testify with regards to what happened.

I hate to say this, but it's time you put a cowboy hat on and dispense some justice. You've been friendly for too long, it's time you become like Russia during the Cold War, ruthless and heartless. And I would recommend getting couple's counseling for your wife and you. You might think you don't need it, and you'd be wrong. There is prolonged trauma you might not be fully aware of. At the very least, it will help your wife and a happy wife, happy life. Once you have her arrested, this will mess with your wife a lot. She had her daughter arrested, no mother that loves her children can just deal with that. Tough love isn't easy, and it often requires a few bottles of wine.

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post #115 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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You guys are right -too nice for too long. It just had to come to this for my wife to realize what to do. Of course her stuff was deliberately spread all over the place when my wife went to the house with the realtor and the photographer. They first took pictures of the outside then threw her crap out the door and took pictures of the inside. Good luck has it the photographer is also a locksmith (go figure). He immediately changed all of the locks and secured all of the windows. My BIL is heading there this morning to pick up and take her stuff to Good Will. She was notified of this and informed she could pick it up by 10AM if she chooses. She was also informed that if she enters the house she goes to jail. If she damages the house she goes to jail. The police were also notified of our wishes.

The couples counseling suggestion is good. We have done it before for other issues with success. It is easy for me to be more objective, I just can't imagine the pain my wife must be feeling knowing she will likely be the one to initiate a trip to jail for her daughter some day.

On a positive note my wife's two other daughters are extremely supportive of us and our decision.

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post #116 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by skunkman View Post
It is easy for me to be more objective, I just can't imagine the pain my wife must be feeling knowing she will likely be the one to initiate a trip to jail for her daughter some day.

On a positive note my wife's two other daughters are extremely supportive of us and our decision.
When the time comes to make the call to the police and/or be present during the arrest...I would suggest:
  1. You advise your wife that you are going to do all the dirty work.
  2. You make the actual phone call.
  3. You meet with the police alone.
  4. You ask the other girls to keep her occupied until the deed is done.
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post #117 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 02:24 PM
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Skunkman, Sorry to hear about your situation. Sorry but I have to agree with others, take a hard line and get her removed if you have to have her cool her heels in jail a night it may be a wakeup, maybe not. Do not empower the "Entitlement Generation"

Bob

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post #118 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:47 AM
Too much is just enough.
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Originally Posted by skunkman View Post
Damn - the Kardasians have nothing on us!!!!
Too bad you didn't decide to create a reality TV show out of this back when it all started. Then you could be paying her to do more crazy and stupid stuff, to generate you millions. Make everyone think you're stupid as hell for constantly helping her, when in reality all the fools that care about reality TV are making you rich.

Damn it. We've been looking at this all wrong.

-Joe
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Last edited by Motorhead; 03-11-2017 at 05:54 AM.
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post #119 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Very Good News

As mentioned her stuff was thrown outside and the locks were changed. She was given notice that her crap would be given away if it wasn't immediately removed. My BIL went to the house the next day with a truck to haul it away and to our surprise it was gone. The realtor had an open house and we already have an offer close ($310k) to our asking price of $325k. My wife doesn't want to go below $320k. The realtor with the offer is the listing agent as well - if she chips in a small amount of the commission we will be moving on shortly.

Thanks for the support and advice through this fiasco. Many lessons learned.
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post #120 of 134 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 03:02 PM
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The realtor with the offer is the listing agent as well - if she chips in a small amount of the commission we will be moving on shortly.

Thanks for the support and advice through this fiasco. Many lessons learned.
When I helped my dad sell his place, the first offer came in a bit low. The realtor was willing to give up half the commission because he figured he would get the listing for the buyer having to sell their place. It's surprising how many realtors forget "Fast nickels are better than slow dimes."

He was a Re-max broker/agent. RE-max uses a different business model than most agencies. The agent gets to keep almost all of the commission and has the flexibility to structure a deal how they want to. In return they have to pay into the broker's office and insurance costs whether they make any sales or not. So, only people that are confident in their ability to sell stay with them.

Note: I have not financial interest in any real estate office. Just giving my $0.02 from having dealt with several different "name brands" over the years.
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