Ford F350 or Dodge 3500? Who has experience with either?

[Darren]

Ok, we have picked out a travel trailer. This is becoming a reality. Time to get rid of my F150 half ton in favor of a towing rig. The trailer has a gross weight rating of 10,000 pounds. 1 ton trucks are about the same price as 3/4 ton trucks these days so I'm going 1 ton.

I love the look of the Fords. Not terribly familar with the 6.7 diesel Ford is producing. I like the Dodge as well and know Cummins is a good engine. I've seen the tough truck results and know Dodge comes in last but I still think they are good trucks.

I also know with Dodge you can remove the engine without removing the cab. Ford, not so much.

Dodge is less expensive. I can deal with a few less options with Ford. Both have a torque rating of 800. The Dodge numbers are questionable, Ford seems to be able to back it up. I don't need to rip a house off it's foundation but wouldn't mind the option to do so.

What say you? I'm not looking for a brand war. I want to hear what you know about these vehicles from real world experience. I'm about to pull the trigger on one or the other and am looking for any "gotchas" with either. I know both will have their faults. Dodge in 2012 doesn't have DEF but I'm not afraid of DEF. It actually gets you better fuel economy due to reduced need for EGR. Ford is 8 cylinders, Dodge is 6. The Dodge is so damn quiet you can't tell it is a diesel. Ford isn't terribly noisy but you know it is a diesel. I'm ok with either when it comes to noise.

I'm a Ford guy. I like Dodge but would prefer to buy Ford both because I prefer Ford and because they didn't take a bail out, but only if it is the better choice. I've owned several Ford trucks and one Dodge. Loved them all but have never owned a diesel 1 ton.

Thanks!
Darren

[conger]

I've owned a couple of Superdutys now. I'm won't go on a big rant on which is the better truck. Ford, Dodge & GM all have great trucks. They all pull like the beasts they are. All get similar mileage. I'm a Ford guy, it is just what prefer. My advice is test drive what you like and go for the best deal. We pull a 30' trailer and still manage about 13 mpg. For pulling you just can't beat the diesels. Good luck with your purchase.

Gerry

Sent from my HTC Vision using AutoGuide.Com Free App

[ICED1124]

Do a google search on "ford 6.7 problems"...you will never own a Ford again.
I owned a 2005 F350 XLT with a 6.0 After 22K miles, it needed a new Turbo, EGR, Computer and so on.... about 5 grand worth of work. I dumped that truck as fast as I could.

I also understand that the fords now have a uv sensor in the fuel system to look for the red dye found in off road fuels (heating oil).......Happened to a buddies client. His truck was only a few months old... Truck went dead, DOA...ford wanted HUGE money to fix it. Fords reply.....READ THE FINE PRINT.
RUN from FORD as fast as you can....

[trevor]

Ive had 5 dodge diesel trucks. My 2nd and 3rd are still in the family driven by my dad and younger brother. Cummins is a tried and true engine. They make some of the best diesels in the world. Dont get caught up in the magazine test crap. They are all tough trucks. I have personal experience with long term use. My brothers 01 has 200k on it. He had a turbo waste gate controller repair and a secondary fuel pump repair. I have had 5 trucks to 150k and never did anything but change the filters, oil, tires and brakes. My dads 04 has 190k and he has had no problems at all. I currently have a 2011 3500 mega cab dually and love it. It is the best truck I have owned so far. I feel Ford experiments too much. As an engineer, I think it is completely ridiculous to come in and design your own diesel from scratch. It takes decades to refine and complete a engine design. Take the experience that is already there, go chevy/isuzu or dodge/cummins. A good friend of mine bought a Ford 2500 diesel about 3 yrs ago. He said couldnt afford a Dodge. They were significantly more. That was his first choice.

95 2500 regular cab long bed diesel
01 2500 laramie slt plus club cab short bed diesel
04 2500 slt quad cab short bed diesel
08 2500 big horn quad cab long bed diesel
11 3500 big horn mega cab short bed diesel

If you are buying used, I would recommend pre emissions 07 and older.

Dodge doesnt use a DEF additive system. They have a raw fuel recirculation system to burn the soot out of the filters. I believe this system cost you about 1 mpg. I get an average of 14.5 mph with the dually mega cab and the 08 emissions truck, 15.5 and the older trucks were about 17mpg.

[Darren]

Wow, great info guys. I had no idea the new Ford diesel was having issues. I'll read up more. I know the 6.0 and 6.4 were crap.

From the sound of it, Dodge is the one. I'll do further investigation and keep up on this thread through the weekend.

I was looking at the Mega Cab but it does indeed look funny unless you go with the dually... it looks awesome on the dually but really out of place on the single rear wheels.

[Hoosier]

Is there a big price difference between the dually and single? For resale value, I wouldn't consider a 1-ton in anything other than a dually.

Did I mention Chevrolet has a better ride. Since your looking 1-ton now instead of 3/4, that should be even more of a consideration.

[BS]

The one ton trucks are going to ride a bit rougher when not towing a load, so if you decide to drive it around town you'll feel the difference. Also, the one ton vehicles aren't going to get the gas milage the 3/4 ton units are going to get.

The one tons should be great tow vehicles and ride great when loaded.

The Mega cabs are huge, but try parking one in a parking lot sometime. You'll be parking way out of the way just make sure you can get in/out of the truck and not get blocked in. The Cummins have been around forever and just seem to keep going. They are just getting broken in at 250K miles.
Some of our family have bought Dodge and Ford trucks over the years, but they always come back to the Chevy with Duramax/Allison after a couple years. My next truck will also be a Chevy diesel for towing. For now, my 2003 with 6.0 gas works fine for towing my trailer.

Bob

[edhunter]

I bought my 07 dodge 3500 4x4 two years ago with 196k mile on the odometer for 17k. I bought it strictly to pull my 40' car hauler. It's the laramie edition, full leather, etc. It's got an aftermarket tuner and gets around 12mph hauling the loaded trailer. Current milage is 203k. Couldn't be happier since I don't tow often. I couldn't see spending $$$$ to tow 6-7 times per year...

[Hoosier]

Consumer Reports Overall Rating For 3/4-Ton Diesel Trucks:

Chevrolet - 69 / 100
Ford - 65 / 100
Dodge - 49 / 100

The 1/2-ton gas powered Avalanche scored the highest of all trucks tested by CR...just edging out the Honda Ridgeline. Toyota Tundra was not tested...

I'm really not usually a big Chevy advocate, but it seems they are worth a look as they must be doing something right...

[Darren]

Originally Posted by BS

The one ton trucks are going to ride a bit rougher when not towing a load, so if you decide to drive it around town you'll feel the difference. Also, the one ton vehicles aren't going to get the gas milage the 3/4 ton units are going to get.



Bob

Why do you feel the one ton will get less mileage? It is the same truck as the 3/4 ton with an extra leaf is all. Something I'm missing?



Other thoughts on some of the things discussed:
As far as dually vs singe. I want nothing to do with a dually. No need at this time and don't want the parking hassles. And it won't fit in my home garage or work parking garage 1 tons sell pretty well here in WA state. They are all over the road in single rear wheel config here.

Chevy... probably not going to happen. I don't like the interior or exterior. I have to like the look of the truck to be completely happy with it. I suppose it isn't 100% out of the question but I really am not a Chevy fan.

Mega cab... yep. Probably going to avoid it. That extra 20" really makes the truck feel long. Will stick with the Crew and 6.5' box.

[Darren]

Originally Posted by Hoosier

Consumer Reports Overall Rating For 3/4-Ton Diesel Trucks:

Chevrolet - 69 / 100
Ford - 65 / 100
Dodge - 49 / 100

The 1/2-ton gas powered Avalanche scored the highest of all trucks tested by CR...just edging out the Honda Ridgeline. Toyota Tundra was not tested...

I'm really not usually a big Chevy advocate, but it seems they are worth a look as they must be doing something right...

Hm, I'll have to read up on that. What year does that report cover? Dodge keeps coming in at the bottom of these things but I can't find much to back it up. Nothing to point to as the reason why.

[Bob Cowan]

I bought a '07 Dodge 2500 3/4 ton about 3 years and 50K miles ago. Got it used with about 29K miles on it.

Ford has the best chassis and interior - I think the ergonomics and seats are great.
Chevy has the best transmission - the 6 speed Allison is pretty darned good.
Dodge has the best engine - Cummins TD is clearly the best anywhere in the world.

Now, if you could mix the best parts of all three.....

Anyway, Consumer reports rates the Dodge pretty low. I trust CR on a lot of things, and usually start my research there. But be careful about the ratings - look at what the trucks are being scored on. That rating even includes points for styling and comfort.

When I bought mine, I went out and test drove trucks that had about 100K miles on them. I wanted to see how they fared over the years. This is what I found:

- Chevy - nice interior, driveline ran really well, no turbo lag and excellent power. But the suspension was terrible! It actually scared me when I turned the wheel and nothing happened.

- Ford - driveline was good; smooth and quiet with good power. Suspension seemed to be good, with a nice ride and good handling. The seats were a little worn but comfy. But the interior was falling apart. Shift lever was loose, knobs falling off, plastic bits broken, etc. Lots of rattles and squeaks.

- Dodge- Very noticeable turbo lag when cold, which goes away in 10-15 minutes. Engine ran great, transmission shifted smoothly, excellent linear power. Suspension solid with good handling in the corners. Interior is Blah, and seats not that comfy. But at 100K miles, it was intact, solid, and not rattles.

All three brands have their achilles heel; a little internet research will reveal them. For the Dodge, it's the transmission. Lots of them fail at less than 40K miles. I had mine rebuilt at 35K miles - under warrenty. So far, it's holding up well.

[Olli]

I have an '11 F250 CrewCab 4x4 6.7L diesel with an 8' box. 18,500 miles and zero issues. On the highway the truck is extremely smooth and quiet.

When truck shopping keep this in mind with the Ford. If you go with the CrewCab diesel and the 6.5' box the fuel tank is only about 26 gallons. If you get the 8' box the tank is 37.5 gallons. The difference in cost was $190. when I bought mine. I am well aware about aftermarket tanks (about 50 gallons) for the 6.5' box that run around $1K. Some guys report issues with proper sealing of the aftermarket tank and have had water issues in their fuel.

That extra 11 gallons of fuel, especially when towing, means a lot.

The long box (or what most would call a normal box) does come with the penalty of maneuverability within town. All of the extra length is in the wheelbase. But boy does it ever ride nice on the highway.

Just wanted to bring the fuel tank capacity to your attention as it is easily something that can be over looked. Overall I am very pleased with the '11 Ford with the 6.7l it blows my old '07 F250 6.0l out of the water. Night and day difference.

Olli

[Darren]

Originally Posted by Olli

I have an '11 F250 CrewCab 4x4 6.7L diesel with an 8' box. 18,500 miles and zero issues. On the highway the truck is extremely smooth and quiet.

When truck shopping keep this in mind with the Ford. If you go with the CrewCab diesel and the 6.5' box the fuel tank is only about 26 gallons. If you get the 8' box the tank is 37.5 gallons. The difference in cost was $190. when I bought mine. I am well aware about aftermarket tanks (about 50 gallons) for the 6.5' box that run around $1K. Some guys report issues with proper sealing of the aftermarket tank and have had water issues in their fuel.

That extra 11 gallons of fuel, especially when towing, means a lot.

The long box (or what most would call a normal box) does come with the penalty of maneuverability within town. All of the extra length is in the wheelbase. But boy does it ever ride nice on the highway.

Just wanted to bring the fuel tank capacity to your attention as it is easily something that can be over looked. Overall I am very pleased with the '11 Ford with the 6.7l it blows my old '07 F250 6.0l out of the water. Night and day difference.

Olli

Made a note of it. I'll be sure and take the fuel tank size into consideration.

[Hoosier]

PM me your email.

I printed the CR docs to PDF. I'll send them over to you.

[Darren]

My 3 decision points (currently):

1. The Ford 6.7l Diesel is new and pretty much unproven. If it is solid it sounds like a good option. I need to read up on peoples experiences although I fear there won't be many that have a lot of miles on them yet.

2. The Dodge has been rated pretty low in most shoot outs and consumer reports. If I like the truck and it is mechanically sound and up to the task that doesn't matter much. I'm ok if the competition can out brake me by 10 feet or out accelarate me slightly. I just want a good reliable truck that feels nice. If the low marks are for quality or reliability I will be concerned.

3. Both trucks in 2012 have exceptional interior. Decked out the Dodge is now among the leaders in comfort and luxury in their trucks. It rivals my new Infiniti FX35. The Ford is nothing to sneeze at but could be considered gaudy by some. I like it but it has a lot of flash. I think the interior and comfort are a tie between the two.


I need to do some research to figure out which one above is right for me.

Please keep the experiences coming. It really does help. My main goal is to buy a mechanically sound truck. The last thing I need is to buy an expensive nightmare.

[Darren]

Originally Posted by Hoosier

PM me your email.

I printed the CR docs to PDF. I'll send them over to you.

Awesome, PM sent. Thanks!

[Big-Foot]

Originally Posted by Bob Cowan

I bought a '07 Dodge 2500 3/4 ton about 3 years and 50K miles ago. Got it used with about 29K miles on it.

Ford has the best chassis and interior - I think the ergonomics and seats are great.
Chevy has the best transmission - the 6 speed Allison is pretty darned good.
Dodge has the best engine - Cummins TD is clearly the best anywhere in the world.

Now, if you could mix the best parts of all three.....

Anyway, Consumer reports rates the Dodge pretty low. I trust CR on a lot of things, and usually start my research there. But be careful about the ratings - look at what the trucks are being scored on. That rating even includes points for styling and comfort.

When I bought mine, I went out and test drove trucks that had about 100K miles on them. I wanted to see how they fared over the years. This is what I found:

- Chevy - nice interior, driveline ran really well, no turbo lag and excellent power. But the suspension was terrible! It actually scared me when I turned the wheel and nothing happened.

- Ford - driveline was good; smooth and quiet with good power. Suspension seemed to be good, with a nice ride and good handling. The seats were a little worn but comfy. But the interior was falling apart. Shift lever was loose, knobs falling off, plastic bits broken, etc. Lots of rattles and squeaks.

- Dodge- Very noticeable turbo lag when cold, which goes away in 10-15 minutes. Engine ran great, transmission shifted smoothly, excellent linear power. Suspension solid with good handling in the corners. Interior is Blah, and seats not that comfy. But at 100K miles, it was intact, solid, and not rattles.

All three brands have their achilles heel; a little internet research will reveal them. For the Dodge, it's the transmission. Lots of them fail at less than 40K miles. I had mine rebuilt at 35K miles - under warrenty. So far, it's holding up well.

Like you, I wish I could mix elements of all three. But that's not likely to happen even though there were rumors of Cummins possibly selling to the small truck markets of Ford and Chevy - I doubt it will ever come to fruition.

The handling you experienced with the Chevy was not unlike whatI found. Until - we aired up the tires. Something about those tires with only 30 PSI in them made the truck ride very nice, but yes, you had to start your turn early and wait for the tires to catch up to the chassis. Once aired up to 42 PSI, the ride was not as good, but the truck was far more responsive (although I won't say nimble) to steering inputs. This was on a 3/4 ton HD crew cab with Duramax and Allison (which I really loved)..
My friend bought the truck and it is breaking in now so no news on fuel economy other than it's slightly better than we expected for a new truck. He said it moves around between 14 and 15 around town and his only highway trip so far he got 20. Almost all empty time on it so far although next weekend he will be towing a 10k trailer about a thousand miles which should get a good start on break-in.

If I sell my Avalanche, I would have to really consider the new Chevy Duramax/Allison truck.

[Hoosier]

Originally Posted by Darren

Awesome, PM sent. Thanks!

You should have them. Hope they are informative. I didn't look into them other than the overall ratings for each...

[Darren]

Originally Posted by Hoosier

You should have them. Hope they are informative. I didn't look into them other than the overall ratings for each...

Yep, got it. Thank you very much!

Here is an example why I can never make heads or tails of consumer reports:

They gave the Dodge and Chevy turbo diesel the best rating they have which is a full red circle. Then in the details of the article they say the exact same thing for both Dodge and Chevy: "Reliability of the turbo diesel version is well below average".

Seriously? What am I supposed to make of that?

They also state the Ford is really quiet and the Dodge is noisy. I found just the opposite. I couldn't even tell the Dodge was a diesel. The Ford was far from noisy but still had that clackity clack of a diesel and was noticeably louder inside and out.

Then there is the "stiff" ride they claim for the Dodge. I drove the 2500 and the 3500 and they rode VERY nice. The Ford was similar, maybe a little smoother but not by much, you'd have to hop out of one and into the other to detect any real difference in ride quality as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, I keep getting confused by the inconsistency in message from consumer reports and while you have to give it some weight, I wonder how poorly they interpret the data. Based on the contradictions in their ratings it makes me wonder.

I feel like no matter what choice I make, it will be the wrong one.

Grasshoppa... the choice you must make is not to make a choice at all. No choice is the good choice.

[Stinson Pilot]

I've got 360k on my Dodge. Still love it. Rides good and the interior is still in great shape.

If you look at the big rigs on the road, and even ships huge diesels...they're all straight six's. Bullet Proof!

The 8's are getting better, but I don't think they'll ever be what a straight six can be.

Just my thoughts. Also ,my last Ford F-150 was a 300 straight six just for that very reason.

[dodgestang]

I have owned many Dodges. I tried to buy Fords Twice. Both times I left the dealerships in disgust over price and general demeanor of sales people.

1997 2500 Gasser quad cab short bed auto (5.7 and 38 inch tires)
2005 3500 Dually Diesel quad cab long bed auto (5.9)
2008 2500 Diesel quad cab short bed auto (6.7)
2008 3500 Dually Diesel Mega Cab short bed manual (6.7)

I used to look back at my 5.9 like it was the good old days since I traded it in on the 2500 6.7. I hated that truck so I dumped it and moved back into a dually, but got the mega cab and a stick. It was fun but I always liked the 5.9 better because it wasn't choked down with emissions stuff. Then I changed upgraded the 6.7 Now I need ladder bars. With the changes to the 6.7 mega I pull in 20-21 mpg cruising without a trailer on the freeway at 65-70. Before that regardless of how I drove I always got 16.5 mpg.

5.9

My Hybrid - YouTube

My Hybrid - YouTube

6.7

Ugly Wheel hop - YouTube

Ugly Wheel hop - YouTube

Both the 6.7 and 5.9 CTD pulled my 24 enclosed like it wasn't there most of the time.

[BS]

Originally Posted by Darren

Why do you feel the one ton will get less mileage? It is the same truck as the 3/4 ton with an extra leaf is all. Something I'm missing?



Other thoughts on some of the things discussed:
As far as dually vs singe. I want nothing to do with a dually. No need at this time and don't want the parking hassles. And it won't fit in my home garage or work parking garage 1 tons sell pretty well here in WA state. They are all over the road in single rear wheel config here.

Chevy... probably not going to happen. I don't like the interior or exterior. I have to like the look of the truck to be completely happy with it. I suppose it isn't 100% out of the question but I really am not a Chevy fan.

Mega cab... yep. Probably going to avoid it. That extra 20" really makes the truck feel long. Will stick with the Crew and 6.5' box.

The one ton trucks are substantially heavier than the 3/4 ton trucks- heavier frames, heavier differentials (Dana 60/80 on most), heavier running gear (axles, drivelines, etc...) and even heavier wheels. More driveline loss with the Dana 60 differentials over the stock units- Dana 44 and GM 80.

Most of the short box trucks can't be ordered with the larger fuel tanks due to lack of room to mount one with the short bed. My crew cab short box has a 26 gallon tank in it also as did my last truck with the extended cab short box. Hasn't been a problem yet as I just have to stop a bit more often to fill up. The diesels get better milage towing than the gas trucks so you will probably be able to get 250-350 miles on a tank while towing if it isn't all mountain travel.

Bob

[trevor]

my 3500 dually mega cab is around 8400lbs. My quad cab long bed 2500 was 7300lbs. The 1 ton duallys are a lot heavier, more drag, more tires, so they will get less fuel mileage.

the dodge short bed has a 32 gallon fuel tank and the long bed is 34.

I think the dually 3500 rides nicer than my 08 2500. It might be the tires, who knows. I am really happy with the mega cab 3500 dually.

[biga_93]

I had a 2006 Dodge Quad Cab TD 2500. Good truck. Just bought a 2011 F350 TD instead of the Dodge. Rides better and pulls considerably better. Any of the new trucks will be a fine puller. Find a good deal and the brand of your choice and you will be happy! As a side note, I have just as many women comment of how nice my truck looks as I do men. I never had any comment about my Dodge

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[Mike_R]

I have owned and driven both dodge and ford to over 200k miles. My experience with dodge is you are left with a good engine and a pile of crap around it. The rest of truck fell apart until it just was not worth the hassle.

I would give my ford trucks a better rating overall but slightly less on the motor. I have pulled cattle in both trucks to Kansas from north Texas and both did it just fine. I am currently using my 03 Ford 7.3L as my daily driver. Almost 175K and the only problem was a crack in the intake plumbing. Cost around $200 to fix so not a big deal. I am planning on getting this one to over 300k since the outside still looks great and the interior is fine except for the normal wear on the driver seat.

Edit: My experience is based on the Ford 7.3 and 6.0 motors, not the 6.7.

[Darren]

BS, You must be thinking of Ford or Chevy, I'm not looking at 1 ton dually's, am looking at single rear wheels. The Dodge 3/4 ton and 1 ton are the same truck with different springs is all from what I've researched. Exact same wheels, same body, same frame rail thickness, it has just a bit more payload. Dealer confirmed my thoughts as well. If you have some documentation I'd love to read it and be proven wrong. The price difference is like $200. If the 3/4 ton is truly that much heavier I'll be really surprised. I can't find anything that says they have a different or more beefy frame or anything.

[Bob Cowan]

Originally Posted by Darren

BS, You must be thinking of Ford or Chevy, I'm not looking at 1 ton dually's, am looking at single rear wheels. The Dodge 3/4 ton and 1 ton are the same truck with different springs is all from what I've researched. Exact same wheels, same body, same frame rail thickness, it has just a bit more payload. Dealer confirmed my thoughts as well.

You are correct. The dual wheels give you a bit more pay load. But, most importantly, they give you more stability with big pay loads like 5th wheel trailers.

[BS]

Originally Posted by Darren

BS, You must be thinking of Ford or Chevy, I'm not looking at 1 ton dually's, am looking at single rear wheels. The Dodge 3/4 ton and 1 ton are the same truck with different springs is all from what I've researched. Exact same wheels, same body, same frame rail thickness, it has just a bit more payload. Dealer confirmed my thoughts as well. If you have some documentation I'd love to read it and be proven wrong. The price difference is like $200. If the 3/4 ton is truly that much heavier I'll be really surprised. I can't find anything that says they have a different or more beefy frame or anything.

Well, just goes to show ya', you don't look at new trucks for awhile and everything changes.
When I used to pay attention to such things, there was always a big step from one truck size to another. The 1/2 ton's used the lightest differentials-usually Dana 44's in all of the makes- Ford, Chevy, Dodge. The 3/4 ton used the beefier Dana 44's and Dana 60's in the heavy duty models. The 1 ton units used the Dana 60/80 rears, depending on which make you were looking at. GM started using their own rear differential, but beefed it up for the different sized trucks- heavier differential, axles, axle tubes, etc.... Also, much heavier, deeper frame channels to handle the loads they were expected to handle. Of course, heavier springs are a no-brainer, but if your axles tubes and suspension mounts aren't up to the load, what are you mounting these heavier springs to?

And to top it off, they usually used larger brakes for greater stopping power. I'm pretty sure Ford and Chevy still take this route and on top of that, at least the Allison transmission/Duramax diesel has a modified engine brake and shift programming on their trucks for long downhill grades with a load so you don't overheat your brakes.

I guess Dodge didn't feel like it was necessary to use heavier running gear, frames, etc.. when designing a heavier truck for heavier loads? I'm not really sure what to think of that..... are you really sure you want to buy a Dodge?

Of course, if all you're doing with the truck is hauling a travel trailer as opposed to hauling tons of gravel, or firewood, or a heavy 5th wheel or gooseneck trailer, or construction supplies like concrete, you should be fine as long as you have the proper towing hitch set up and brake controller.

This brings up another point, have you checked to see if the trucks you are looking at come with a properly rated tow platform and prewired for lights/brakes/charging circuits? I'm sure it is an option on the Fords and Chevies, never really checked the Dodges to be honest. If it isn't offered, add in another $400+ to have it installed on your new truck.

Bob

[Darren]

Originally Posted by BS

I guess Dodge didn't feel like it was necessary to use heavier running gear, frames, etc.. when designing a heavier truck for heavier loads? I'm not really sure what to think of that..... are you really sure you want to buy a Dodge?

Bob

He he, or maybe they built the 3/4 ton to the 1 ton specs? I dunno to tell you the truth. Thanks for all the good info.

I'm not sure what to buy. A Ford with engine problems or a Dodge that will supposedly fall apart around the engine

Most all 2012 3/4 and one ton trucks come standard with all the provisions for heavy towing including integrated trailer brake, class IV hitch with all wiring interfaces needed.

Have I mentioned I hate truck shopping?