Big Ammo buys by Federal Agencies

[DMW]

I don't want this to be political but it could be alarming. This is the second or third ammo purchase by a Federal agency that I've seen in the last few days. Is this true? What does it mean (or should I be afraid to ask)?

» Social Security Administration To Purchase 174 Thousand Rounds Of Hollow Point Bullets Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

[stengun]

Howdy DMW,

You do realize that this info comes from a +50yo unmarried guy that lives in his Mom's basement, right?

Paul

[Cobra Cory]

Prepping......Prepping.......Prepping......

[DMW]

OK, I didn't know that! Thanks.

[VPR-KLR]

Uh, that's only 4 small cases per location.
Still, it is funny/odd to hear SSA and ammo in the same sentence.

[joyridin']

I don't doubt it at all. They will need all that ammo to protect their offices when they tell everybody that has paid into SS for the last 20-50 years that they won't be getting any checks when they retire.

I can see mobs attacking and them defending their offices. Something like Custer's Last Stand.

[tweeker]

what is disturbung is not the ammo buy, but that it was probably for a SWAT team.

[Michael Stora]

These buys are not that big when you take into accound the number of armed Ferderal agents and the amounts of ammo needed to train and periodicaly qualify.

Mike

[mcmustang]

Your tax dollars at work! I heard it was a typo and the ammo is for another agency. I thought initially that they were just going to make it harder to collect Social Security.

[Cory]

It's for that private police force equal in size and strength to the US military that he was talking about on the stump in October of 08.

[PSB]

Originally Posted by stengun

Howdy DMW,

You do realize that this info comes from a +50yo unmarried guy that lives in his Mom's basement, right?

Paul

I didn't know the guy who runs the US Government FedBizOpps website did it from his mom's basement . Where did you find that out???

Here's the Request For Quote from the SS Administration:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...=core&_cview=0



Pete

[PSB]

Originally Posted by Michael Stora

These buys are not that big when you take into accound the number of armed Ferderal agents and the amounts of ammo needed to train and periodicaly qualify.

Mike

The RFQ is for 174 thousand rounds of ".357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition

Part# GSB357SB/29408 357 SIG 125 BJHP B"

You don't use hollow points for target practice.

[tirod]

Somebody is expressing concern about Government ammo purchases?

In those forums, it's common knowledge, and the general opinion is that it's simply not enough to maintain a consistent level of expertise. If someone wants to be proficient, they need to shoot weekly, not semi annually. We could expand the ammo budget by a factor of ten, and it wouldn't approach what gets fired in actual combat.

Of course, if it's all a huge concern, how much do you have stored in hermetically sealed containers and readily available? That's a common topic in gun forums, too, and the discussion hinges on how many rounds you need to be able to get thru a collapse of civilization as we know it, vs. the quantity to be accused of stockpiling an arsenal.

Well, good luck with that.

By the way, how much gasoline do you have stored back for those day? Can't drive a car on a empty tank and the gas stations shut down because there's no fuel, no electricity, and no way to leave the house because looters would burn it to the ground, right?

Let's just go off the deep end completely. I'll throw my shop apron over my face and run outside blindly in a fit of hysteria until a run smack into a tree or something.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !

Ok, I feel better now.

[stengun]

Howdy PSB,

Originally Posted by PSB

The RFQ is for 174 thousand rounds of ".357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition

Part# GSB357SB/29408 357 SIG 125 BJHP B"

You don't use hollow points for target practice.

Poor people don't but Military, LEO's and Feds practice with the same ammo they carry.

When I was in the Military and later as a Gov't employee/contractor we would buy 9mm practice ammo for our MP-5's by the 25,000 round pallets.

10 men shooting 500 rounds a day = 5,000 rounds.

5,000 rounds x 5 days = 25,000 rounds.

So, 46,000 rounds would not last long, not even two weeks.

Plus we shoot .380acp, .38 Special, 10mm, .45acp, .223/5.56, .308 and .300 Win Mag. Plus .22LR in a suppressed Ruger MKII pistol.

Look at a standard Army infantry company of 150 men on range day were they fire 200 rounds through their M-16/M-4. 150 x200= 30,000 rounds in a single day.

30,000 rounds x 5 companies = 150,000 rounds.

Paul

[PSB]

Originally Posted by stengun

Howdy PSB,



Poor people don't but Military, LEO's and Feds practice with the same ammo they carry.

When I was in the Military and later as a Gov't employee/contractor we would buy 9mm practice ammo for our MP-5's by the 25,000 round pallets.

10 men shooting 500 rounds a day = 5,000 rounds.

5,000 rounds x 5 days = 25,000 rounds.

So, 46,000 rounds would not last long, not even two weeks.

Plus we shoot .380acp, .38 Special, 10mm, .45acp, .223/5.56, .308 and .300 Win Mag. Plus .22LR in a suppressed Ruger MKII pistol.

Look at a standard Army infantry company of 150 men on range day were they fire 200 rounds through their M-16/M-4. 150 x200= 30,000 rounds in a single day.

30,000 rounds x 5 companies = 150,000 rounds.

Paul

When I was in the Air Force, we stopped even using live ammo for small arms practice, we used a simulator. I shot expert four times on the simulator, only did it once with real bullets. For bombing and gunnery practice, no, we didn't use combat ammo for training.

Hollow point ammo is against the Geneva convention, so NO the military doesn't use it for practice or for real.

[Michael Stora]

Originally Posted by PSB

The RFQ is for 174 thousand rounds of ".357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition

Part# GSB357SB/29408 357 SIG 125 BJHP B"

You don't use hollow points for target practice.

Law enforcement trains with the same ammo they carry (and you should too).

174k rounds works out to be about 200 rounds per Social Security office guard.

Edit: I over estimated the amount of guarded locations. They only use guards at 66 locations (a total of 295 armed agents employed). That still works out to less than 600 rounds an agent.

Mike

[SloW8]

Originally Posted by tirod

By the way, how much gasoline do you have stored back for those day? Can't drive a car on a empty tank and the gas stations shut down because there's no fuel, no electricity, and no way to leave the house because looters would burn it to the ground, right?

This is exactly why I am building a fully armored, steam powered land train with 3 power units and two living/transport cars for each power unit. As a whole it will have a self contained range of 2,500 miles. If we have to separate, to individual power units and cars it gets cut to 1,500 miles. With our grid of 27 bunker units we can re-locate to less hostile geos as needed. Enough water and fuel is stored at each bunker that we can re-supply the train to full range.

[crash]

Originally Posted by SloW8

This is exactly why I am building a fully armored, steam powered land train with 3 power units and two living/transport cars for each power unit. As a whole it will have a self contained range of 2,500 miles. If we have to separate, to individual power units and cars it gets cut to 1,500 miles. With our grid of 27 bunker units we can re-locate to less hostile geos as needed. Enough water and fuel is stored at each bunker that we can re-supply the train to full range.

And I thought I was the only one...

[stengun]

Howdy Pete,

Originally Posted by PSB

I didn't know the guy who runs the US Government FedBizOpps website did it from his mom's basement . Where did you find that out???




Pete

It's kind of a joke. After spending many years on gun forums I've come to the conclusion that many of the members, especially the ones that mainly post in the political section are +40yo SWMs that in fact still live with their Mother. Most never post anything about their wife/GF/SO/etc. or kids but they will post stuff about their buddy, brother/sister, Mom, Dad, etc.

More than once, one of these members have stated that they were not married, never been married, no kids and lived with a parent.

All the creepy weirdos that use to hang out around the schools grounds and parks always lived with their Moms. Nowadays they hang out on the 'Net.

Paul

[QSL]

Its for the upcomming election. Why? Illuminati... I have already said too much.

[tirod]

Originally Posted by PSB

Hollow point ammo is against the Geneva convention, so NO the military doesn't use it for practice or for real.

Wrong. JAG vetted the use of hollow points back in the 1980's, it's very old news.

Now, describe a hollow point bullet. It's one with a empty cavity in the nose, right? Not necessarily. It depends on the purpose of the design, and a hollow point built expressly for the purpose of disrupting more tissue is certainly the focus of the ban.

However, we are not signatories, and it has no legal force. Nonetheless, we abide by it voluntarily, so, our ammo is largely full metal jacket - except certain long range bullets. Those are designed for extreme accuracy at ranges far beyond the average soldier's weapon or his capability. They are used by snipers, and were perfected in competition. Because of that, they aren't considered "hollow points" because they weren't designed to disrupt more flesh.

Therefore, we can and do use "hollow point" bullets. The general American public is, as usual, completely ignorant about what is really going on. 1) The Geneva Convention doesn't address it, it's the Hague Convention, and 2) It's not a dum dum hollow point - it's an open tip bullet. The thin jacket material is there only for aerodynamic precision, and the overall expansion of the bullet isn't materially different than a typical ball round.

There is a lot of misinformation about this in the military (22 years Army Reserve, Vet, MP at GTMO,) and the public is even less informed. It still pops up on gun forums because it's easier to repeat a myth than research the facts.

Did somebody mention using AN hose for fuel lines?

[NAGA]

Dang, I never got to practice fire my weapon when I was in the military. Everything we did was in the sim.

Could be 'cause it was a Titan II.



d

[yankabilly]

Originally Posted by NAGA

Dang, I never got to practice fire my weapon when I was in the military. Everything we did was in the sim.

Could be 'cause it was a Titan II.



d

Sorry to hear that Donald,
If you had been at Vandenberg AFB you could have had a chance with a bunch of "force deployment" target practice:

Titan II
Titan IV
Pegasus
Taurus
Atlas V
Delta IV
and more Minuteman III than you could count.

I love the smell of rocket fuel in the morning

[J Persons]

The last time I was in a SS office, they used rent a cops, not federal guards. This was about four years ago.

[tirod]

When you are in the MP's - even as a Reservist - you familiarize a minimum of twice annually on the M9, M16 (now M4,) M203, Mk19, M249, M2, and it's all live ammo. And, it's barely enough to maintain familiarity with how the weapon works, much less getting rounds on target.

Simulation firing is a lot like sitting in your roadster in the garage in front of a video racing game. I don't do that.

Those of us who are familiar with LEO issues know that the average Police officer doesn't get enough firearms practice to actually be proficient, much less accurate. For example, one example locally - a thug was spotted who was wanted for parole violations, and a foot chase ensued. He pulled a large automatic and fired shots at the pursuing officers in the older downtown section, which brought on a response from more officers. He fired a total of 8 shots, the police fired over 32. Only one hit, and that was with a AR15.

Nationwide, that's about average. 32 to 1. We don't buy enough ammo.

[NAGA]

Originally Posted by yankabilly

Sorry to hear that Donald,
If you had been at Vandenberg AFB you could have had a chance with a bunch of "force deployment" target practice:

Titan II
Titan IV
Pegasus
Taurus
Atlas V
Delta IV
and more Minuteman III than you could count.

I love the smell of rocket fuel in the morning

I spent 3 months in training at Vandyland but never got to turn the keys for real. Only sims. I did get to see a Minuteman salvo shot right at dusk one evening. Our instructors told us to look for the geometric patterns that would appear in the smoke as the missiles rose into the sunlight. Truly awesome, but I never got to see or participate in a Titan launch. Very few Ops crews did.

d

[stengun]

Howdy NAGA,

Originally Posted by NAGA

I spent 3 months in training at Vandyland but never got to turn the keys for real. Only sims. I did get to see a Minuteman salvo shot right at dusk one evening. Our instructors told us to look for the geometric patterns that would appear in the smoke as the missiles rose into the sunlight. Truly awesome, but I never got to see or participate in a Titan launch. Very few Ops crews did.

d

I guess you were not stationed at Litttle Rock AFB when they accidentily launched a Titan II. Luckily the warhead wasn't armed and it landed a few miles away in someone's front yard.

Back in '82 I pulled security at the sites in Arkansas.

Ever heard of the "Ghost Silo" or "Ghost Site"? It was Site 373-4.

Paul

[J Persons]

Titan II at Little Rock AFB

[quicksand]

Originally Posted by Michael Stora

These buys are not that big when you take into accound the number of armed Ferderal agents and the amounts of ammo needed to train and periodicaly qualify.

Mike

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Michael Stora]

Originally Posted by stengun

Howdy NAGA,



I guess you were not stationed at Litttle Rock AFB when they accidentily launched a Titan II. Luckily the warhead wasn't armed and it landed a few miles away in someone's front yard.

Back in '82 I pulled security at the sites in Arkansas.

Ever heard of the "Ghost Silo" or "Ghost Site"? It was Site 373-4.

Paul

Any 18 yo stationed there in 1960 when the accident occurred would be 70 today, so it is probably safe to assume he was not.

Wasn't it 374-7?

Mike