My son-in-law ran off the road and hit a curb in their honda civic. It was raining and he said someone pulled in front of him and he hit the brakes and began fish tailiing and lost control and went over the curb and totally messed up the rear suspension. I did not think it was possible to fish tail in a front wheel drive. I did not tell him that, but it still bothers me after two days. Am I wrong?
Thanks, Jim.
Over corrected, rear lost grip with brakes on, without having the foot in the gas
Gas could have pulled him out of it, but most likely he swerved to avoid and got it too sideways and just lost traction. Not a true fishtail, just out of control rear.
DId it actually swing one side to the other though. If it only broke to one side not really fish tailing.
__________________ "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Inigo Montoya
Thanks guys, he says he fish tailed. I guess in the moment it could have seemed that way to him. I just have a feeling he was driving too fast for conditions on a wet curvy road and lost it.
Jim.
Under hard braking the rear gets light and the brakes lock making it oversteer and when it regains traction (because he let off the brakes a bit so weight moves back or the road gives better traction), or he over corrects, it can snap back the other way.
Front wheel drive cars can fish tail (oversteer) under braking, especially when they don't have ABS. It's much harder with ABS. Under hard braking, as during a panic stop, weight transfers to the front of the car so the rear brakes lock. If there is a difference in traction under the four tires, the car will pivot on the front tire with the most grip, even when braking in a straight line. The traction difference can be caused by any number of factors; dry spot under one tire and puddle under others, oil, gravel, pot hole, pavement camber, whatever.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
I just have a feeling he was driving too fast for conditions on a wet curvy road and lost it.
I think you nailed it right there.
The specific behaviour of the car after he "lost control" isn't really that important.
If he doesn't learn his limits it will probably happen again (and again).
Autocross teaches car control really, really well and also (with some personalities, you'd have to be the judge on that) serves to get that need for speed out of their system in a safe environment.
Just a thought,
Mike
Last edited by MikeKelly; 10-01-2012 at 12:28 PM..
Got my license and first FWD Honda at 16 years, 1 month, and 1 day. By 16 years and 6 months...I was professional E-Brake Enhancement Driver. Perhaps he was perfecting his skills. Or perhaps he was simply going too fast.
Condition of rear tires? I, like a LOT of other people over the years, have only replaced a pair of tires at a time on front wheel drive cars. I always put the new tires on the front so as to be able to go a long as possible before I needed to buy any more and to improve the traction of the steering and drive axle. Turns out, according to all the experts...you should put the new tires on the rear.
Got my license and first FWD Honda at 16 years, 1 month, and 1 day. By 16 years and 6 months...I was professional E-Brake Enhancement Driver. Perhaps he was perfecting his skills. Or perhaps he was simply going too fast.
Yep, I use to love pulling the ebrake as a 16 year old to get my car to fish tail. I got so good at it, I could get the car to do a 180 on main street. Several tickets (29 points) later and I learned that driving like I owned the road wasn't such a good idea... I guess I was a typical hard headed know it all teenager.
You all made some good points. He is a young man who makes some young decisions. I guess most of us did similar things. It wouldn't bother me as much, except it is the car I bought my daughter before she got married. She drove it 3 years with no problems, he has it for 3 monthes and it is becoming a money pit for them. I think the autocross idea is a good one, he would enjoy it also I am sure.
Thanks.
...got in over his head in a turn and lost it. This is how kids learn to drive.
I agree, and that's my point precisely.
The first time most kids learn about locking up tires, or over driving a corner, or over driving conditions... They end up in a ditch or on their top, or worse.
Far better for them to learn these things with only pylons to knock over.
Learning it increases their car control exponentially, and *most* of them will completely lose interest in testing their limits out on the big road.
You all made some good points. He is a young man who makes some young decisions. I guess most of us did similar things. It wouldn't bother me as much, except it is the car I bought my daughter before she got married. She drove it 3 years with no problems, he has it for 3 monthes and it is becoming a money pit for them. I think the autocross idea is a good one, he would enjoy it also I am sure.
Thanks.
"I didn't build it - I'm rebuilding it.." Mark III FFR4331 - Ford Crate 4.6 DOHC, Accel Gen 7 Engine Harness, Quality Roadsters A/C System, Power Cobra R Brakes with Hydroboost, Power Steering, 275X17/315X17, BMW Titanium Silver with HOK Brandywine Stripes, Intake, and Valve Covers.
A lot of the kids around here drive Civics with mismatched wheels. They will have a set of steel 15" rims and tires on one end and a set of low profile tires and rims on the other.
Click on the pic to see if there is one near you...
I have attended this one as an adult and can tell you it's a great day exploring the limits of your car. When I did the class they made all students set a time going through the course and then try again while talking on their cell. Really drives home how distracting it is when you are plowing over cones
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Perhaps he was perfecting his skills. Or perhaps he was simply going too fast.
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