Right when I got done mowing yesterday, my mower started billowing smoke. There's oil all over the back of the engine, PTO and muffler. It was leaking so fast I could hear it spattering on the ground.
In the pic below, what I labeled as the oil seal (between the arrows) is plastic, it's slightly loose and it's protruding from the surface of the closure plate by about 1/4".
My engine service manual (factory shop manual) doesn't explain the replacement of this particular seal very well. But it does look like that plastic piece is supposed to be flush with the closure plate. It mentions using a "seal driver" but doesn't mention a part number or anything else about what it might be.
Anyone here have experience with replacing these?
Can it be replaced without removing the closure plate?
Are any special tools required for removing the PTO, like a puller? Is there any risk in pulling the PTO that something might get damaged and need to be replaced also?
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
I think when you pulled the front wheels onto the ramp and let it run for a bit, that the oil went to the back of the sump and the might have covered the crankcase vent while the cylinders pressurized the sump!
That said, if the seal is really blown, you will have to remove the pulley and of course the seal. Clean everything spotless and oil free. Lubricate the seal's lip that goes against the shaft with a little bit of chassis lube (grease gun grease), then position the seal and drive it into position with a piece of PVC tubing and a hammer. Make sure that the PVC's outside diameter is close to that of the seal.
Good luck!
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Regards - Randy Racecar Fab/Support GT40 331 - Weber IDAs, G50 5spd 69 Camaro SS 4spd 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid - 44.2 MPG daily driver 2002 Avalanche 2500 - Avian Target
My GT-40 Build Site: http://www.GT-FORTY.com
X2 on what Randy said. We see that happen quite a bit on those. The heat tends to harden the rubber of the seal to the point they will basically fall out.
I laughed when you described the seal as being plastic, it's so hard it does feel like it!
I took the mower up to a shop in town and left it there. They're not going to have it ready for a week to 10 days and couldn't give me an estimate on the spot. I need to get a mower and get the grass cut, damnit!
Sooo...dealers nearest me carry the following products:
Dixie Chopper
ExMark
Bad Boy
Husqvarna
Cub Cadet (but not commercial)
I need commercial grade. I have 20 acres to mow and I don't dick around. If the grass is tall I mow it. If there are sticks on the ground I mow over them. I bash into fence posts and run over saplings. I even use it to shove fallen trees out of the way. My Husqvarna has withstood 10 years of that punishment so far. My next mower has to be as good or better.
Let's hear your recommendations.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
While it has held up to my abuse, there are a few things about the Husqvarna that I don't like at all.
1. Clippings build up on the deck very fast and I have to stop and clear it otherwise the belt can heat up and even pop off a pulley.
2. The deck spindles suck. They're not serviceable and they don't hold up. Seems I have to replace at least one per season and they're about 90 bucks to replace.
3. The hoses on the drive system are leaky. More of a nuisance than anything but the hoses on my tractor are the same age and have never leaked. There are ways to do fittings and there are ways to do fittings.
I guess there's really no way to tell how well a particular brand is going to hold up long term. Can't really compare my ten-year-old mower to what's on the market now.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
I need to get a mower and get the grass cut, damnit!
Let's hear your recommendations.
Yard equipment never seems to break down AFTER mowing season ... and during season, dealers and repair shops are always jammed with work. Turn-around time on repairs always seems like "one day short of forever"
Short term recommendation - check the local tool rental places for daily rental of something suitable. Then repeat as needed 'till yours is back from the shop , or till you can make an informed decision on buying a replacement - NOT a decision done in a rush 'cause the grass needs mowing right now ...
YMMV
Lynn
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Retired and living in southern Utah where's it's warm and dry, and where every day is a good day as long as you wake up on top of the dirt!.
FFR 7591 Anniversary Edition (#10 of 15)
Build school: Feb. 2012, Order date: July '12, Delivery date: 23 Sept '12
I had a commercial 25hp exmark 60" LazerZ for 10 yrs. I bought it 6 yrs old. The last 3 years it developed a problem in the right side cylinder. I think the oil ring went bad. It fouled the plug after each time I cut. I would change the plug before each cut and top off the oil. I finally sold it to my brother and bought a new, one yr. old leftover, 34hp lazerZ 60" X model. What a freakin beast this thing is. Cuts at 12mph, never boogs, even with 4" high wet grass. This mower "almost" has too much power, ha ha. Nothing has too much power!
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FFR3842, Levy Forged 349ci/500hp, AFR185's, Wilwood 6/4 piston Superlites, Koni DAs, Magnesium bellhousing and Tilton Triple disk clutch, GF5R dog ringed 5 speed, 3link, VPM sway bars, Hoosier A6s, CCW forged wheels, wings, undertray, diffuser
Yard equipment never seems to break down AFTER mowing season ... and during season, dealers and repair shops are always jammed with work. Turn-around time on repairs always seems like "one day short of forever"
Short term recommendation - check the local tool rental places for daily rental of something suitable. Then repeat as needed 'till yours is back from the shop , or till you can make an informed decision on buying a replacement - NOT a decision done in a rush 'cause the grass needs mowing right now ...
YMMV
Lynn
Renting is certainly an option, but it's $175 a day. The only way to capitalize on that is to rent for one day on Saturday and return it on Monday morning. But I also think I could buy a used mower under a thousand, use it a couple of times and either resell it or keep it for a back up.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
I had a commercial 25hp exmark 60" LazerZ for 10 yrs. I bought it 6 yrs old. The last 3 years it developed a problem in the right side cylinder. I think the oil ring went bad. It fouled the plug after each time I cut. I would change the plug before each cut and top off the oil. I finally sold it to my brother and bought a new, one yr. old leftover, 34hp lazerZ 60" X model. What a freakin beast this thing is. Cuts at 12mph, never boogs, even with 4" high wet grass. This mower "almost" has too much power, ha ha. Nothing has too much power!
Thanks for the endorsement. It looks like all of the manufacturers have upped the hp on their 60" mowers. My current is 25 hp and will bog down in heavy grass. I generally mow to 3.5" but I'm often cutting grass that's 8". Mostly because downtime is allowing the grass to grow beyond where I would normally cut it. I think something with 30+ hp would work a little better.
Now, if I had a mower that would shred it in half the time...
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
Have you looked at DR Power tools? A lot of the tools they make are really innovative, my dad had picked up one of their trimmers when they first came out and I beat that thing making money as a kid. Pretty sure they're American as well...
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-Mk 3 #4900, home built '94 408W, Tremec 3550, 3.55 IRS, FFR 9"/10.5" wheels and 255/40Z17 - 315/35Z17 Nitto NT-05, ISIS...didn't follow the budget at all but having a blast. First go-kart 21 Sep 2011!
Renting is certainly an option, but it's $175 a day. The only way to capitalize on that is to rent for one day on Saturday and return it on Monday morning. But I also think I could buy a used mower under a thousand, use it a couple of times and either resell it or keep it for a back up.
Yeah - I missed the "20 acres to mow" note until after I'd posted my suggestion. That much ground to cover makes renting a less viable option - and the idea of some thing used bought "for now" and then either flipped or kept as back-up makes good sense.
Lynn
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Retired and living in southern Utah where's it's warm and dry, and where every day is a good day as long as you wake up on top of the dirt!.
FFR 7591 Anniversary Edition (#10 of 15)
Build school: Feb. 2012, Order date: July '12, Delivery date: 23 Sept '12
I think you would need a tractor with the very large mower deck behind to cut 20 acres. Even a 72" LazerZ would take a while. In an open field I can cut 1 acre in 15 minutes.
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FFR3842, Levy Forged 349ci/500hp, AFR185's, Wilwood 6/4 piston Superlites, Koni DAs, Magnesium bellhousing and Tilton Triple disk clutch, GF5R dog ringed 5 speed, 3link, VPM sway bars, Hoosier A6s, CCW forged wheels, wings, undertray, diffuser
I think you would need a tractor with the very large mower deck behind to cut 20 acres. Even a 72" LazerZ would take a while. In an open field I can cut 1 acre in 15 minutes.
I have a tractor too and it's a beaut! But it's not as maneuverable as a mower so it actually takes just as long. With my zero turn I can tuck the left side of the deck under fence rails and it reduces my weed wacking. I can also get under and around trees and I have a lot of trees. My driveway is lined with around twenty sycamores on each side. The only thing the tractor is good for is mowing the pastures and even then, it's only marginally faster with a 6' Bush Hog than the 5' zero turn (unless the grass is really high). Even if I have to use the Bush Hog, I still go around the perimeter of the pastures and out buildings with the zero turn.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
I'm budgeting around $9k for this and part of it has to be financed so a diesel is out of the question. The 72" mowers are too big. I have lots of tight spaces and low hanging limbs.
A local dealer delivered a Bad Boy Outlaw XP demo yesterday. It's a 60" with a Kawasaki FX85V. Surprisingly, this engine is only 26 hp but it plowed through heavier grass at a much faster rate than my 25 hp Husqvarna. On the Bad Boy web site they only list the torque rating which is 44 lbs/ft @ 2400. The same model can also have a Vanguard engine with 36 hp and 59 lbs/ft.
The same dealer also has Exmarks so I was able to do a side-by-side visual comparison. I'm sure the Exmarks are great mowers, but they have too many fiddly little parts that are exposed to all the things I bash into on a regular basis.
I also took a closer look at the comparable Dixie Chopper. I don't like the decks at all. I can cross that one off my list.
What I really liked about the Bad Boy:
It has rubber bushings on all four wheels and an upgraded seat that make it a smoother ride. It was much more pleasant mowing the horse pastures with it.
The deck is super easy to clean and doesn't collect grass that much any way. There are no gussets to trap the grass and allow it to build up under the pulleys.
The deck is super strong; 1/4" steel. No protruding parts to get bent on stumps, rocks or sticks.
Handled heavy grass with no problem.
What I disliked about the Bad Boy:
Came with a rear spoiler. The only practical purpose it might serve that I can see is it covers the intake box which is mounted above the engine. The dealer orders his with this feature. It actually got in the way and it's easy to forget it's there.
The casters are really wide because of the rubber dampers so they make it more difficult for me to maneuver the left side of the deck under fence rails.
It comes with an electronic deck lifter which can be overridden with a foot control. I really don't want that. It's just more to go wrong.
The seating position is a little higher than my Husqvarna. Not a big deal. Just means it's harder for me to get under low hanging limbs, which I should trim anyway but I never seem to have the time. Maybe with a faster mower I can finally get around to doing that.
Now, the Bad Boy website lists this machine as starting at $8400 and the dealer is asking $9150. I need to talk to him about what he can do on the price if I get the machine without the spoiler, with solid casters (as opposed to pneumatic) and with the Vanguard engine. I'm not really sure I need the other engine but I'd really like to see the difference 10 hp can make. Outlaw XP Lawn Mower | Bad Boy Mowers
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
Well, I did it. My new Bad Boy Outlaw XP was delivered yesterday. I went with the Kawasaki engine but it turns out that its a larger engine than what was on their website in my earlier post. They have since updated their site.
This is an 852cc engine which supposedly translates to around 31 hp. That makes more sense with regard to its performance.
My mower came with an issue though. The right caster is wobbling horribly. I think it's because it is not bearing enough weight. When parked on flat cement, I can easily twist the right caster with my hands while the left takes considerable effort. I checked tire pressures and the right rear was 2 lbs more than the left. I let out that 2 lbs and could see the right side of the mower drop a little. It helped but it was still not enough to eliminate the problem. The demo mower (same model) did not have this problem. The dealer is sending a technician out on Monday to take a look at it. Probably needs some wedge in the left rear.
I mowed for about 3 hours. The first field I mowed had a ton of sticks and limbs from the recent storms. One of them wedged itself into the belt for the drive system and eventually popped the belt off. Had a lot of down time walking back and forth trying to find the right tools to pry the tensioner so I could put the belt back on. Turned out to be easier to remove the spring mount on the frame. Someone put some thought into ensuring easy access to the mount with tools. Can't wait to get it up in the air and see if the limbs did any damage to the underside of the deck.
Even with the wobbling wheel it mowed like a champ. Our back pasture was overgrown with thick grass that was 1 to 2 feet high. When I say thick I mean thick like a well-watered lawn kind of thick. It chewed through the thickest stuff very well at about 4-5'/sec. It left some stubbly spots but that's to be expected with grass that high. I don't think I could have done it any faster with the Bush Hog since the tractor is not as maneuverable and it's a small, odd shaped pasture. My 27hp Husqvarna would have been crawling through this stuff at less than 2'/sec.
Edit: I think for a mower in this price range, you won't find anything tougher. The comparable Exmark in power and size was $12k and I don't think it would be as durable as the Bad Boy.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
The dealer picked up my mower at about 12:30 on Monday and brought it back around 3:30. Turns out the caster wobble was happening because the spindle nuts were not torqued to spec. She's as smooth as silk now.
Mowed for about an hour this evening. This thing is so much less fatiguing than my old Husqvarna. Rubber dampers and a longer wheelbase make a world of difference.
Yeah. I'm stoked.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
I have enjoyed my new Exmark LazerZ X-series 34hp this season. Its nice when the mower is brand new.
What is with the Bad Boy wing. Are you hitting 100mph on the straights!
I know. I took my mower without the wing. The dealer orders all of his with the wing ($140 option) and sells the heck out of them. When I told him the wing got in my way his response was, "Well, you can take it off." Ya think?
On another note, the shop in town finally gave me an estimate on my old Husqvarna mower. They're going to replace the rear oil seal and clean out the PVC system for under $200. I'll use that mower for trimming along the fences and around trees (it's about half the weight of the Bad Boy). It should last another 5 years or more. Plus I still have a Cub Cadet I'm "restoring". That's taking forever. But I've always wanted to have a back up mower for when stuff breaks.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
X2 on what Randy said. We see that happen quite a bit on those. The heat tends to harden the rubber of the seal to the point they will basically fall out.
I laughed when you described the seal as being plastic, it's so hard it does feel like it!
I swear the shop owner said exactly what you said word for word. I got out of there with the oil seal replaced, oil change, filter and a ground wire replaced for $129. That last item fixed a problem that I've been battling for two years. It only took two weeks for them to get to it.
'Course, now it's raining.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
That's not bad at all. Concerning that ground wire, can I ask what issue you were having? Have a feeling I may already know......
Anyway, glad it has all worked out.
That's not bad at all. Concerning that ground wire, can I ask what issue you were having? Have a feeling I may already know......
Anyway, glad it has all worked out.
The trouble began with difficulty in starting the motor. Sometimes I would turn the key to the start position and get nothing. I would turn it a few more times and suddenly it would catch and start. It got to the point that I could hear the starter engage but it wouldn't turn over. So I got in the habit of hooking up my charger and jump starting. Eventually, even that didn't work. I tried replacing the ignition switch and then all of the relays but it made no difference. I used a multimeter between the battery and the starter and was getting 12 volts but I didn't know for sure how to test and read the amps. A couple of months ago I bought one of those remote starter switches. When I wanted to start the mower I would connect it directly to the two posts on the starter, put the key in the run position and it would fire every time. That told me the starter was not getting enough amps and planned to start checking wires but that's as far as I got with it. I didn't get a chance to ask them which ground wire they changed. I never suspected a ground wire because I figured that the starter was grounded through the engine.
Working full time (plus overtime) and commuting two and a half hours a day doesn't leave much time or energy to muck with stuff. Pile on 6 - 12 hours of mowing per week plus other daily chores...then storms that are knocking limbs down...power outages...it's been one of those summers.
This is my little 30 acre slice of heaven. The 10 acre parcel on the right is usually cut for hay, which is why I only mentioned 20 acres above. But the past couple of years I've had to mow it down because the farmer that is supposed to cut it doesn't get to it.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
The trouble began with difficulty in starting the motor. Sometimes I would turn the key to the start position and get nothing. I would turn it a few more times and suddenly it would catch and start. It got to the point that I could hear the starter engage but it wouldn't turn over. So I got in the habit of hooking up my charger and jump starting. Eventually, even that didn't work. I tried replacing the ignition switch and then all of the relays but it made no difference. I used a multimeter between the battery and the starter and was getting 12 volts but I didn't know for sure how to test and read the amps. A couple of months ago I bought one of those remote starter switches. When I wanted to start the mower I would connect it directly to the two posts on the starter, put the key in the run position and it would fire every time. That told me the starter was not getting enough amps and planned to start checking wires but that's as far as I got with it. I didn't get a chance to ask them which ground wire they changed. I never suspected a ground wire because I figured that the starter was grounded through the engine.
Working full time (plus overtime) and commuting two and a half hours a day doesn't leave much time or energy to muck with stuff. Pile on 6 - 12 hours of mowing per week plus other daily chores...then storms that are knocking limbs down...power outages...it's been one of those summers.
This is my little 30 acre slice of heaven. The 10 acre parcel on the right is usually cut for hay, which is why I only mentioned 20 acres above. But the past couple of years I've had to mow it down because the farmer that is supposed to cut it doesn't get to it.
That is a lot to have to mow! Glad it's you not me! Thanks for describing your problem. It wasn't what I had thought it might be. From your description I would guess they changed the battery ground wire. It's about the only wire we ever have to change for that kind of problem. The rest of the time it's a matter of cleaning where the grounds connect to the frame.
That is a lot to have to mow! Glad it's you not me! Thanks for describing your problem. It wasn't what I had thought it might be. From your description I would guess they changed the battery ground wire. It's about the only wire we ever have to change for that kind of problem. The rest of the time it's a matter of cleaning where the grounds connect to the frame.
You're probably right. I didn't take the time to look it over carefully but I could see that the two small wires that come out of the harness and connect to the negative post on the battery were crimped into a shiny new ring terminal. They may have put a new terminal on the battery ground too.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
Like a hole in the head! I have enough animals to care for. Besides, goats jump on cars. I used to be a farrier and one customer had 6 or 8 goats that would climb all over my truck while I worked on the horses.
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
I gotta say I'm pleased as punch with the new mower. Last evening I cut the areas in yellow below in 45 minutes. To give you a sense of size, that building between them is 140 x 70. The grass was 8"-12" high and thick as thieves. I cut it down to 3.5". That time included walking from the house to the mower, pouring 10 gallons of fuel to fill it up, a couple of minutes to brush the clippings off the deck afterwards and walking back to the house to plop into my Lazy Boy.
Now I have to completely alter my perception of how much time I'll have for things other than mowing.
I was reading the owner's manual the other day and they recommended that one never cut more than one third of the length of the grass at once. If I followed that advice, I'd be mowing every day!
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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." - 1971, Steve McQueen, Le Mans
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Glad it's you not me!
If I followed that advice, I'd be mowing every day!
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