Wow.. If you live in Scranton, PA I think you are going to have a hard time retaining and hiring quality police officers and other city employees very soon. That's crazy..
I'm really wondering what's going to happen in Stockton CA? I have a friend that lives there and it is also the murder capital lately of CA. I would never even venture into that city without him next to me. We drove around lately and he warned me of areas not to be caught in at night. Some of them looked like new tract home neighborhoods.
He also told me a story of a drive by, and then the TWO times cops were shot at while trying to investigate the scene days later. The fist time one of the cops was killed, probably by the original shooter, who had initially killed a couple of young guys there. The second investigating officers shot the guy dead when he tried to kill them too. They traced the dead guys gun to the two previous shootings. Too bad a cop got killed in this whole deal, but the point is, Stockton, in many areas, resembles a war zone, where gang bangers have no second thoughts about gunning down LEOs and I don't think a BK filing will help things much.
This is sad, but I can't say I am surprised.
I have no issue with everyone making a good wage, but I think we finally hit the day of rekoning. There was a day when state workers made ok money and had good benefits. Today it seems in many cases it is very good money with excellent benefits, and the math cannot possibly work. The city in CA that just went bankrupt has firemen with 20 years in retiring at 90% pay and getting $150,000 per year since they get 90% of their last years pay-and they work every hour they possibly can the last year.
I think they should get good pay and the states should put money into a 401k or similar. The day they retire the state hands them their 401 and says good bye, just like in any non city, state, or federal job.
Seems strange contracted wages can be lowered without a bankruptcy judge agreeing to allow "burdensome contracts" to be abridged.
With so many govenmental entities facing similar (inadequacy of funding) issues, it seems odd they would chop current workers wages rather than going after retirement payments.
Either situation is a Hobson's Choice but, this doesn't do much to engender loyalty amongst your current workers. 'Coure, it's better than laying everyone off, I guess (and they, presumably, still have benefits)
Don't know what kind of pissing content is going on with the city counsel but, we'll see more of this if the general economy doesn't improve.
...it seems odd they would chop current workers wages rather than going after retirement payments.
If it's anything like Indiana, the City does not control the public employee's pension. Here, all municipal employees are in a state mandated pension plan and the State reserves all rights to mishandle, mismanage, and misuse those funds.
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-Andrew-
- If the answer to the question is "the government" it was a stupid question to begin with.
Why would it be a better idea to cut retiree pay before current employee pay..????
It would certainly be a terrible choice but not being able to pay current employees equals (possibly) current crime on the streets.
Would you risk your life for $7.25? I mean, it would be hard to hire replacements too.
As you know, some retirement obligation have pyramided to the point where governments are paying more to retirees than to active workers. It's breaking a promise but, clearly, at-some-point everybody's going to take a haircut.
It would certainly be a terrible choice but not being able to pay current employees equals (possibly) current crime on the streets.
Would you risk your life for $7.25? I mean, it would be hard to hire replacements too.
As you know, some retirement obligation have pyramided to the point where governments are paying more to retirees than to active workers. It's breaking a promise but, clearly, at-some-point everybody's going to take a haircut.
Tough choice I guess.. I would just hate to see some 60+ year old retirees and their families lose their houses and signing up for food stamps because of mismanagement of city budgets. I guess I'm sort of old fashion in believe a promise made is a promise to be kept. I think cutting retiree pay should be the LAST option. No promises about future wages has likely been made to current employees and they are young enough to seek alternate or additional employment. Luckily my retirement income is locked in thanks to a separate pension fund that has already been funded by the city and is held and managed by a separate entity. Keep in mind, most pension funds aren't like the ones that you always hear about in the news where people retire after 25 years and receive 90%+ of their pay.
Keep in mind, most pension funds aren't like the ones that you always hear about in the news where people retire after 25 years and receive 90%+ of their pay.
Keep in mind, most people don't have one at all.
Cheers, John
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My little town of Norton is currently paying for 3 police chiefs. Two retired and one current. The first retiree is about 75 years old. The second retiree is 46 years old and a very good friend of mine. He retired at 43 after 25 years of service. 66% of his pay plus medical for life. And people wonder why towns are going broke.
....and know they need to invest more aggressively throughout their career if they really want to retire after 20-30 years.. I hate to say it, but a very large percentage of people just don't make investing and saving a priority..
Tough choice I guess......... my retirement income is locked in thanks to a separate pension fund that has already been funded by the city and is held and managed by a separate entity. .
We've gotten to the point where LOTS of towns will be dealing with this issue. Given that state and local governments can't print money (like the fed can for Social Security), I'm afraid they're going to be breaking a LOT of promises.
The fact that anyone who could do math (at the time) knew the deals were a lie, doesn't make it any more palatable.
You should be eternally grateful your pension was actually funded (as long as it isn;t with the Teamsters) you'll be OK. I would presume (because the town actually FUNDED your pension), at-the-time, your contract seemed LESS generous than some of your peers who bought the deception (of "unfunded liabilities"). Who'd ever thought "regular people" would be talking about, hitherto, arcane accounting concepts?
I have good friends in Rhode Island who have already been hit with big pension cuts, yet their pensions are still magnitudes better than anything you see in the private sector. We got to this point because certain no ball politicians for years have agreed to what they (as well as union officials negotiating the contracts) knew would be an unsustainable model. 6% annual cost of living increases in your pension for instance. One town has filed bankruptcy, two are in the hands of a appointed recievers, Providence is on the edge of bankrupty. Big mess, should they all fail RI could be the first state to be unable to meet it's financial obligations.
Well, and this isn't a union or non union opinion, it seems to me that in many of these government "deals" there was a very lopsided negotiating process. The politicians knew they would not be there forever, and they also worked under the premise of "you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours" with no actual faces known to these individuals that would "take the fall". In other words there was no one to show restraint because of the pain these deals created. Now that, as you say "the day of reckoning" is upon us and we are ALL feeling the pain, it may just be time to say something along the lines of..."A "reasonable" pension will be paid, but in many cases the deals that were made were done with the individual in mind and not the greater good of the average citizen and the public at large. Public Service has become Public Privelage, and all contracts will be reviewed. All contracts that are above the average and "reasonable" payout scale will be adjusted accordingly". Yeah it's not a free market opinion, but then again, these types of positions were never subject to the traditional forces of a free market to begin with. Hence, where we find ourselves.
The politicians knew they would not be there forever, and they also worked under the premise of "you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours" with no actual faces known to these individuals that would "take the fall".
Impossible to ever prove that is what they were doing, but if it could be proven those politicians should be put in jail right next to Madoff and all the others that have ruined the retirement goals/plans of so many people. People only have one life, so it's not like people can start over and try it again a different way.
On a side note, I saw on the news a couple of days ago that most of Madoff's clients are going to likely recover about 50% of their money..
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