Talk to me about solar energy.

[Rob]

Since we all built our cars from a "KIT". Talk to me about solar panel roof "KITS".

Wanted to do some research on installing a solar panel roof kit. Companies? Costs? Etc.

Rgds

Rob

[Hoosier]

Backwoodssolar.com

I did some research a few years ago and that site had a lot useful info as well as retail kits...

At that time, even with offered rebates and tax incentives, it wasn't worth it. Payback was as much as 30 years and that's with no maintenance costs...

[Cobra Cory]

Stop by Solyndra. I hear they are having a yard sale....

[Darren]

Yep, solar technology has a long way to go before it is economical for home use from what I've found. Far too expensive with recoup costs in the decades rather than 5-10 years which I figure is the sweet spot.

[Michael Stora]

With panel prices so low, the cost-vs-benefit is there for off-grid solar in the SW united states for the consumer if you include Federal (and often state) tax credits*. I'm not commenting on the public policy, just from the perspective of the home owner.

Keep in mind that you cannot claim the Federal Tax credits unless they are professionally installed by a licensed installer, so no do-it-yourself

*- And you are in a high insolation area and your power company will buy excess power from you.



I am going to get 5kwH per day from a 1kW array in Arizona, you will get about 2kWH from the same setup in CT.
Mike

PS. Backwoods solar is a great site for info but their prices are not competitive for major components. They also focus almost entirely on off-grid solar.

[Chief]

I did some research a few years ago when I was looking at lowering my electric bill. From all the hoopla, I thought it was a good idea.

But when I started running the numbers, I found that if I just lowered by consumption, I would save money and staying on the grid was cheapier. I finally had a installer tell me that if I could get down into the tier 3 or lower level on my electric bill, it was cheapier to stay on the grid. The systems they they sale/lease are for people who are in the tier 4/5 level and can't lower their usage. Even then, it still takes years to recoup the investment.

Also most places are a lease of 20 years. They garentuee that they can produce X amount of power per year. Of course that number is less than the rated system so they can't loose. You win some in that you know you'll make more power than they say. The pannels are good for 25 years to produce at least 90% of their rateing. So the companies are not going to loose anything. They also do the maintenance on the system which is about the only big gain for you.

At the end of the lease, they will more than likely leave the system because the techonology will be so far advanced, it's not worth their time to remove it.

Me, I lowered my usage and replaced some power hungry equipment with more effiecent/newer equipment and saved the money that way. It will take me about 2 years to recoup my investement in new equipment.

[Joe]

It will take me about 2 years to recoup my investement in new equipment.

Chief, What equipment did you find that pays for itself in two years?

[gus91326]

I researched my system as a grid-tied system to produce most if not all the energy I need. With the credits from the federal and local power company my payback will be about 8 years. In the last year and a half I have paid zero for electricity. Could not be happier.

[lynnhowlyn]

Originally Posted by Cobra Cory

Stop by Solyndra. I hear they are having a yard sale....

LMAO!

Thanks for the smile ....

Lynn

[Michael Stora]

Actually Solyndra made tubes not panels. They were were not very efficient but gave a much broader power vs time of day curve and were not sensitive to roof inclination if mounted roughly N-S. Ultimately could not keep up with the cost and efficiency of polycrystalline silicon cells even if they did have some advantages on flat commercial roofs.



Mike

[ClemsonS197]

Being in Connecticut I doubt you'll find any system that has a payback in under 20 years....likely not even 30 years which is beyond the life of the panel. The SW desert is ideal for solar, and often times numbers don't even work out there.

[cobranut1]

I have a solar panels that pay for about 23% of my otherwise reasonable bill of $150 per month over 12 months and after I pay my lease payment of $44 per month for the equipement that I have now committed to use for the next 18 years, I BREAK EVEN, dollar wise. So yes, pretty negligable. But because I drive a car that gets maybe 10 miles a gallon, I don't complain!

The real issue is the fact that you cannot store what you generate yet and we're still a few years away from being able to do that.

[Nate]

A lot of the economics have to do with local incentives. Array costs have come down more than 50% in the last few years, primarily due to the Chinese. So when you get advice, if it is from a different state or based on experience more than a year ago, its probably off. Another thing to consider is that the payback also depends on electricity rates in the future. It's a guessing game. Will plentiful natural gas and coal keep rates low and payback periods longer or will rates go up and payback periods be short. If you take advantage of the local rebates in wa state, the payback period is on the order of 7 years now. Your experience will be different in conn. Those in the south do have it better.

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by cobranut1

I have a solar panels that pay for about 23% of my otherwise reasonable bill of $150 per month over 12 months and after I pay my lease payment of $44 per month for the equipement that I have now committed to use for the next 18 years, I BREAK EVEN, dollar wise. So yes, pretty negligable. But because I drive a car that gets maybe 10 miles a gallon, I don't complain!

The real issue is the fact that you cannot store what you generate yet and we're still a few years away from being able to do that.

Does the power company not credit you with the excess...here in NC, i understand that your power meter will run backwards when you generate more than I use, thus crediting you. The excess goes back into the grid.

[ClemsonS197]

Originally Posted by Zulu

Does the power company not credit you with the excess...here in NC, i understand that your power meter will run backwards when you generate more than I use, thus crediting you. The excess goes back into the grid.

In GA, my local power company buys solar power back at a premium. So I could potentially consume more energy than I generate in a month, but still have a $0.00 bill.

[dukegrad98]

We just slapped a big tariff on Chinese-made panels, right? So much for cheap per-watt prices on the sheets of silicon. Gotta prop up our thriving domestic solar industry.

Cheers, John

[ClemsonS197]

Originally Posted by dukegrad98

We just slapped a big tariff on Chinese-made panels, right? So much for cheap per-watt prices on the sheets of silicon. Gotta prop up our thriving domestic solar industry.

Cheers, John

They've already figured out a whole bunch of go-arounds. Final assembly in the US or using Taiwan built panels are two.

[Chief]

Originally Posted by Joe

Chief, What equipment did you find that pays for itself in two years?

Joe,
The equipment I'm talking about has nothing to do with solar power.
I have a large fish tank (400 Gallons) that eats a lot of power. So I replaced my main lighting with solar tubes and use the sun to light my tank. I also replaced my big power hungry external pumps with small energy efficent internal pumps. I was able to drop my electric bill by about $200. a month with just these changes. I also got rid of my smaller tank and summer swimming pool.

At one time, I was running $500 a month. I'm now down to about $180 a month.

[Chief]

Originally Posted by cobranut1

The real issue is the fact that you cannot store what you generate yet and we're still a few years away from being able to do that.

Yes you can store the excess power, IF you don't mind having a shed full of batteries.

I have a buddy who lives out in the boonies and he does just that. He's completely off the grid. During the day, excess power is used to charge the batteries. At night when he's not making power, he runs off the batteries. But you have to have a stack of batteries and inverters.

Also the pannels make DC power which you need the converters for anyways to convert it to AC for usage in the house.

[Hoosier]

Originally Posted by cobranut1

The real issue is the fact that you cannot store what you generate yet and we're still a few years away from being able to do that.

The grid is your battery, no?

[ROB J]

I think you'll yield a higher return on your investment dollars if you just find yourself a mistress. Just saying.

[dpmac]

With all the electric hybrids out there and more coming. there will be quite a market for all those "old" batteries in the solar storage arena.

[Hoosier]

Originally Posted by gus91326

I researched my system as a grid-tied system to produce most if not all the energy I need. With the credits from the federal and local power company my payback will be about 8 years. In the last year and a half I have paid zero for electricity. Could not be happier.

Care to provide us with some details on your system?

If I could get a less than 15 year payback, I'd bite. I doubt it's possible here. Less sun and fairly cheap electric...

What is your system?
What did it cost retail installed?
How much received in total rebates?
What is your average KW usage?
What is your KW cost from your grid provider?

[cobranut1]

Originally Posted by Zulu

Does the power company not credit you with the excess...here in NC, i understand that your power meter will run backwards when you generate more than I use, thus crediting you. The excess goes back into the grid.

Yes, same here in Calif. but my arrays do not produce enough to power my entire house 100%, 24/7. Truthfully, I'm not 100% sure how it all works. All I know is that it's a wash money wise. I have never heard that my meter will run backwards though so I'm gonna ask SUNRUN about that.

[cobranut1]

Originally Posted by Hoosier

The grid is your battery, no?

No, ultimately, we need to be able to store the excess power in batteries on our property and NOT rely on the power companies to deliver it to us.

[Hoosier]

Originally Posted by cobranut1

No, ultimately, we need to be able to store the excess power in batteries on our property

Who does? You personally or society in general?

[crash]

I have bought previously from mrsolar.com and felt the prices were pretty reasonable. Anybody have a better/cheaper source?

[Black Wishbone]

It will cost you 5 years of electricity just to cut down all the trees.