Extramarital affair?

[fact5racer]

If you have had two daughters with her, yet have yet to marry her, I have no problem with her looking elsewere. What ever happened to marriage before kids and why is it so right these days to look at your kids, and then come up with some excuse as to why after TWO kids you still don't have enough love and respect for their mother to marry her? And guys on this forum says YOU should take off with HER daugthers? Guys on this forum are slamming the woman calling her all kinds of derogatory names, and yes I guess your right, she is a **&&^% if she had two kids out of wedlock.......but what does that make you?

P.S. If you meet a woman that will choose their relationship with you over the bond that they have with their child, I wouldn't even share a pet with a woman like that!

[np630ss]

Speaking from experience - there's no future except pain and regret with this woman. You will always wonder who or what she is doing when you're not around. She made her decision to end the relationship when she sent the first nude pic. Now she wants to wait until HER son graduates? UH - Can you say meal ticket? If you own the house - serve her with an eviction notice. If not - consult a lawyer. As for the girls - full or at least joint custody.

In any case - Drop her - NOW! She's bad news that will only get worse. She is definitely NOT the person you've known for over 30 years.

[BOB SCHAEFER]

I couldn't do it. Once trust is broken I could never get it back. I don't want to bash you or your gal, it's just life. I'd have to move on. Sure, it's going to affect your daughters lives but I never bought into the logic of staying in a miserable relationship because of the kids. It's your life too. Find another gal and keep the relationships with your little girls.

I was in a miserable marriage and made a clean break after 14 years. I have a son with her who is now 28. I did find another gal, re-married, and am happier than ever.

It was worth it

Bob

[JKleiner]

Ask yourself what her response would be if the tables were turned (assuming she isn't simply using you as a meal ticket). To be blunt it sounds like you had a wake up call 6 years ago and didn't answer it.
BTW, this thread is mistitled; can't have an extramarital affair without a marriage.

Good luck,
Jeff

[TNcoupe]

I believe Robert DeNiro said in Heat," Dont let yourself get attatched to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds."

[skunkman]

1. How old are your daughters?
2. No harm in going to a marriage and family councelor. My ex wife cheated and we went to counceling for 9 months. It didn't save the marriage but I gained a great deal of personal growth.
3. ZERO communication with her ex - ZERO or it's over
4. Was she remorseful?
5. If the relationship fails you WILL find happiness. I'm remarried and couldn't be happier. My 2 girls are doing great. They were 6 and 8 at the time of the divorce.

Good luck - remember you will be just fine despite how you may feel now.

[Someday I Suppose]

Rick, I guess I have two thoughts or counter thoughts, the first is you say you love her and have for 30+ years, you have two kids with her, but have never gotten married. As others have said, why not? Whats the thing keeping you from having gotten married in the past?

That said, I also look at it as you have loved her for 30+ years, have been through some good and some bad with her, but you have a life with her and love with her and that isn't something to toss aside without a hell of a lot of thought. Life is too short to live unhappy, but there is also a lot you have together with this woman to consider.

_Scott

[Venom_Injected]

20k engagement ring.....really?

I think I know why she wants to work thing$ out....

(Cmon guys.... pictures via email across state lines..they've already met before.... you've already mentally checked out if your that far along...)

Cutting ties suck...... so does loosing half your stuff 5 years from now....

[Darren]

The kids don't benefit from a loveless marriage. Based on the details you provided the choice is easy. She has been cheating on you for a while and will continue after you are married... time to cut her loose and start your life.

[skunkman]

BTW - if possible save the naked emails as they made be of value if custody issues arise.

[crash]

I have been told that people who cheat love the thrill of the sneak. They are excited because they know that if they are discovered, it could mean that they lose everything. Basically they are gamblers. Especially the women. Men are more often just horny bastards! Anyway, if she has a taste for it, it won't stop.

Your relationship will not be the same...ever...and shouldn't be.

My opinion? Forget "marriage" in the traditional sense. Do what is best for the kids, and once that is over with, one way or another, THEN see if you want to be around the woman any longer.

Yes, be careful of the common law marriages, but do everything and make all judgements with the kids, ALL OF THEM, in mind first and foremost. IMHO if you don't do this, you will regret it.

[Don Payne]

You CAN be a good father to your children after you separate.

[NiceGuyEddie]

delete

[ROB J]

Why must we have to bring God into this? The rules clearly state NO RELIGIOUS TALK!!! Take it to the Clubhouse please!

[AC Bill]

Very sad situation. Sorry your having troubles.

Sounds to me like she already has one foot out the door.. and may just be staying for support, or perhaps convenience?

There's no excuse for her behavior. Sending nude pic's to the Ex? No doubt your being away from home frequently, and some of the recent situations that you have been through, would allow a gap in the relationship. Still, if it was real solid relationship, that shouldn't be a factor.

I'd consult a lawyer, and make sure your at least prepared for the worst outcome. Maybe put some checks and stops, on mutual credit cards and bank accounts.
Things can go sideways in a hurry..especially if your out of town. Might come home to an empty house, and an empty bank account..

Good luck!

[NiceGuyEddie]

Originally Posted by ROB J

Why must we have to bring God into this? The rules clearly state NO RELIGIOUS TALK!!! Take it to the Clubhouse please!

sorry rob, i clearly offered advice for those that believed in god or not.

anyway, i deleted my entire post out of respect for you being a moderator.

.

[mderka]

Just curious, but where do you draw the line in what is cheating and what isn't?

She sent nude pictures to a guy she previously has known. Yeah that's pretty bad. I don't think I would call it cheating, but its definitely a serious lack of judgement and disrespectful at least. But what if she posted her pictures on some website or was caught "sexting" or having an emotional relationship (ie not physical) with a guy. Are these acts cheating too?

I guess its up to the OP to decide on how it makes him feel, but I think its kind of a grey area.

[Darren]

Originally Posted by ROB J

Why must we have to bring God into this? The rules clearly state NO RELIGIOUS TALK!!! Take it to the Clubhouse please!

I saw nothing wrong with his post, he gave choices for those with faith and those who choose a different route. There is nothing wrong with offering advice based on your beliefs, he wasn't preaching at all.

[south dakobra]

Kind of brutal but, If I was single guy; she's not hitched, so I'd see her as free to flirt with or whatever.

Acutally I remember those "Meat Market" days and remember the women at the clubs stepping out on their longtime boyfriends who would not tie the knot. They all had justifications that if he's not willing to marry, they weren't willing to be faithful.

Your situation would tough for a women or a man who's lonely and not married.

If it where me. I'd run and start over, but I'm selfish and expect to be first in a relationship as in marriage. Of course my wife thinks the same and every now and then reminds me that she is first for me also.

[Big-Foot]

Originally Posted by Darren

I saw nothing wrong with his post, he gave choices for those with faith and those who choose a different route. There is nothing wrong with offering advice based on your beliefs, he wasn't preaching at all.

Agreed.

[RicManSr]

Originally Posted by Joe

If you guys didn't have two daughters together I would say RUN. Due to the kids I say you need to really do some thinking about if you can forgive her. She needs to know that you you no longer trust her and she will have to earn any future trust going forward.

Either way, the plans to get married need to be put on hold! When you are ready to get married talk to your attorney again about a prenuptial agreement..

We have had this talk. The marriage has been cancelled untill further notice, if at all. Because of the time with each other, and the circumstances we are in I've decided to not make decisions filled with emotion. This is a difficult decision to have to make, but ultimately needs to made with my children in mind before anything else. I walked away from a bad marriage without trying to "fix" the problems and strengthen the relationship before. This ended up with both kids on drugs and now one is in prison. I'm trying to not be self centered and do what is best for all involved instead of what's just best for me. Exploring all options is the best for self preservation.

Originally Posted by Cory

She obviously has something going on with this guy. Maybe you need to call or email the guy and tell him to bug off. Stand up and take what's yours my man.

But do not waste time if she is not 100% committed to you.

I did this also. I have three uncles in law enforcement. One letter sent to him notifying him that this is DONE. I now have his email, home address, work history, and phone number. I will defend, and protect what is mine with reckless abandonment.

Originally Posted by TNCobra

I would put never consider marriage, she is not worthy of your trust. However, maintaining a relationship is necessary for he kids.

Good luck, sounds stressful.

Agreed, it's off the table, and she knows it.

Originally Posted by mirose

X2 on the whole quote from Joe, but this paragraph is important. If she is feeling awful right now and will do "anything" to make it right, then use this to your advantage and tell her that if the relationship is what is most important to her, then she will sign a prenup as part of your regaining trust that she truly loves you and wants to marry you for the "right" reasons. Its her turn to take some risk...she has demonstrated bad faith in your relationship to this point.

As for the regaining trust....right now it seems like you could never trust her again, but in most cases trust can be rebuilt. Of course at first she can/should accept much more oversight from you until that trust is rebuilt, but I believe that most of these things dissolve into the backdrop of craziness that is "life". Every one of us has a few things we aren't proud of in our lifetimes. I would also suggest that if you decide to give her another chance, don't smother her with oversight....If you are constantly checking her phone and email and constantly questioning her whereabouts then at some point she becomes a prisoner and not a girlfriend and that won't work for either of you. Put the responsibility on HER to always make you feel comfortable where she is and who she was with so you don't have to be the "warden" constantly checking up on her. If she truly wants it to work, she will gladly keep you informed until you can build up some trust.

Good luck with all this. It certainly sucks. - Michael

This will be one of the more difficult things to do, but was discussed last night.

Originally Posted by TD

I think the girls would benefit the most by finding out what true loyalty is and the ramifications of not being true.

I agree 100% but what of teaching how to be a better person though change, forgiveness and learning to put aside oneself for the betterment of all involved. Again, not saying this is what I'm doing, but I have to look at both sides of the coin.

Originally Posted by geoffav

Hmmm, have you thought about counseling? I'm not a fan of just walking away without even knowing what issues exist. If either of you attend Church I would highly recommend seeking help there. If you don't, find one that offers marriage/relationship counseling and take advantage of those free services. If it all works out and you don't currently have a Church, you might find a great one for your wedding.

I'm sure some will dislike the advice above, but how are things going now. Don't misunderstand my advice, I don't recommend forcing a faith based solution on anyone. There are Churches who offer help for free and don't expect ANYTHING in return. Use them, they often can assist with child care during counseling/classes etc...

Best of luck, you obviously care about this and I pray the outcome is good.

I'm looking into this tomorrow. It may be that this is never gonna work, but I want to be as sure as I can and have I've looked all possible solutions.

Originally Posted by husam22

I would strongly recommend counselling [or talking to a professional about it] - and not taking any advise from a forum that re-actively calls her a bitch and whore (and thats only a few posts in - I couldn't get through the rest)!

This forum is great for all sorts of things; I've got plumbing, electric and all other sorts of advise; however marital advise is a subject that probably best reserved for the pros...

JMHO

You are correct, but with a large group of like minded people, I hoped to get some insight from both sides of the fence. Most people, when faced with decisions in life will turn to friends before professionals. I concider this group of people friends. Professionals are next.

Originally Posted by Michael Stora

I suspect there is a reason you never got married. Think about it.

Mike

My previous marriage was a small ceremony. I didn't want that this go around. I've saved for the ring I wanted for her. She was happy with a small ceremony, and small ring years ago, but I've put it off for the diamond boulder, and wedding I wanted to have with her. We could have been married years ago, but I've always wanted the best for this relationship.

Originally Posted by fact5racer

If you have had two daughters with her, yet have yet to marry her, I have no problem with her looking elsewere. What ever happened to marriage before kids and why is it so right these days to look at your kids, and then come up with some excuse as to why after TWO kids you still don't have enough love and respect for their mother to marry her? And guys on this forum says YOU should take off with HER daugthers? Guys on this forum are slamming the woman calling her all kinds of derogatory names, and yes I guess your right, she is a **&&^% if she had two kids out of wedlock.......but what does that make you?

P.S. If you meet a woman that will choose their relationship with you over the bond that they have with their child, I wouldn't even share a pet with a woman like that!

Wow! It wasn't about not having love or respect for her, it was more about giving her the best I thought she deserved, Instead of only what I could afford. I wanted her to have a wedding of a life time, a symbol of my love for her, and life time of memories to share with each other. I've purchased a 4 bedroom home, two and a half acres of land, and two reliable vehicles for us start a family. The fact that we have two daughters together before a Marriage license may have offended some, but I offer no apologies for wanting the best with her. Even if it meant doing it out of order. None the less I understand what you meant to say. Hopefully I cleared my thought process up a little up for you. Please don't think bad of me for not following some traditions and doing things a little out of order.

Originally Posted by Someday I Suppose

Rick, I guess I have two thoughts or counter thoughts, the first is you say you love her and have for 30+ years, you have two kids with her, but have never gotten married. As others have said, why not? Whats the thing keeping you from having gotten married in the past?

That said, I also look at it as you have loved her for 30+ years, have been through some good and some bad with her, but you have a life with her and love with her and that isn't something to toss aside without a hell of a lot of thought. Life is too short to live unhappy, but there is also a lot you have together with this woman to consider.

_Scott

See above post, a lot of thought is going to be put into this before I make a rash decision.

Originally Posted by skunkman

BTW - if possible save the naked emails as they made be of value if custody issues arise.

I have.

Originally Posted by crash

I have been told that people who cheat love the thrill of the sneak. They are excited because they know that if they are discovered, it could mean that they lose everything. Basically they are gamblers. Especially the women. Men are more often just horny bastards! Anyway, if she has a taste for it, it won't stop.

Your relationship will not be the same...ever...and shouldn't be.

My opinion? Forget "marriage" in the traditional sense. Do what is best for the kids, and once that is over with, one way or another, THEN see if you want to be around the woman any longer.

Yes, be careful of the common law marriages, but do everything and make all judgements with the kids, ALL OF THEM, in mind first and foremost. IMHO if you don't do this, you will regret it.

You are right, and past experiences with my last marriage and how is was handled, I believe led to my oldest children lives turning out the way it has.

Originally Posted by AC Bill

Very sad situation. Sorry your having troubles.

I'd consult a lawyer, and make sure your at least prepared for the worst outcome. Maybe put some checks and stops, on mutual credit cards and bank accounts.
Things can go sideways in a hurry..especially if your out of town. Might come home to an empty house, and an empty bank account..

Good luck!

I have done this.

Originally Posted by mderka

Just curious, but where do you draw the line in what is cheating and what isn't?

She sent nude pictures to a guy she previously has known. Yeah that's pretty bad. I don't think I would call it cheating, but its definitely a serious lack of judgement and disrespectful at least. But what if she posted her pictures on some website or was caught "sexting" or having an emotional relationship (ie not physical) with a guy. Are these acts cheating too?

I guess its up to the OP to decide on how it makes him feel, but I think its kind of a grey area.

This is very interesting point. You are right, but self preservation kicks in at this time and something needs to be done.

[RicManSr]

Originally Posted by NiceGuyEddie

delete

Pm me please

[samadhi]

Nice, I've been waiting to see how you'd face everyone's opinion.

Good job, because in the end, it's your decision and it seems you are looking at all the options and investigating your thoughts and emotions.

You're a better man than me. I'd have made my decision on the spot based on feelings and stuck with it, just the way I am.

Cheers,
Vic

[QSL]

Unfortunatley depending on the AGE of your kids, you are pretty locked in until they are 18. If they are young, they wont understand why you are leaving unless you blatently make their mother look like a b****, which you cant do as it will make YOU the bad guy. It will be years and years before they truely understand why you left.

If its not unbareable to stay in the relationship for the kids sake, thats the route you need to take. Until they understand why you are leaving WITHOUT you having to explain to them.

You just need to treat the relationship as something that will not go on beyond what it is today.

Kids deserve having both parents. It takes a lot of sacrifice sometimes to do this.

Good luck with whatever you decide. You already know deep down inside what you need to do, without anyone on a car forum telling you.

[RicManSr]

Originally Posted by samadhi

Nice, I've been waiting to see how you'd face everyone's opinion.

Good job, because in the end, it's your decision and it seems you are looking at all the options and investigating your thoughts and emotions.

You're a better man than me. I'd have made my decision on the spot based on feelings and stuck with it, just the way I am.

Cheers,
Vic

Thank you, while emotions do play a large part in all of it, I must be mindfull of the emotional mistakes I've made in the past and consider all options, be it emotional, logical or faith based.

For the record it was extremely difficult not to end it immediately based on emotional self preservation. One valuable lesson I've learned in life is that you should always take care of yourself first, but if in doing so causes regret and/or remorse, then self preservation has not been achieved.

[RicManSr]

I'm sure most of us have endured problems with building cars. Question is, do we quit building because it dont run right and sell?..........well, fact of the matter is that some of us do. And that is respectabe because of the difficuly in it. And some of us don't. I did that the first time and while it was the correct decision to make, i would gladly take some of the hurt away from some of those involved (not all) and done some things differently. I quess I'm just looking for some insight on how to overcome some (building problems) or do I sell because I have the problem in the first place.

Originally Posted by QSL

Unfortunatley depending on the AGE of your kids, you are pretty locked in until they are 18. If they are young, they wont understand why you are leaving unless you blatently make their mother look like a b****, which you cant do as it will make YOU the bad guy. It will be years and years before they truely understand why you left.

If its not unbareable to stay in the relationship for the kids sake, thats the route you need to take. Until they understand why you are leaving WITHOUT you having to explain to them.

You just need to treat the relationship as something that will not go on beyond what it is today.

Kids deserve having both parents. It takes a lot of sacrifice sometimes to do this.

Good luck with whatever you decide. You already know deep down inside what you need to do, without anyone on a car forum telling you.

Due to past circumstances I fully understand this.

[SCracer]

Disclaimer: I confess I have a problem; the problem I have is forgiving. Specifically not being able to forgive when people choose to do wrong.

Let me explain. I try my absolute best to do right by everyone I encounter all the time. It’s my choice and I do leave myself open; often. But again this is my choice.

But when people CHOOSE to do wrong, not accidentally do wrong, that’s different, I can forgive that; but rather make a conscious decision to deceive or misrepresent; it was their intent, they know what they’re doing is wrong. I have a hard time forgetting that. I acknowledge their responsibility, as my spouse, or family member, friend, business partner, acquaintance, neighbor, or just as another human being; which is equal to my responsibility to them. And this responsibility must manifest itself as that trust and respect for one another, or they will loose that respect and trust from me. They have my complete commitment on all these levels, from my wife, to just some person on the side of the road that needs help.

that being said, I don’t know that I could ever get over it. I don’t know how I would ever stop thinking that her business trip was really a planned meeting with that guy. I don’t know what she could ever do to make that thought NOT cross my mind...that's me.

But I think this all boils down to one person...YOU.

You have to ask yourself how you would answer the TRUST question, and how 5, 10, 15, or 20 years from now, how will you feel then.

I know my answer…the thought will cross my mind, and I don’t think I could be forever happy in a relationship that way.

I wish for you the best possible outcome.

[Joe T]

Ricman,

I noticed that you answered a lot of people, and quoted them above....but somehow mine was not. Unfortunately the photos must have beed sent to my spam because I haven't received them yet.

Let me know if you need my email address

[KillerBox]

Originally Posted by JKleiner

To be blunt it sounds like you had a wake up call 6 years ago and didn't answer it.

Sounds to me like she is still shopping.

I just got a divorce 3 months ago after being married to the same person for 17 years. I don't think my ex ever cheated on me but, when she got into her late 30s, she always wanted more and more. Trips, clothes, cars, house and more trips. It was a pit that can't be filled in. A lot of it had to do with her sister and mother blowing crazy money and me being conservative.

I will tell you this since I got a divorce, it is amazing how many girls (from early 20s to 40s) are trying to flirt with me. The problem is I don't want to put up with any of their drama. I am just raising my 2 teenage sons and recharging my batteries right now.

[slaga]

I have struggled with whether or not to post anything in this thread as I have not been in your situation. I don't really have any tangeable advice other than to seek counseling before making any decisions if you have any desire to continue the relationship. If you don't have any desire to continue in the relationship, end it quickly.

Personnally, I would find it extremely difficult to forgive, and even harder to trust again. I tend to be a "fool me once" type of guy. I hope to never be in your shoes. Other than that, I hope you find happiness, with or without her.