Need some much needed parenting advice on a potentially ADD child.

[ROB J]

My son is 7 years old, and recently started second grade. By the end of the first week of school, the teacher (15 year veteran teacher) called me in for a parent teacher meeting. She told me she is very concerned about him, as he is very behind in class, has a hard time paying attention, and rarely finishes his work without direct one on one supervision. She's saying it is severe. At home I, too, experience very similar issues. He can be very hard headed, and can give me a hard time to do the simplest tasks with out me getting upset at him, or threatening/scolding him. Funny thing though, he is a very bright, observant, and alert kid. He reads well, and when I sit with him to do his homework, he usually does it well and correctly. (Although I have to constantly keep him in line to maintain focus) His mother is convinced the teacher hates him, has a personal vendetta against him, and is sabotaging his work. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. (She's the topic of another discussion)

To me, (as to the complete opposite of my sons mother) the teacher seems like a very concerned and caring teacher, whom just wants to help him as much as she can, so she won't have to hold him back. We all know a teacher can't offer one on one child teacher educating. I think my next step is to have him tested for ADD.

So, I come here for the advice of other parents here whom have been through this same ordeal whom can hopefully help me deal with this. Thanks.

[Hoosier]

Cognitive Training -vs- ADHD Meds or combination???

As for my own similar dilemma, start with that...

We consulted with her pediatrician and he referred us to a psychologist. Who in turn recommended the pediatrician prescribe medication.

We have seen immediate results. Not miraculous results, but results nonetheless. Hopefully over time we can dial her dosage in and get the most out of it.

We are still considering some cognitive training aids in conjunction.

[Hoosier]

I wouldn't put too much stock in what the teacher is saying. Maybe she's right, maybe she's not. I suggest you do as we did and discuss with your child's pediatrician and ask him/her to make a referral.

According to our pediatrician, the Psychologist we saw does not often recommend the meds which actually gave us a bit more confidence in a diagnosis that we were skeptical about before it was even given.

Our daughter's issue wasn't one of attention, rather it was one of comprehension and "executive function"(you'll learn about that in your studies of the diagnosis).

[NHolds]

Most schools have a separate teacher that helps out with ADD kids. The school my son goes to has such a teacher that helps out 5-10 students with a more of a one on one teaching time. I would sit down with the school and see what they can offer. Hate medicating kids for such a thing.

[mctavish]

Rob J, My son's situation was very similar to yours, even down to the grade. He's now 27 and in great shape. With ADHD, school was a challenge for him, right through high school. However, we took advantage of quite a few opportunities and adjustments the school system offered. Yes, he was on Ritalin for a while but not forever. It did take the edge off him, which was great for learning but not so good for socialization. Everyone knew he was a little "different" because he would be taken out of class for one on one several days a week. He still made friends and over time a positive learning style was developed that allowed him to keep up. He still found learning difficult and frustrating as he could not process new material as fast as the other kids and he always was seated in the front of the room so the teacher could redirect his attention (a subtle tap on the desk) if it wandered. He spent time in many learning labs during and after school where teachers would offer to go over the days lessons again after school for kids that "didn't get it". All of these things added up to an education that was still hard to achieve but in the end he did alright. Today, he is a professional welder,with a good job and many friends. He's getting married on Friday. I couldn't be prouder.

[Terrorist Hunter]

My kids aren't that old yet, however my wife was a teacher (spec. ed in CA, Spanish in Miami) who has some experience with ADD kids/special ed kids, and her sister is also a special ed teacher with an additional degree in behavior analysis of whatever sort. They talk about that stuff from time to time and when it comes down to it, frequently the teachers simply aren't able to devote the time that is necessary to help the kids learn and medicating has become the norm. It's good the teacher is concerned and it's worth a look but it could be nothing. My personal opinion from your observations is that you've got a smart, hardheaded kid and he might not be challenged in class. If he has to be supervised to do homework but he reads well at 7 and is usually correct in his homework, it would seem he might just be bored. If it takes threatening or scolding, which I know you hate to do, is there any other approach that's feasible to get his attention?

Re-reading, you say the teacher called YOU in and his mom is the total opposite. Where is mom at in the process, and how does he act around her?

[jimgood]

I know nothing about this other than basic human behavior. One thing I noticed is the pattern of acting out/misbehaving then getting one-on-one attention, which may be seen as getting a reward.

Then there's diet and exercise. Is it possible there are foods that are affecting him and is he getting enough exercise?

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by ROB J

My son is 7 years old, and recently started second grade. By the end of the first week of school, the teacher (15 year veteran teacher) called me in for a parent teacher meeting. She told me she is very concerned about him, as he is very behind in class, has a hard time paying attention, and rarely finishes his work without direct one on one supervision. She's saying it is severe. At home I, too, experience very similar issues. He can be very hard headed, and can give me a hard time to do the simplest tasks with out me getting upset at him, or threatening/scolding him. Funny thing though, he is a very bright, observant, and alert kid. He reads well, and when I sit with him to do his homework, he usually does it well and correctly. (Although I have to constantly keep him in line to maintain focus) His mother is convinced the teacher hates him, has a personal vendetta against him, and is sabotaging his work. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. (She's the topic of another discussion)

To me, (as to the complete opposite of my sons mother) the teacher seems like a very concerned and caring teacher, whom just wants to help him as much as she can, so she won't have to hold him back. We all know a teacher can't offer one on one child teacher educating. I think my next step is to have him tested for ADD.

So, I come here for the advice of other parents here whom have been through this same ordeal whom can hopefully help me deal with this. Thanks.

Rob,

Didn't you just go through a divorce? if so, then there may be underlying issues that the teachers (and you and your ex wife) are not seeing.

As for the ADD end of things, I know all about it first hand both with myself (I was the poster child (literally) for ADD back in the early 70's and the infancy of ADD research, and I still deal with ADHD on a daily basis), and our son. Testing has gotten better, as has the medications for which they now prescribe.

I highly suggest you look over the following online resources before taking your child to a psychologist (see your family doctor for a referral only, as they are not trained in the psychological aspects of ADD. Putting a child on medication without a complete psychological work up is not the answer)

Home | Attention Deficit Disorder Resources

ADHD handbook (pdf)

CDC - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorders (ADHD) Homepage - NCBDDD

Attention Deficit Disorder | ADHD Symptoms, Medication, Treatment, Diagnosis, Parenting ADD Children and More: Information from ADDitude

If you want to go an alternative route, check out the following:


Adult & Child ADD / ADHD: Attention Deficit & Hyperactivity Disorder

Wish you the very best.

Sincerely,

Bill S.

[Tim Burns]

Rob, Your description of your son matches mine except for the reading. My son Connor (now 10yrs) has mild ADD (no hyperactivity) He had no focus and was easily distracted, and when reading he had difficulty transitioning to the next line or when trying to figure out an unfamiliar word, he would loose his place or would see the start of a word and not finish reading it and would "assume" it was a different word. At first, we did a lot of occupational therapy and one on one, and I didn't want to immediately run for drugs. It helped but about 2 years ago after many talks with his pediatrician a psych consult & testing we started him on Concerta (27mg) and the effect was dramatic. The biggest side effect is his appetite. We have to struggle to get him to eat enough. Usually in the morning he is ravenous so we try to give him as much food as possible before school, His favorite is 2 eggs over easy and 4 pieces of toast. He doesn't eat much at lunch so we try to eat later in the evening (6-7PM) to allow the meds to wear off a bit and concentrate on getting protein & veggies in him. We also let him get a snack before bed. We took him off it all summer, to try and get him to gain some weight, and his focus has improved without meds but you can see the difference when he is taking it

[Bob Cowan]

ADD and ADHD is a lot more common than you might think. I don't know his teacher, but I would probably put a lot of stock in what she says. Testing and evaluation is certainly a good idea. In children, the difference between ADD and bipolar disorder is very subtle. There are a number of good web sites where you can find screening tests that can point you in the right direction.

There are a number of treatments available - cognative teaching, psychological treatments, and medications.

If his testing shows he does have ADD, then he needs help right away. He's already behind in his school work, and he can't afford to fall any further.

My recommendation is usually to start medication right away, as that can often provide a significant winthin the hour. And I really mean that - within the hour.

Then investigate other methods of treatment and disease control.

[LesMurray]

Don't discount diet as part of the treatment of ADHD. The modern American diet full of carbohydrates and refined sugars trigger a lot of ADD symptoms in kids (and adults).

A diet with more fats and less grains and sugar will do wonders.

[crash]

I 'm not saying that this is the answer, but you may also want to consider who he is hanging out with. Last year my son was "on the edge". He was getting Ds and Fs and we were getting calls from the teacher and principal frequently. It got so bad that my wife requested, and was granted permission to go and sit in the chair next to my son during class so that she could keep him focused and "in line". He did not care for that much, and while it worked in the short term, it really didn't seem to work, long term. He went right back to getting into trouble.

After last year, the school warned us that our child might be held back if it continues, and that there was also the possibility of him being asked to go to another school. This would suck as his older sister is also at the same school.

This year has been 180 degrees different! He is getting As and Bs. Matter of fact, ALL As except for two Bs in reading and spelling which is a function of him not doing what was needed the last couple years. My wife, bless her, spent the entire summer reading with him, and it really shows.

In any case, they actually kicked my sons cohort in antics out of the school, and this, combined with the attention of his mother, has really changed things for him.

Again, not saying this is THE issue, just offering a suggestion as to something else that might be helpful to look at and maybe address with the school.

I truly believe that the reason my son is still at that school is because the school saw that my son had a very good support structure and the issues were not just being ignored.

As others have suggested, I would make sure to talk to the school regularly so as to let them know you are not just ignoring the issue or blowing it off as someone seemingly attacking your child.

[Zulu]

My son was diagnosed around 6 , we tried everything, tried avoiding Meds as long as we could...... But...

Meds make a big difference , we even tried blind testing with Meds, as he did not know if he was being given his Meds or not. We then had weekly teacher meetings. His biggest issue is lack of time management and focus on other things, because he wants to be perfect. So last year he got a fail in math EOG, but we knew he had done so well during the year, we asked for an eval. He had 100% for the work he had completed , so they gave him the opportunity to rewrite with extra time and got 97%

Dose variations made lots of differences over the last 6 years,

Side effects , losses of appetite, trouble falling asleep. And if too high dose , zombie like reactions.

Positive, he is way above average , is now in an academically focussed school for kids in 97 percentile..... He is less moody as a pre teen now when on his Meds....
But homework can be a bear , getting him to stay at it , because by night the Meds have worn off.

Reading , always been a good reader if interested in the subject, but resists when it is a mandatory book he doesn't like. Writting was and remains an issue.

All the advice above is mostly on the money, get him evaluated but by a recommended pro , who has experience in ADD and ADHD. Teaching hospitals usually have special clinics, or groups as well. We belong to a support group and also are under supervision of the UNC behavioral unit where the Professor only deals in ADD and ADHD.

[AC Bill]

Originally Posted by Hoosier

I wouldn't put too much stock in what the teacher is saying. Maybe she's right, maybe she's not.

I agree with that statement..My Daughter had a public school teacher, tell her the same thing about one of my Grandsons. Shortly after, he was registered in a private school, where he excelled at his work, and gets rave reviews from his teachers.
Turned out he was likely simply bored of the previous teacher's, teaching methods. Sometimes it's the teacher, not the kid who is the problem..

[The Italian]

Forget the Ped doc.
Go directly to a occupational therapist (OT),someone who sees this every day.
There should be a facility somewhere near you.
They deal with minor and severe disabilities and PT physical therapy(your son does not need)
They can guide you on what to do

You don't want to dope up your kid,he is growing
Many of these people can observe his diagnosis right away
The diet thing is also a very good possibility along with an OT

[QSL]

Rob, From your description it sounds like you have a regular kid. My son (now 11) has been this way as well. Hates school and has issues with turning in his work and doing his work for that matter. He would rather play computer games. BUT the kid is wicked bright and when he does the work, he does well. Currently he is even in advanced classes, but its still a struggle to get him to do his work. You just need to stay on him and make sure his assignments are done. Kids are very un organized at that age. Our daughter was REALLY un-organized to the point we were really worried but by the time she hit 7th grade she really started to step up and now its not a problem at all.

Only YOU know if your kid has a problem or not. A teacher wont be able to tell you that.

Also on a slight side note and i know this will probably really sound wierd... BUT when we started to get into guns and got our children involved we really noticed how our son became more responsible. I think it helps with their mindset. Understanding what they have, what they need to do and what type of consequences they have if they are not careful. By far the best thing we ever did for our kids was to buy them guns and teach them safety with them and responsibility. We also use this as a reward for good grades. You know, get A's and B's and we will buy that AK47 you want

[RWbrown]

Both my kids had problems at first in school.

My son, now 14, stayed back in 2nd grade and it was the greatest thing for him. He never went on meds or anything. It was more of a maturity thing. He is in 8th grade now and taking advanced math classes.

My daughter, now 11, also stayed back in 2nd grade. She was really struggling with school work. After (and only after) exhaustive testing and counseling we put her on a very mild 10mg of Metadate. It has helped tremendously in her focus and work. Her teachers can even tell when she hasnt taken it. They say its like night and day.

Im usually not a drug kind of person but it has worked very well for my daughter.

[emac]

I would read John Rosemonds book "The Diseasing of America's Children" before I let a teacher "diagnose" my child.

[Someday I Suppose]

Agreeing a bit with QSL, from your own assesment as him being a bright and smart kid, I am wondering if his work suffers in all classes, or only certain subjects? To this day I struggle with subjects I just dont find all that interesting. In school, I did great with teachers who tried to make things interesting, but those teachers who just presented it matter of fact with no real relation to how or what this was useful for I would tune out in a heartbeat.

Mr Mustang's point about seperation in the house hold would also be something that I would keep an eye on to make sure thats not an underlying cause as well.

-Scott

[CobraDreaming]

I think you guys are being too hard on the teacher. From what Rob said she didn't "diagnose" him with anything nor is she qualified to. She just expressed her concern that there were some issues going on and was making Rob aware of what she sees going on with him. Sounds like a good teacher to me.

[emac]

Perhaps she is an excellent teacher. She has been teaching for 15 years, and during this time we have seen a tremendous increase in children on school performance enhancing medications. She has seen lots of kids get on meds and do better in her class that year. Has she followed those cases for fifteen years? Has she studied kids that refused meds and compared them? My point is, she could be an excellent teacher, and has the best interest of every child in mind, but by suggesting seeing a doctor or saying this has helped other kids, she is in fact steering the parent a certain direction. Combine this with a subjective ADHD test and companies and doctors making big bucks pushing meds and you get very confused parents. Unlike traditional diseases that show a positive or negative on a blood sample, culture, etc ADHD is diagnosed by a questionnaire. No "real" traditional medical test.

When do you stop the meds? When is he cured? What affect does this have on his self confidence? Future hurdles? I don't know and neither does anyone else. All I suggest is that every parent read as much as possible before medicating. "Diseasing of Americas children" is a good start . As a child who had a difficult time in school that ended up with a post-doctorate degree from an ivy league school, it is possible to overcome with only a loving family that believed in you and has taught you to believe in yourself.

[QSL]

We had a teacher tell us we had a problem with our son and that if he did not step up that he was going to be held back. Shortly after, we found out 80% of her class was in danger of being held back.

That was the only time our son was not at the top of his class.

[Michael Stora]

I'm not anti-ritalin--it can do a lot of good if you child really has ADHD and does not respond to other treatments. Be especially careful about potential misdiagnosis. Being born in 1970 I was smack dab in the middle of the over-diagnosis/over-treatment era and I always wonder if Ritalin may have contributed to me developing Tourette's Syndrome a few years later. There are several studies linking Ritalin and other strong stimulants to the onset of TS.

Mike

[crash]

Originally Posted by Michael Stora

I'm not anti-ritalin--it can do a lot of good if you child really has ADHD and does not respond to other treatments. Be especially careful about potential misdiagnosis. Being born in 1970 I was smack dab in the middle of the over-diagnosis/over-treatment era and I always wonder if Ritalin may have contributed to me developing Tourette's Syndrome a few years later. There are several studies linking Ritalin and other strong stimulants to the onset of TS.

Mike

I grew up at a race track...everyone has Tourette's there.

[highplainscobra]

A year ago my 9 yr old son's home room teacher notified my wife and I about similar issues with our son. DIsruptive, arguing, no focus, etc. We had him evaluated by a a Child Psychologist and he was diagnosed as ADHD, with a "focus" issue where he wasn't transitioning from one topic to the next in school, but no real hyperactivity. The Psych wanted to put him on a patch, which we were very hesitant about. His grades were OK.

We discussed it with our pediatrician who has written a fair number of books on raising kids, and he informed us that one of his three son's had ADHD. He said putting him on meds would be a last resort. His son was much more severe than my son. Diet played into it the remedy. We had to watch the sweets.

What he advised was a very structured day. We sat down with the teachers, principal, vice principal, school counselor and after school director to work out a game plan.

My son had 9 periods per day. After each period his teacher (he had a total of 3 for different classes) would give him a score of 1-4. One being bad, 2 being needs improvement, 3 satisfactory, 4 was good. I told him to look at it as a 9 inning baseball game and each period is an inning. If he got a 4 he got 1 run (won) for an inning, 3 was a tie in the inning, 2 or 1 he lost the inning. His goal at the end of the day was to at least tie the game (net to zero). The other issue was getting him to focus, which is a rather long post in itself. It amounted to giving him a heads up that a new topic was coming up in 10 minutes, then again in 5 minutes. THis allowed him to begin thinking about the next topic and starting the transition, rather than an abrupt change in topics.

Within a week his teachers said he was a brand new kid. After school every day the first topic of discussion was "how did you do in the game today?". It was our "private" way of discussing the day openly around other kids. The teachers were in on it and even they sometimes would tell me "he had a great game today" when I would pick him up.

Issues pop up from time to time, but he has become a much better kid all around, and he knows when he is going to have an event (where he might blow up). But he is doing really well in school, did well on all his state/district assessments, and has become an avid reader.

Can't speak to your situation, but I would encourage you to get him tested.

And it does take a concerned and involved parent to find success. You are doing the right thing...stay involved and don't stop.

[mrmustang]

Rob,

Any follow up or updates since the last time you posted to this thread?


Bill S.

[Michael Stora]

Originally Posted by crash

I grew up at a race track...everyone has Tourette's there.

I assume you are referring to coprolalia, a symptom found in 10% of people who seek treatment for Tourette's (6% for those who have only Tourette's not combined with something else). Since most cases are very mild and the more mild the case, the less likely someone is to seek treatment, the actual rate is probably much lower.

From my perspective it is bizarre and quite frustrating to see a condition being defined in the public's mind by an uncommon symptom.

Apparently the coprolalia rate at a race track is 100%

Mike

[Michael Stora]

Originally Posted by highplainscobra

A year ago my 9 yr old son's home room teacher notified my wife and I about similar issues with our son. DIsruptive, arguing, no focus, etc. We had him evaluated by a a Child Psychologist and he was diagnosed as ADHD, with a "focus" issue where he wasn't transitioning from one topic to the next in school, but no real hyperactivity.

This almost sounds like the opposite of ADD: OCD. I have a coworker who gets quite lost when the subjects change or tangents get explored and he has to start over the the beginning. He benefits from jotting down notes to remind him where he is/was in a subject.

Mike

[sharkxwife]

Dear ROB J,

I stand by my "same answer" that I've made on the forum for several years regarding parents who think their child is ADD/ADHD! ...

My son started taking Concerta for ADD around the 5th grade (he was about 11 YO) and went from D's and F's to A's and B's in less than one month! --I swear on my life and my Mother's soul, it was the BEST decision I made for him! --Especially when his father (my Ex) kept grounding him and telling him he was "lazy and not trying hard enough!" ...Even my Ex wound up apologizing to me when the difference appeared like 'night and day' and continued throughout his schooling!

In fact, especially during high-school years, EVERYONE could tell when he forgot to take his meds! --a hard thing to explain, but just the way he talked was so mis-jointed, after awhile, if you knew him, it was easy to see how well Concerta was working and keeping those thought-patterns together!

My son is now a Sophomore in a very private college majoring in Engineering with a 3.6 GPA. He stopped taking Concerta in May, 2012; "Mom, I don't need it anymore, my brain knows how to think without it!" --which is Exactly what his now-retired pediatrician said from "Day One"!! --Concerta was not a 'lifetime' of being on drugs once the learning process started to become normal. Additionally, he doesn't drink Coffee or use 'energy drinks' (such as Red Bull and the like). He now states he doesn't need or want a "Mental Boost".

My son is doing perfectly fine and drug-free!

Concerta did it's job while he needed it.

Take my experience for what it's worth. --It's not a life-time commitment to give your child a step-up!

Many Blessings,

Lisa

[SloW8]

A couple of good books, Driven to Distraction and Delivered from Distraction.

My kid was recently diagnosed at age 11. He started on Vyvance which is a fancy version of Aderol. Huge change in a positive way within the first day. We are doing a lot of things outside of medication, but studies show that medication has a much much better result than other therapies.