buying welder..need advice

[RyanH]

Hello,

This is really a several part question..

I own property that has an existing 1600sqft shop on it which was previously used in a commercial manner and has existing 3 phase electricity wired to it.

Given that size is no real factor, Im finding myself fantasizing about buying a surplus industrial grade welder. Old school.

The reality is that Ill probobly only ever weld on small things...accessories/mods to my roadster...shelving and shop accessories, etc.

Like buying a used semi tractor for the occasional trip to the lumber yard. Massive overkill.

If thats a bad idea then Im looking at a home/hobby model which is really all Ill ever need.

How cool/important is this new inverter tech that the retailers are selling the new stuff on? Is it really that much better?

Last time I welded anything was High School shop class circa 1988. I will only occasionally weld things..I wont ever really develop the skills to really tweak all the knobs to get the settings perfect..Ill probably just set them close and run with it.

The new stuff seems to be almost idiot proof..but its pretty damn expensive compared to what you can get off craigslist/ebay.

So:

Option 1. New versitile hobby grade machine like the Millermatic 211. kinda pricey.

Option 2. Old hobby grade machine. cheap. but less versitile?

Option 3. Old Industrial grade machine..probably still less $$ than option 1.

Thoughts?

[Brian F]

What kind of welder are you thinking? Mig, tig, stick, gas, etc.?

For the stuff you are talking about, I would think a mig or gas setup would be best. I would check out craigslist for a mig setup with a bottle (argon/CO2), 120v model would work just fine for "around the shop" type stuff if not doing structural things. For heavier duty welding, an older stick welder can be had on Craigslist for a reasonable price usually. Otherwise, option 1.

You should post this question on Garage Journal. You'll get a ton of responses.

[QSL]

We have a miller 212 and its easy to use. But to be honest, i also have a hobart 140amp that works great. They are cheap too and made by miller. I also have a miller tig, but dont use it much due to my skill level. The migs are really easy for anyone to pick up and melt two pieces of metal together with.

[CraigS]

I have a stick welder I got from HD for <$300 and it's fine for welding 1/8 to 1/4 inch steel. I can do stuff less than 1/8 inch but am usually not real happy to show it to someone. I also have a Miller Diversion 180 tig welder which I absolutely love. It was about $1800 but I figured it was my last welder forever so what the heck ( I am 64). If you decide to go w/ a mig, be sure to get a unit that runs w/ an argon tank. I have rented a mig a few times that used the flux core wire. The problem I had was that it took an 1/8-1/4 inch bead before the flux started putting out gas so the beginning of each weld was crap and a lot of times I was trying to tack something a few places before doing the final weld so all the tacks were crap. My only other recommendation is to get a good quality auto darkening helmet. That has made a world of difference for me and was worth every $.

[QSL]

So easy even a monkey can .... oops i mean wife can do it.

[1fastsedan]

I'm a hobby welder like you're planning on being. I bought a Miller 211 last year and absolutely love it! It works well on small stuff with the lower voltage and then you can step it up to 220 for the heavy duty stuff. I have used the Miller spool gun too to do some aluminum welds too and it also works great.

[chmasy]

I like TIG, No splatter no mess. anyways here you go, look here for info on all types.
Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info

[sejust2009]

I have a Lincoln Electric EasyMig 140, and I absolutely love this thing! I have a stick welder also, but the MIG is SO much easier to weld with. When I try to stick weld (no wonder they call it that) My welding rod is always STUCK ON the metal I am welding! I have never been trained to weld, just used them to make small projects. I realize that if I had any real welding skills, I could use the stick welder also. I use the Ar/CO2 mixed shielding gas for mild steel. The flux core wire works well and is very simple, but with the shielding gas, there is little to no slag and the welds look better. This welder is made for stock that is 24 gauge to 10 gauge (5/16") thick. You can buy a spool gun to use for Aluminum also with 100% Ar sheilding gas.

One other tip, no matter which welder you choose:
Buy an auto-darkening welding helmet! Another amazing invention... I cannot tell you how much this improves your welding also!

-Steve

[Cobra Cory]

You should be looking at something like the Miller Shopmaster. It is what I had in my shop. It was a beautiful machine and did absolutely everything you would ever want to do, all in one machine. (Lincoln makes multi-process welders as well.) But then I also had a Lincoln 250 mig which could roll around a bit easier. The miller could weld two semis together though.... You could always weld up your own cart too....

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...s/shopmate_dx/

Miller Shopmaster 300 CC/CV AC/DC Welder Stick, MIG, TIG on Single Phase Power! | eBay

[redmt]

Lincoln SP 175. All the welder you'll ever need. It will run any wire you care to feed it up to .035 either innershield or gas shielded. It also runs the smaller wire like butter. Spend the bucks on a decent machine. You'll be glad you did.

[Hoosier]

Like tires, this is a get what you pay for item. Figure out your absolute max budget for a welder and buy one in that price range. I'd be looking for a Miller...

[NiceGuyEddie]

the performance of a 120V "home" welder can depend on your outlet and electrical wiring in the house.

my little Lincoln barely worked when plugged into my garage outlet.

i moved it to my friend's shop, plugged it in, and BAZINGA - i was shocked at how well a 120V welder could work.

just something to consider.

[RyanH]

So Nobody is advocating for a 3 phase setup...I guess Ill look for a lightly used newer model..proboby 220 or a dual voltage model.

Thanks

[Hoosier]

You may want to look into the costs of keeping your 3-phase service vs single phase. Do some research on "demand metering" and also find out if you have a demand meter or not. Chances are you do and any "spike" in usage you incur for just and instant can greatly effect your entire monthly bill.

Single phase electric services are not set up this way...

[RyanH]

Originally Posted by Hoosier

You may want to look into the costs of keeping your 3-phase service vs single phase. Do some research on "demand metering" and also find out if you have a demand meter or not. Chances are you do and any "spike" in usage you incur for just and instant can greatly effect your entire monthly bill.

Single phase electric services are not set up this way...

I'll check into that. its been a non-commercial building for probably over a decade with previous owners just using it for storage or a shop..

[Big Blocker]

Ryan,

Hoosier is correct, your 3-Phase may be very expensive to keep as opposed to a single phase (normal) residential connection. If the property does not have the appropriate transformers on site, you'll be hard pressed to find (read: expensive) industrial equipment to use around your new shop.

If memory serves me correctly, 3-phase needs a "Y" transformer to produce the neutral leg and being that the shop used to be full-on industrial, it may even have 480 instead of 240. Not stuff you want to mess with if you're not completely comfortable with the higher voltages.

I would verify what is there and then decide which way to go.

Doc

[RyanH]

I'm pretty sure its 220. There's a lot of 110 stuff wired in..lighting and whatnot.

The last guy had used it for a cabinet shop..lots of woodworking tools..all were consumer brands I recognized hard to believe it is 480.

I found a site dedicated to people refurbishing old machinery..they go to great pains to get3 phase power...lots of cheap motors available apparently.

My neighbor in Vegas is retired electrician and his eyes lit up when I told him about it. He said I definitely wanted to keep it if I could. It all depends on the meter I guess...I'll check that out.

[J Persons]

Originally Posted by QSL

We have a miller 212 and its easy to use. But to be honest, i also have a hobart 140amp that works great. They are cheap too and made by miller. I also have a miller tig, but dont use it much due to my skill level. The migs are really easy for anyone to pick up and melt two pieces of metal together with.

Not to nitpick, but..Hobart welders are not made by Miller Electronics. If you see similarities in the two brands of welder, it's because Hobart and Miller are both made by Illinois Works, which makes a multitude of brands and products for the construction industry

[jammin1]

Hobart 140, runs on 110v and can also use gas

[Cobra Cory]

Don;t let us scare you away from getting a 3 phase welder. There are lots of them out there cheap, and chances are if the guy had the place wired for three phase there is a reason for it. I'm sure you could get records of the electrical useage at the address and see what the costs were or get an estimate from the utility company. Just do a little work and you'll know which way to go. Three phase is handy for wiring the shop as well You can use one phase for all the lights or alternating lights and plugs. That way if you have a line down issue you won;t lose all your lights or all your outlets. And spreading the 240 load can help take care of line interference. Say you have a welder on one set of lines and a computer on the other. You won't have issues with the computer as much and the welder stays off the 110 line. Just remember there is a lot of shed machinery that is 3 phase and such it is cheaper as not as many people want it. However when you go to sell....Not as many people want it.