'69 SS/RS Camaro, what's it worth?

[Chief]

OK, I have a chance to possibly trade my neighbor my '06 Custom built Harley Road Glide for his '69 SS/RS camaro.

From my research, I know the car was built in Van Nuys, Ca. Because of that and the way that factory did their trim tags, you can't tell if it's a real SS or not. But the guy who sold the car to my neighbor said it was. The engine has been swapped out for a '69 truck 350 so it's not original and makes it even harder to tell of the SS designation.

It does have all the right markings and the front disc brakes. The hood is a all steel cowl induction hood, which was an option back then. It has all of the RS package, side vent chrome, back up lights below the bumper, etc, except for the console gauges are missing along with the high back bucket seats.

According to the trim tag, it was originally Cortez silver with a vinal roof. The vinal roof was removed when it was painted a dark gray and it now sports black SS stripes. It has a TH350 tranny.

The only issue I have found so far, other than a relocated battery in the trunk, is according to a camaro web site I found, they say that the style of trim tag that the car has was not used on cars with this low of a serial number. Could that be an issue or just a mistake on the website.

I know my neighbor paid 13K for the car and it has a fresh paint job. I know I coulkd sell my bike for about 15K if I really tried. So does it sound like a decent trade? Anything I should really be looking for on the car?

[CraigS]

To me there is just too much wrong w/ it from an originality standpoint. Not that it isn't a decent car, but I don't think it will appreciate much.

[Robert 2006]

See attached file from Hagerty Price Guide, hope that helps.

[Hoosier]

Originally Posted by CraigS

To me there is just too much wrong w/ it from an originality standpoint. Not that it isn't a decent car, but I don't think it will appreciate much.

Agree, but...

It may not appreciate "much", but once you do figure out it's actual value it won't depreciate. However the Harley will...

[Chief]

Thanks for the sheet Robert. From their description I'd say it's a #3 car. So with a 25% plus up for a SS/RS, it's a 35-40 K car. That's good to know.

Now I just have to get him to do the trade. If he's really serious, which he sounds like he is, I'll do some more looking at the car and drive it. I'm going to tune it up for him next week and will get to drive it and go over it more then when I have it over in my garage.

The bad part for now is the economy, prices are just not holding on anything. My bike would easily be a 25K bike if the market was there, but it's not. There's THAT much custom work done to it. But a classic car is a different story as far as value goes.

If the trade dosen't work out, no big deal. I'll still get to ride my bike and I'm sure I can borrow the car on occasion if I really wanted to.

[rjjablo]

Originally Posted by Chief

So with a 25% plus up for a SS/RS, it's a 35-40 K car. .

For your 15K bike

Ask the Question Why?

[rokfor]

I would definitely do the trade.

Rob

[Technic-Fan]

Originally Posted by Chief

Thanks for the sheet Robert. From their description I'd say it's a #3 car. So with a 25% plus up for a SS/RS, it's a 35-40 K car. That's good to know.

If it can be documented as a REAL SS...but from what you posted initially, it very well could be a clone...so safer bet is to value it as a non-SS V8 with the +20% RS bump...don't assume you can find the next guy willing to assume it's probably an SS and pay as such.

(And note that pricing sheet is for SS models, not base coupes...so you'd need to get hold of the base pricing sheet to calculate a SS vs non-SS pricing comparison.)

Still sounds like a great deal, especially for a rot-free California car...but if he's willing to take $15K value, that should be your key that it's likely a clone and NOT an actual $35K Camaro SS/RS.

[Dan Babb]

In this market, I doubt it's a $35-40k Camaro. You can find numbers matching cars going for that price range (or just a bit over).

I agree that it would hold value better than the bike though. Without the original drivetrain, I doubt that it being an original RS/SS or not really has much impact on the value, so don't let that really sway your decision to do the deal.

Sounds like it would be a cool car to get and then do some modifications so it will handle a lot better. New front suspension part, bolt in steering rack conversion and a bolt in 4 link for the rear would make it handle way better and be more fun to drive. Maybe you can do all that for $5-10k, so it's not a total budget killer if you do it in stages.

Because the car isn't original, doing those mods won't hurt the value of the car either.

[joyridin']

Sounds kind of like an even swap if you can't verify what the car is. Besides, the original engine is gone, so even if you could verify it as an SS, it isn't numbers matching.

Do you like the car? Have you wanted one? Are you going to drive it? If yes, then grab it.

[kobrak]

But I thought you could send the VIN in to some GM website and get the built sheet that would tell you what the car is? For a fee of course. Also, trim tag should also help identify the car. Should be able to tell if the trim tag has been tampered with.


Camaro VIN, Cowl Tag, and other Numbers Decoding

[Dago]

First things first: check here to find what the market is CarsOnline.com: Camaros Cars For Sale

What is anything worth? What someone is willing to pay for it.

The market on muscle cars is still very soft. A non-numbers matching, non-original, non documented GM muscle car is just like anything else: Not worth much. You can guess all day long what the car originated as 40 years ago, but without documentation -its simply a guess, -and you can't market 'Guesswork' when selling a car.

rjjablo has it right: why would someone trade a $35,000 car for a $13,000 motorcycle thats falling faster in value than the car??? No one leaves that kind of money on the table.

...and don't calculate what a car is worth based upon how much someone has put into it: receipts don't equate value/equity. Fair Market Value is exactly that = FAIR

[conmech]

Z22 Rally Sport Package and Z27 Camaro Super Sport Package would be numbers to look for. Locate the build sheet (if possible, usually under the rear seat) and cross reference the numbers in the first link below.

1969 CHEVROLET CAMARO Information Specifications Resources Pictures

Welcome To The NEW Camarosource.ca - Internet's Largest Most Complete Camaro Resource Site

[Chief]

Thanks for the inputs guys.

Yes I know a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Like I said, he got the car on a deal, paid 13K for it with a new paint job.
The car was built in Van Nuys as per the VIN and the Trim tag. Unfortunatly Van Nuys did not use the X code to denote a SS. There is nothing on their trim code that will tell you it is a true SS. There are no GM records to run the VIN on that will tell you it is a SS. About the only thing that will is the original Protect-o-plate, if it can be found.

It does have the correct front disc which were on the SS and I'm going to check the rear which should be a 12 bolt for the SS. It has all of the correct interior and exterior SS markings along with the correct RS markings. So if it is a clone, someone did a good job at makeing it a clone and let it go for cheap.

I should get the car on Wed to do some work on it for him and to check it out. It's a great looking car from what I've seen so far. I'll make a final decision on the trade after I get the chance to really look it over. If I do the trade, yes it will be driven. I don't do trailer queens.

As for my bike, it's a full up custom build that I did. I've got about 35K into the build.

[Dan Babb]

Print out this page...it will help you with the visual decode a bit.
CRG Visual ID 1969 Model HyperTable

There are a few things that can help you spot an RS car too.
Look on this page: Camaro Factory Options

Take a bunch of pictures and if you still have questions, post them over at Camaros.net. There are some guys there that can spot a recreation in a heartbeat.

[PhoneGuy]

Originally Posted by Chief

Nice scoot. I would do the trade in a heart beat. The 06 RG has the older frame and engine mounts and the difference between the 06 and anything after 09 is night and day. They handle better, ride smoother, stop better, larger gas tank, better engine. The change or improvements to technology that HD has done would make it easy for me. Just my .02. Good luck.

[ROB J]

Unless something is not right, and that Camaro is full of Bondo, seems like a no brainer trade. Bike will depreciate, car not. I'd be a bit worried about a 69 Camaro with a "Fresh" paint job. eh hmmm, lots of new bondo which still looks good for the moment.

Any pics of the car you can post here?

[Chief]

I'll get some pics when I work on it. Or just walk next door and take them.

That's one of the things I wanted to check on the body was to see if it's full of bondo or not.

[ROB J]

Originally Posted by Chief

I'll get some pics when I work on it. Or just walk next door and take them.

That's one of the things I wanted to check on the body was to see if it's full of bondo or not.

A small magnet is your friend.

[Chief]

Originally Posted by ROB J

A small magnet is your friend.

Yep.

[Chief]

OK I got to spend some time with the car yesterday. He has a lot of papers and recipts for the car. Car was built and sold in LA. Second buyer paid 11K for it and used it during his college days before making money and moving to Santa Barbara. Car sat for many years. Current owner, my neighbor, recently bought it for 13K. He knows the guy really well that he bought it from. He's always buying and selling cars and such. One paper he has I beleive is from the original owner that says it is a true SS/RS and not a clone. I want to go thru his papers when I get the chance. Overall it's a good driver, not a show car or numbers matching. IF it is a clone, someone did a damn good job at it.







Body: Seems to be pretty straight. Paint looks good albiet not a show paint job. But a good daily driver paint. I only found bondo in the middle of the passenger door around the door crease. No other bondo anywhere that one would expect to find it. So either the car didn't have bad cancer or it was replaced with sheet metal. Also this is the second repaint of the car. First was to go from factory silver to burgandy. Also it has all of the correct SS and RS markings and parts. The RS on the grill was recently added on but does not go. The front nose upper and lower sheet metal was replaced as it was dented on the nose but the grill is original. SS stripes are on the hood and trunk but not the roof. The holes for the 350 emblem on the front fender have been filled in.



Undercar: From the looks under the car, it's all original. Front disc and 12 bolt rear. From the paper work, they replaced the stock sway bar with a bigger one, added lowering springs to the front and deacrched the rear leafs. Slapper bars were added. Rims are aftermarket 15" with original center cap.

Engine: is a 350 and runs well. The numbers stamped on the front of the block I came out with say a '69 truck. But his paperwork shows a '89 corvette LT1. So I need to do a little mor research. Has AFR heads, HEI dist, eldebrock intake and carb and headers. TH 350 tranny.





Interior: Has all of the stock stuff except the center console gauges. Seats were recently redone as it seems the previous owners girlfriend took a knife to the seats. Gee, that never seems to hapen. ODO shows 11K miles so I can only assume that it's rolled once and that is 111K miles. I'd have to check the DMV paperwork and see for sure. The only thing I'm not sure of is that there is no tach on the right side of the dash. Maybe it was installed in the console gauge pack. Got to do a little more research. It does have factory air. ( just found a few pictures and the gauges are correct. No tach or clock was availble on the SS)

Overall: Car starts and drives nice. Brakes are good. It seems to shift quick when going slow but will stay in gear longer if you get on the gas. It rides nice and has only minor slop in the steeringwheel. It dosen't look like the suspension has been touched other than the springs and sway bar, which is missing some end link bushings that wore out. Mootor runs smoothly and seems to be a basic stock build, no high HP motor here. But it will move along fairly quick.

So I told him again last night after we were done working on it/driving it that the trade was stil on the table. Ball is now in his court. We'll see what happens.

[TNCobra]

Not a Camaro guy, but that car is worth every bit of $13k as described. I hope it goes through for you.

[Dan Babb]

Looks nice. I'd make the trade in a heartbeat...if he's talking about an even swap. The chances of the economy getting so strong that you could get 30k for your bike are pretty slim.

The tach was an option on all the cars...just because it's an SS doesn't mean it had to come with a tach. I've seen z/28's that didn't have a tach.
If you got the tach, then you had to have the center console too.

Does look like it has all the right RS trim pieces. How do the rear back-up lights look? Maybe unscrew one and make sure the opening looks factory stamped.

[conmech]

My only is the RS and SS tags on the front grill. SS/RS normally came with SS ONLY:
1969 camaro rs ss identification - Google Search







Best of luck on the deal.

[Technic-Fan]

Originally Posted by conmech

My only is the RS and SS tags on the front grill. SS/RS normally came with SS ONLY:

Correct...SS badging trumped RS badging...basically the SS was a mechanical (performance) package and the RS was a visual (upgraded trim) package...

[Technic-Fan]

Originally Posted by Chief

Engine: is a 350 and runs well. The numbers stamped on the front of the block I came out with say a '69 truck. But his paperwork shows a '89 corvette LT1. So I need to do a little mor research. Has AFR heads, HEI dist, eldebrock intake and carb and headers. TH 350 tranny.

No such thing as an '89 Corvette LT1...it would have been an L98 Tuned Port Injection motor...the LT-1 (Gen II smallblock with reverse-cooling & opti-spark) was '93-'96...

At this point you have 2X repaint...redone interior...non-original motor...so any 'true SS' value is pretty well gone...no way you're going to be able to get it back to numbers-matching stock for Barett Jackson. Consider the deal on whether it's fair for a solid, V8, '69 Camaro...

[conmech]

And with the interior being redone, slim chance of finding the build sheet under/behind the rear seat (IIRC), on the top of the gas tank, behind door panels, inside the headliner, under the carpet or stuck up under the dash. Time to dig into the interior again, lol.

1969 build sheet??? - Worldwide Camaro Club Forums


"I have yet to find one on a Norwood car. So far most of LA cars I have restored were on the left top portion of the gas tank."

RE: Build sheet location - Team Camaro Tech

[conmech]

Originally Posted by Technic-Fan

No such thing as an '89 Corvette LT1...it would have been an L98 Tuned Port Injection motor...the LT-1 (Gen II smallblock with reverse-cooling & opti-spark) was '93-'96...

At this point you have 2X repaint...redone interior...non-original motor...so any 'true SS' value is pretty well gone...no way you're going to be able to get it back to numbers-matching stock for Barett Jackson. Consider the deal on whether it's fair for a solid, V8, '69 Camaro...

1989 Corvette Engines

Engine

HP/TQ

0-60

Quarter Mile
5.7L V-8 L98
240 HP @ 4000 RPM
345lb-ft @ 3200 RPM
6.3 sec
15.1 sec @ 93mph
5.7L V-8 L98 Twin Turbo
345 HP
465lb-ft
N/A
N/A
Back to top

1989 Corvette VIN Decoder

Engine Codes
ZRA
5.7L V-8 L98 240 HP, 350ci

[Mike Forte]

Hi,
If this is a California rust free car the trade or price is worth it....
I hate to pick but the emblem would be a SS not RS. The SS package overrode the RS package.
The car should have a 12 bolt rearend and frt disc brakes. Does it have a cowl induction air filter to match the cowl hood.

[SeanHM]

I would trade my last 3 bikes together for that. But I LOVE 69 Camaros. I could personally care less about it being a clone or not. I like an RS/SS because it was the best looking version. Sure an original car is always going to be worth more, but then it was a 427 Yenko you'd be afraid to drive it anywhere and could't afford to insure or repair it. The Harley market is FLOODED. And as beautiful as your bike is, it has a more narrow appeal than a clean 69 Camaro. Damn California guys and your rust free cars.