Dodge pulls out from NASCAR

[Cory]

So does this open the door for Honda or a German car maker like VW?
Dodge pulling out of NASCAR at season's end - Aug 07, 2012 - NASCAR.COM

[QSL]

VW?!?! Oh please dont say so. OMG, i almost had a heart attack when they let toyota in.

[Big-Foot]

Wow... Well, the current car is more or less a spec car anyway... Ultimately, they will end up with just a spec engine and driveline for all the cars and a standard body.. It's where they are headed..

The only thing that sticks in my craw is that there are so many brand loyal fans that get involved for the name of the brand. Ultimately that will go away..

[QSL]

Originally Posted by Big-Foot

Ultimately that will go away..

along with the sport.

This was once a GREAT american past time. When the cars were actual models you could buy on the showroom floor. They could not even race them unless they were available to the public. Now they are generic looking brick shaped rice rockets.

Honestly, i cant blame dodge for pulling out. They see the writing on the wall.

[jimgood]

I can't blame them either. Racing is a money pit. I would imagine racing at that level is an abyss if you're not competitive.

[Steven K]

Originally Posted by jimgood

I can't blame them either. Racing is a money pit. I would imagine racing at that level is an abyss if you're not competitive.

I think it's a fun thing to do when times are good and there is plenty of money flowing in, and you may get a few sales out of it. In these days, I think it is difficult to justify the resources when you cannot really link the expense to sales. Then you add poor performance to it and there are probably better ways to spend the money.

[Genghis]

Didn't you know? VW already has an owner lined up. His name is Herbie.

Here's the Passat design study:

Trackmania Carpark • View topic - [WIP - Dinggs] - Ford Nascar "VW Passat"

[crash]

So we should expect LiLo to be in a drivers suit FOR REAL then?

[Genghis]

Mmmm, not so much. She's probably busy being A.J.'s twelve-step mentor.

But for someone capable of the proper attitude, how about Stitch?

[D2W]

I think the whole Dodge brand is going away. The trucks are known solely as Ram trucks, the Viper no longer carries the Dodge name. I read recently that they are developing a new Barracuda that will replace the Challenger, it will be a Chrysler. There is also word that the Caravan and the Avenger are going away after 2012. The writing appears to be on the wall.

[QSL]

They are moving all the SRT models to their own brand too which i think is a great move. They are spending a lot on the SRT programs and i really think thats where the money is since people can relate to those cars. Nascar really brings nothing to the plate for them.

[slaga]

Originally Posted by QSL

They are moving all the SRT models to their own brand too which i think is a great move. They are spending a lot on the SRT programs and i really think thats where the money is since people can relate to those cars. Nascar really brings nothing to the plate for them.

2001 - 4th out 4
2002 - 3rd out of 4
2003 - 2nd out of 4
2004 - 3rd out of 3 (Every other Manuf. had at least twice as many wins as Dodge)
2005 - 3rd out of 3 (Every other Manuf. had at least 5 times as many wins as Dodge)
2006 - 2nd out of 3
2007 - 3rd out of 4
2008 - 4th out of 4 (Every other Manuf. had at least twice as many wins as Dodge)
2009 - 4th out of 4
2010 - 4th out of 4 (Every other Manuf. had at least twice as many wins as Dodge)
2011 - 4th out of 4
2012 - Currently 4th out 4

This is why NASCAR brings nothing to the plate for Dodge. 8 of the 12 years that Dodge has sponsored a NASCAR team they have finished dead last in manufacturer's points. 3 years finishing second to last and 1 year middle of the pack. Dodge is NASCAR's whipping boy... That is a lot of money spent just to be uncompetitive.
http://www.nascar.com/races/cup/2012...ufacturer.html

[QSL]

Yea, but who cares? I mean, that has nothing to do with any manufacturer. Nascar does not do ANYTHING for the sales of ANY cars. Now and days, its just a huge waste of money.

[slaga]

Originally Posted by QSL

Yea, but who cares? I mean, that has nothing to do with any manufacturer. Nascar does not do ANYTHING for the sales of ANY cars. Now and days, its just a huge waste of money.

Is this specific to NASCAR or is this across the board at just about any racing series? F1, Rally, Baja, Motocross, Drag Racing, etc. Any of the vehicles that are competitive at the top of those series cannot be purchased at your local X-brand dealership either, yet they all still seem to support brand loyalty in some way. I am wondering why exactly NASCAR brings NOTHING to the table for any given manufacturer, as compared to any other racing series?

[QSL]

I would say especially with nascar. Motocross and maybe rally... i would say it does help them quite a bit. But other then that, when was the last time you heard someone say they were buying a honda next week because one just won indy 500 or someone saying they were going to buy a ford because it won daytona?

Those days are long gone. The cars dont resemble anything anymore in most racing events.

[Just Rick]

The new Chrysler Group

Chrysler Group LLC is now 55% owned by a pension fund, 20% by Fiat, 25% by the U.S. Treasury and Canadian government. The pension fund, which has no voting rights, plans to sell their equity as soon as it is economically feasible.

Fiat will get, at long last, a full-sized Alfa Romeo design and one third of Chrysler Group, as well as serious access to one of the world’s largest auto markets. Chrysler also benefits, getting the small cars which, thanks to nine years under Daimler, they could no longer create on their own, and access to worldwide markets. Together, the two companies will be in a much stronger position because their technologies, markets, and products are almost completely different, but both are mass-production manufacturers.

[crash]

Originally Posted by QSL

Yea, but who cares? I mean, that has nothing to do with any manufacturer. Nascar does not do ANYTHING for the sales of ANY cars. Now and days, its just a huge waste of money.

How many cars does a billboard ad sell?

Advertising is inherently intangible. But the cummulative effects of advertising or not can be readily seen. NASCAR has always been about "proof in the pudding" advertising. What I mean is, it's not just a flat, two dimensional billboard. A race car is much more than that. It keeps the manufacturers name out there and it gives a certain appeal to many individuals when they go into a dealership.

This may not be you, but there are others that NASCAR participation really resonates with. Since they went COT I think alot of that has dropped off, but it is still very important for ANY auto manufacturer to be involved with a sport where a head to head competition with their monday through friday competitors is played out every couple weeks. Yeah, Dodge has been an "also ran" but someone's got to be the whipping boy!

[QSL]

A billboard ad would help a lot more then nascar. A billboard ad generally advertises a new model or feature generating interest in the consumer. Same with television commercials. Racing just puts a brand name in front of you that you already know and either like or dislike already.

[crash]

Originally Posted by QSL

A billboard ad would help a lot more then nascar. A billboard ad generally advertises a new model or feature generating interest in the consumer. Same with television commercials. Racing just puts a brand name in front of you that you already know and either like or dislike already.

Well, I'm in the business, and have been for over 25 years, so maybe I see things a tad differently.

I take it from the above comment that you have never actually attended a NASCAR Cup race?

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by QSL

along with the sport.

This was once a GREAT american past time. When the cars were actual models you could buy on the showroom floor. They could not even race them unless they were available to the public. Now they are generic looking brick shaped rice rockets.

Honestly, i cant blame dodge for pulling out. They see the writing on the wall.

x2

I don't care if the cars can go 200mph+, They all the cars look like oversized RC cars.
NASCAR needs to go back to the bring what you bought off the showroom floor type racing.

[QSL]

Been to multiple Nascar/Indy/Misc races. Indy is our favorite since they serve the best food and its close to the action. However we have not interest in a honda, chevy or lotus...

Why do you ask?

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by crash

How many cars does a billboard ad sell?

Advertising is inherently intangible. But the cummulative effects of advertising or not can be readily seen. NASCAR has always been about "proof in the pudding" advertising. What I mean is, it's not just a flat, two dimensional billboard. A race car is much more than that. It keeps the manufacturers name out there and it gives a certain appeal to many individuals when they go into a dealership...

I thought that what manufacture auto shows were for. To get the produce out to the public, not NASCAR.

[Finallygotit]

Originally Posted by Rich A

....NASCAR needs to go back to the bring what you bought off the showroom floor type racing.

And don't forget the cheating. Gotta have the cheating.

[slaga]

Originally Posted by Rich A

NASCAR needs to go back to the bring what you bought off the showroom floor type racing.

I don't understand this argument at all. You cannot buy any car, motorcycle, boat, etc. straight from the dealer and take it to the the top level of any racing type, and be competitive. You name it, drag racing (boat or car), Baja, circle track, road racing, stadium truck, motocross, F1, etc. Safety issues alone make your "Nascar needs to" argument a complete and utter fail, with all due respect. NASCAR gets a bad rep for this and all other types of racing get a pass...

[QSL]

Because it originated from stock car racing in which the model had to be offered to the public. It generated some of the most valuable muscle car classics today and it made racing something that a lot of people could relate to. As said before, they now dont look like anything and are generic as heck.

[Rich A]

slaga,
It must be been before your time!
You must not know where the saying "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" comes from, Sad.

The Dodge Charger (Daytona), Plymouth Roadrunner (Superbird), Chevrolt Impala, Chevrolt Chevelle, AMC Matador, etc were all production cars that were modified and ran in NASCAR in the 60s and 70s.

Look up 60's & 70's NASCAR cars. Those were production vehicles.

Nothing like the RC cars that run around the track nowadays.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Great idea...I don't need top level, let's see a new series with off the show room floor races. No modification, except for cheating LOL. May the best driver win.

[slaga]

Why don't we go back to racing convertibles on the beaches of Daytona without seat belts. Oh, the good ole days... Does this go back far enough for you? You cannot make a stock production car anywhere near as safe as the "RC cars" on the track now. I personnally feel driver safety is way more important the nastalgia you want.

BTW they do still race NASCAR sanctioned stock cars at my local track, Bowman Gray:

STADIUM STOCK

The Stadium Stock Division is open to foreign and domestic cars and mini-trucks with stock bodies and four-cylinder engines. Only minor engine and chassis modifications are allowed. The minimum allowed weight is 1,800 pounds (without driver) with at least one pound for each cc (cubic centimeter of piston displacement). Safety modifications include roll cage, fuel cell, roof flap, driver compartment fire extinguisher, and NASCAR approved seat belts and driver seat.

It is not the most exciting by any means. My guess is that safety issues are why they do not have a stock V8 class...

[tirod]

The big disconnect for the older generation with NASCAR is that nothing about the car whatsoever can be bought off the showroom floor. They are kit cars with racing motors generally too pricey and unavailable to even buy in the aftermarket.

Of course nobody can buy a two door sedan and take it to the superspeedways and even expect decent pace car performance. But, in the day, you could at least order a body in white, a crate motor, and go to work. What you saw running around on the track at least came off factory production tooling. That connection let you say, "It's just the same," just like the justification that a roadster kit replica is just the same.

NASCAR today doesn't even yet run fuel injection, something the public has had no choice about since 1987. Nothing about the car remotely resembles a factory car. It's a personality driver series with Brand sponsorship, something to wear embroidered on a shirt, not something a guy connects to his family car as being "genetic." He knows his FWD family car is just an transportation appliance compared to a 8500rpm track car. It might as well say "AMANA" on the fender emblem, "DODGE" means so little.

What's the hot kit car topic, or for that matter, hot rodding in general? About the biggest controversy is older V8 vs. newer, the generation gap between "it use to have a carb" and the newer "never had a carb" motors. BOTH are pulled out of donors or bought as crates. You can't get a NASCAR racing motor and stick it under the hood of your project. Nobody even discusses it. The general public opinion is that it's an elitist 1% motor unavailable to the public.

So, why blow the money in advertising funds propping up a series that makes no connection to the buyer? Better off campaigning SRT's on the drag strip. All NASCAR offers is a social situation where what sunscreen you wear is more important. Dodge dropping out is no surprise at all, even with the enormous background and history they have. NASCAR is no longer worth the bother - and France, Inc. needs to wake up to their loss as a marketing vehicle for new car sales. It's not there, it's just a beer ad vehicle.

[slaga]

Originally Posted by tirod

NASCAR today doesn't even yet run fuel injection, something the public has had no choice about since 1987...

They do run fuel injection now.
NASCAR takes 'really big step' with fuel injection - Jan 11, 2012 - NASCAR.COM

Getting back on topic. Dodge is pulling out because they suck at it. They were not competitive. The years I picked in post 13 were their entire last run in NASCAR. They got back into NASCAR in 2001 and are quitting at the end of 2012 because they cannot win with any consistency whatsoever, as evidenced by the fact they finished dead last 8 out of the 12 years they were in NASCAR. There is no reason to pay to advertise that your company is not good at something. Something it desperately wanted to be good at. (IMO)