Offduty motorcycle cop hits little girl > dad beats cop > cop kills dad

[VPR-KLR]

:confused1
I don't know of a more difficult situation or worse calamity of misunderstandings. I feel bad for everyone involved.

It wasn't that long ago that people were "cheering" the "hero dad" in Texas who beat off his daughter's alleged child molester, killing him in the process. We tend to like these stories for the obvious reason: It sets a terrible situation right. A child is being hurt. A parent rushes to the rescue. The parent gets revenge on the child's attacker. All is well with the world again.

But what if that scenario goes horribly awry? What if the person who hurt the child genuinely did it by accident? What if the father who rushes to the rescue is overcome with the understandable desire to beat the bejesus out of the person who hurt his child? And what if the person who hurt the child just happened to be a cop who was carrying a gun? There's no "happy" ending to this story. But it might teach everyone a lesson about using fists instead of the law.

Saturday night, an off-duty police officer was riding down the street on his motorcycle when apparently a little girl darted out from nowhere in front of his bike. He intentionally "ditched" the bike in an effort to avoid hitting her, but it was too late. His bike slammed into 4-year-old Taniyah Middleton, as well as her 18-year-old cousin, who had run out to help her.

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The cop, despite being injured himself, reportedly began trying to help the little girl. This is when the girl's father, Christopher Middleton, ran out of a nearby restaurant, saw the scene, and began taking out his fury on the man who had hurt his daughter.

Reportedly the man identified himself as a police officer, but the infuriated man just kept pummeling. Then the 18-year-old cousin joined in. About to lose consciousness from the beating, the cop pulled out his gun and fired, killing the father.

This horrible scenario brings up a whole lot of questions: How did the little girl get out of the restaurant? Why was she running across the street? Why would the cop feel his life was so in danger that he had to fire into the father to get the fight to stop? What about firing into the air? Or, at the most, his leg?

The little girl is recovering from her injuries, as is the police officer. The tragedy is being investigated. But it does make you wonder if this all could have been avoided if the father had called police rather than begun lashing out physically. When it comes to our kids, it's not easy to let our heads, not our hands, be in charge. But it might be for the best.

What do you think the father should have done?

Was the cop speeding or weaving? Cause police NEVER speed or drive reckless when off duty.
Or, maybe he was driving very conservatively, and was doing NOTHING wrong, and the child just darted out.

What happened in that moment when the dad came on the scene? Who blinked first?
Anyone can understand how the father just lost it..... what a sad outcome.

Off-Duty Cop Crashes Motorcycle Into Little Girl Then Kills Her Enraged Dad | CafeMom Articles

[Darren]

Originally Posted by VPR-KLR

:confused1
I don't know of a more difficult situation or worse calamity of misunderstandings. I feel bad for everyone involved.



Was the cop speeding or weaving? Cause police NEVER speed or drive reckless when off duty.
Or, maybe he was driving very conservatively, and was doing NOTHING wrong, and the child just darted out.

What happened in that moment when the dad came on the scene? Who blinked first?
Anyone can understand how the father just lost it..... what a sad outcome.

Off-Duty Cop Crashes Motorcycle Into Little Girl Then Kills Her Enraged Dad | CafeMom Articles

The cop did the right thing. You don't fire into the air when your life is in danger. You also don't fire into a leg, like he could pick his target when he is getting pummeled.

[VPR-KLR]

Of course the cop did the right thing concerning the shooting.
That question was posed by whomever wrote the article, and doesn't understand a real-world shooting scenario.
My only question concerning the cop was if he was driving like, well,
sometimes cops drive off duty. (As if they are going to a call).
After the wreck, he did what he had to do.

[ss95003]

Originally Posted by VPR-KLR

Of course the cop did the right thing concerning the shooting.
That question was posed by whomever wrote the article, and doesn't understand a real-world shooting scenario.
My only question concerning the cop was if he was driving like, well,
sometimes cops drive off duty. (As if they are going to a call).
After the wreck, he did what he had to do.

How the person was driving is not relivant. that is a seprate matter. He clearly feared for his life so he took action. Even if he was driving recklessly that does not mean he should be beat to death, and that he can't take steps to protect himself.

[Cory]

Where in the article does it describe the off duty officer as driving reckless?
"Saturday night, an off-duty police officer was riding down the street on his motorcycle"


This shooting is very similar to one here in Florida where a civilian, not an off duty police officer, was being pummeled and shot the attacker.

[VPR-KLR]

It didn't say either way.
I was just wondering what the scenario actually was. News never gets all the details and rarely gets them right. What I was eluding to was (from the dad's perspective) I would see his(cop's) involvement differently if he was innocently and safely driving down the street as opposed to speeding or weaving.

If I saw my son hit by a motorist driving reasonably, I don't think I would even acknowledge the driver. My focus would be on saving my son. If I saw my son run down by a motorist that was driving recklessly, and especially if I believed my son was dead, I don't know if I could keep from going after the motorist. The report doesn't say either way, and since it mentions the girl darting into traffic and not the cop's driving, most likely he was driving reasonably.

Either way, very sad for everyone involved, including the officer.

[QSL]

My kids never "ran" into a street. Parent not there watching? Then is pissed off at the cop???? Sounds like he got what was comming to him.

[Mike_R]

Originally Posted by Darren

The cop did the right thing. You don't fire into the air when your life is in danger. You also don't fire into a leg, like he could pick his target when he is getting pummeled.

X2.

Regarding his driving, from the pictures it appears this was in a parking lot and not a street. Considering he saw the child and dumped the bike shows he was paying attention and it still was not enough.

And I highly doubt the dad enough saw what happened since he was still inside the building. And do not forget the 18 year old joined in on the beating of the off duty officer. It seems he had no choice and feared for his life and was left no other options.

As a first read the article my first thought was why was the dad so concerned on beating the man instead of tending to his injured child. Was he drunk or just not care?

[VPR-KLR]

Mike I pretty much agree.
But what pictures are you referring to?

[Steven K]

Originally Posted by Mike_R

As a first read the article my first thought was why was the dad so concerned on beating the man instead of tending to his injured child. Was he drunk or just not care?

that's what I was thinking. It sounds like there is more to this tragic story than meets the eye.

[Mike_R]

Originally Posted by VPR-KLR

Mike I pretty much agree.
But what pictures are you referring to?

The picture in the article, the area taped off is a parking lot. Then I was thinking well maybe that is where the fight ended but between the ambulance and the Hummer you can see what appears to be a bike sitting in the lot.

[NAGA]

A father rushing in to rescue his child is one thing.

A father rushing in to pummel the other person involved in the accident while ignoring his injured child is another. The guy was an idiot.

Sorry he had to die for his stupidity but he took the law into his own hands and ended up dead from a man who was rightly trying to save his own life.

The fact this was a cop and whether he was driving correctly or not, do not figure into the main argument. That would have been for a court to decide later.

d.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by VPR-KLR

(As if they are going to a call).

nevermind...

[CapeCoralCobra]

Can't/won't add anything to the "did this or did that happen?" discussion, but if the incident occurred as written in the article, the headline "Off-Duty Cop Crashes Motorcycle Into Little Girl Then Kills Her Enraged Dad" is inflammatory, irresponsible and inexcusable.

And, obviously, the writer is ignorant of L.E. firearms policy. Most L.E. agencies forbid "warning shots" into the air and shooting specifically at a leg or any other extremity is near impossible in a situation like this. Center of mass to stop the threat is the training standard. Not looking for an argument, just stating fact.

[Steven K]

Originally Posted by CapeCoralCobra

Can't/won't add anything to the "did this or did that happen?" discussion, but if the incident occurred as written in the article, the headline "Off-Duty Cop Crashes Motorcycle Into Little Girl Then Kills Her Enraged Dad" is inflammatory, irresponsible and inexcusable.

Are you saying the media exaggerates for their own purposes? Shocking!!!!

[Highspeed]

I can't read the article right now due to a content block, but the first thing that came to mind was someone making up this story....the reason being is that it sounds exactly like a similar accident that happened near here a while back, but it was a guy in a truck, a child darting out between cars chasing a ball, and the guy going back to help the child. The idiot dad ran out and stabbed the guy who was in no way to blame. Same story, different location. Sounds like the same loser parents not watching their kids too. Just weird.

p.s. it sounds like the cop was simply defending himself.

[cChrisM]

I would agree the Dad did not handle the situation correctly. But when your kids are involved one does not always think clearly.

I keep wondering about the part where he dumps the bike to avoid hitting the girl head on. I used to ride a lot and always looked for a way out or clamping down on the brakes. Granted I had a sport bike and not sure about how one would react on other bikes. But to dump a bike you loose control of the bike and its only going to roll or slide out of control. It just doesn't make sense to me to handle the situation like that.

Time will tell as this develops and I do not know the facts and should not be speculating on something I know nothing about in this particular situation.

[Someday I Suppose]

I pretty much agree with NAGA on this, as a parent your #1 concern should be for your child, not getting into an altercation with the guy on the bike.

As a side note, did I read that this was something like 10:00 at night? Why is a 4yr old running around at that time of night? Reminds me of the old "its 6:00PM do you know where your children are????" things.

[dukegrad98]

Originally Posted by cChrisM

I keep wondering about the part where he dumps the bike to avoid hitting the girl head on.

I agree. Most of this thread is pointless and ridiculous speculation, and I choose not to participate or turn this into another Trayvon Martin style debate. I freely admit that I know little-to-nothing about motorcycles, but I'm not sure how ditching the bike in this scenario is responsible at all. If I fear I'm about to be in an accident in my car, I sure as heck don't close my eyes and let go of the steering wheel. Seems to me that laying it down is giving up any hope of control or avoidance, or even minimization of damage -- roughly the same as ejecting from an aircraft to save yourself.

Bikers: is laying the bike down any kind of normal operating procedure?

Cheers, John

[tim-in-oakton]

It doesn't seem to be a reasonable response to me, but a friend in college that was a fairly experienced rider (well, experienced for 21 or 22 yrs old) came across someone attempting "suicide by motorcycle" - she deliberately ran in front of him on a highway and he ended up dropping the bike BEFORE hitting her and just shattering her legs.

Not sure if it was deliberate in either case, but I know how it happened in at least one case. Lock the brakes and lean and you will likely be sliding on the pavement.

[skunkman]

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

I agree. Most of this thread is pointless and ridiculous speculation, and I choose not to participate or turn this into another Trayvon Martin style debate. I freely admit that I know little-to-nothing about motorcycles, but I'm not sure how ditching the bike in this scenario is responsible at all. If I fear I'm about to be in an accident in my car, I sure as heck don't close my eyes and let go of the steering wheel. Seems to me that laying it down is giving up any hope of control or avoidance, or even minimization of damage -- roughly the same as ejecting from an aircraft to save yourself.

Bikers: is laying the bike down any kind of normal operating procedure?

Cheers, John

I'm pretty sure the only reason to lay down a bike is to help avoid or minimize injury when you have already lost control of the bike and you are going down no matter what. Kind of like turning and landing on your side instead of your face when you know you are falling down after tripping on something.
"When faced with a potentially dangerous situation, it's generally best to remain upright on your bike. Remember, tire rubber has an immense amount of traction. However, plastic, steel, and chrome (the materials found on the side of the bike) offer almost no traction. When you stay on your motorcycle instead of letting it slide, you'll be better able to stop in time or swerve out of the way. The only possible time where it might be a better idea to purposely end up on the ground is when it's better than the alternative, like going over a guardrail down a cliff or into the middle of a ten-car pile-up. Once you lay down a bike, you have absolutely no control over where you will end up."

[ZoaFan08]

Would I be pissed if someone ran into my little girl? Yes!
Would I want to beat the piss out of them? Yes

But none of that would have happened because I would have been at my little girls side going over her wounds and getting her help. This guy just attacked the cop and the cousin joined in, he deserved to get shot.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

Bikers: is laying the bike down any kind of normal operating procedure?

Cheers, John

It's sort of like comparing a person that would lock up the brakes on a non-ABS car. In a panic, it's completely understandable, even though locking up the brakes is probably the worse thing you can do.

Same thing with a motorcycle. Locking up the brakes and laying down the bike isn't exactly what you want to do, but in a panic it's what happens with the average rider if you're not confident in your riding ability, haven't practiced collision avoidance manuvers or just flat out panic. If you lock up the wheels you're most likely going down.

[jayguy]

I wondered about the act of laying down the bike when I first read this also.

I'm pretty sure this officer isn't a Motor Patrol (bike) officer, or he would have stayed on the bike and used his brakes and steering to avoid or minimize the accident.

As already posted, laying the bike down just makes things worse, as you are totally giving up control of several hundred pounds.

I've taken both the basic and advanced MSF courses, and in both they teach that staying up right is the best response. In the advanced course they even have you practice obstacle avoidance and locking up the tires so you know what to expect during emergency situations.

But that's all easy to say from an armchair days after the event.

So besides all that, I hope the little girl is healing well.

[ZoaFan08]

Originally Posted by jayguy

I wondered about the act of laying down the bike when I first read this also.

I'm pretty sure this officer isn't a Motor Patrol (bike) officer, or he would have stayed on the bike and used his brakes and steering to avoid or minimize the accident.

As already posted, laying the bike down just makes things worse, as you are totally giving up control of several hundred pounds.

I've taken both the basic and advanced MSF courses, and in both they teach that staying up right is the best response. In the advanced course they even have you practice obstacle avoidance and locking up the tires so you know what to expect during emergency situations.

But that's all easy to say from an armchair days after the event.

So besides all that, I hope the little girl is healing well.

Only time laying a bike down is a benefit when you are about to hit someone is if they step out and you know you cannot brake. Getting hit by a motorcycle going 30mph while upright is deadly, getting hit by one slidding on the ground is bone breaking.

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by Joe

It's sort of like comparing a person that would lock up the brakes on a non-ABS car. In a panic, it's completely understandable, even though locking up the brakes is probably the worse thing you can do.

Same thing with a motorcycle. Locking up the brakes and laying down the bike isn't exactly what you want to do, but in a panic it's what happens with the average rider if you're not confident in your riding ability, haven't practiced collision avoidance manuvers or just flat out panic. If you lock up the wheels you're most likely going down.

I tend to agree...... he did not "lay it down" he hit the brakes hard and went down trying to avoid the obvious.

very sad situation for both families....

[Michael Stora]

This is hypothetical I have often pondered. If someone is fiercely attacking you or has otherwise indicated a desire to severely harm or kill you, I would consider any situation where you are about to loose consciousness and potentially possession of your weapon to your attacker, to be one where lethal force was warranted.

Here is the hypothetical I often ponder. Let's say someone attacks you and shoots you without warning. You manage to wrestle the gun away from them and hold them at gunpoint until you feel yourself going into shock from blood loss. What do you do at that point?

Mike

[QSL]

Originally Posted by Michael Stora

This is hypothetical I have often pondered. If someone is fiercely attacking you or has otherwise indicated a desire to severely harm or kill you, I would consider any situation where you are about to loose consciousness and potentially possession of your weapon to your attacker, I would consider lethal force warranted.

Here is the hypothetical I often ponder. Let's say someone attacks you and shoots you without warning. You manage to wrestle the gun away from them and hold them at gunpoint until you feel yourself going into shock from blood loss. What do you do at that point?

Mike

Make sure your the only witness...

[VPR-KLR]

Shoot, or you will most certainly die as soon as you lose consciousness.
The other person has already shown their intent and willingness to use lethal force. If he dies, there's only 1 witness besides ballistics.

[Brian F]

If it was sudden and the bike rider pushed hard to one side to attempt to avoid the girl, he could go down his side while still hoping to avoid the girl.

Other way to look at it. Either slide into her or run over her... if you can't stop. Decisions in .75 seconds sure are difficult...