I have to get this off of my chest and out in the open for everyone to hear! All too often people report about bad things on the web and the good stuff can get left behind.
Anyway, my GTM arrived on June 25th, delivered by Stewart Transport. The first item off of the truck was the front end carried by myself and a friend of mine. The second item off of the truck was the front windshield. Seeing as how there was a bunch of stuff still to unload, I decided to take the windshield over to my grass area...completely out of the way of all of this loading and unloading. I walked over to the grass and layed the windshield down. (With the curved ends pointing in the air.) I stood up and less than a second later..."POP". I looked down and noticed my windshield cracked straight down the center. WTF? Everyone standing around was stunned.
Fast forward...
I took a few pictures and called Seth at FFR to let him know what happened. He tells me that he will relay this information to his manager and get back to me. After our conversation, I sent him an e-mail with the pictures I took so FFR could see what I was talking about.
The next day I get an e-mail from Seth that reads basically, "Sorry about your windshield, my manager says the glass was perfect when it left, the bend is too great to lay it down like you did, and it is $250 for a new one!"
Now, I'm not sure what I was hoping for in a response...but I can tell you THAT WAS NOT IT.
Fast Forward...
I decided that the response I got was not acceptible considering there was nothing on the glass telling me how fragile it was and that it could not support its own weight etc. Seeing as how not everyone is a glass expert and should know this...I felt that writing my experience to Dave Smith and explaining to him how disappointing my 1st minute of ownership was and that I wanted him to know about the response I had received from one of his employees.
Fast Forward...
Although I never got a chance to speak with Dave and he never personally responded to my e-mail...I just wanted everyone to know that yesterday I received a new windshield delivered at no charge! (Overnight shipping no less)
To end this long mess of a babbling e-mail I just wanted to say that:
Although I did not feel negligent in breaking the windshield...I also never felt FFR broke it either. I think I was hoping for a sympathy response to make me feel like less of an idiot and an offer to split the cost of a new one...which I am still more than willing to do! I think that if the glass is that fragile and can be only placed one way...there should be a little sticker on the glass saying so. The poeple I've talked to think the glass was defective in the first place and should have never of broke so easily.
All I know is my 1st minute of this build sucked and after keeping my composure and explaining my way up the ladder...FFR has exceeded my expectations to this point. [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
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“If you didn’t have enough time to do it right the first time. How come you always have time to go back and do it again?” FFR1000186CP
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.
The first indication that something was going wrong was when Robert decided to put a piece of glass on the ground. Second, was to put the glass there unsupported along it's curvature. Both of these common sense. If you want to break a piece of glass, this is the way to do it.
What I'm commenting on, is Roberts lack of willingness to accept the cause of his actions, as the end result of a broken windshield. It's so easy to look at someone like FFR as having "Deep Pockets", what the heck, they're making too much money on one of these kits anyway, Right! If it was damaged in shipping, All of us would be in His camp with him, and so would FFR, no doubt about it.
Hank
[img]graemlins/darkbluecoupe.gif[/img]
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“If you didn’t have enough time to do it right the first time. How come you always have time to go back and do it again?” FFR1000186CP
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.
It appears to me that Stealthjr created this thread to help other members and to comment on the extraordinary service provided by FFR
Hankl - what was the reason for your two posts? You don't need to answer, but I agree with Aaron and would like to add, we don't need comments like that....
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John Hudson FFR 2513 My427SC.com
Hey Hank...kiss my AZZ! and take your all mighty attitude elsewhere chief! Better yet, why don't you send me an e-mail with some contact info and we can hook-up! Too bad this post wasn't 2 weeks ago when I was in Santa Cruz as I could have paid you a visit.
So, setting the glass down on a soft surface (grass) was not so bright? Geez, the 6 people standing around me while I did it must not be so bright either. Obviously, you are an ass...err I mean glass expert?
Aaron,
Thanks man for your .02! It was handed to me completely unprotected and I figured laying it on the grass out of the way was better than standing it up on a hard surface somewhere. Apparently I was wrong.
Buggy222,
So, your not a glass expert either huh? Wow, 2 of us on one forum...go figure. Again, I never expected or asked for a free windshield...I was just disappointed in the original response is all. My expectations were certainly exceeded in the end. Thanks and by the way...a friend of mine pulled over your son while he was driving the GTM around town and had a picture taken with your car!
TK1,
Obviously, I'm the wrong person to ask! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Maybe "Sphank" can share his wisdom for those of us that didn't take Glass 101 in school. I would just like to suggest you don't lay it with the ends facing up!
Thanks to you as well John!
My post was intended to share how FFR stepped up and ultimately did more than what was necessary. Since I have been on this forum...I have read many times from others about FFR's incredible customer service. I thought I would just add to the growing list of believers! I never expected a keyboard Ninja to ruin this thread.
__________________
“If you didn’t have enough time to do it right the first time. How come you always have time to go back and do it again?” FFR1000186CP
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.
Aaron, I have to say my reaction was similar to Hank's.
Glass is fragile (that's why a single stone can shatter it). Supporting the entire weight of a pane on a single line / point and against the curvature of the glass is ASKING for trouble. Even if you don't know about glass, you should use the old "stop and think" plan and ask someone who does, or at least make sure you err on the safe side...
Stealthjr - I think you owe FF $250 worth of word of mouth advertising. [img]smile.gif[/img] Glad it worked out for you.
Hankl,
You have mail as I'll deal with you privately from here on out.
PhilJohn,
I have no problem admitting I do not know about glass. At the same time...there were 2 Stewart Transport folks that deliver these things all the time that were dumbfounded the glass broke. In fact, Scott was the one that told me "there had to be something wrong with the glass to do that." There were a few of my friends around as well that did not see an issue with it.
Oh well, I am becoming more and more amazed at some of these responses. At least your response was constructive...I can deal with that and don't mind it at all.
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“If you didn’t have enough time to do it right the first time. How come you always have time to go back and do it again?” FFR1000186CP
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.
I can appreciate your post and Im glad you made it! Honestly, I wouldnt have thought laying a glass windshield down on soft grass would have cracked it. I can see how someone might have done that.. I would have probably done the same thing.
Anyhow.. great to hear you were taken care of by FFR! Fantastic news, and just what I would expect from them.
Now on with the build... seeing some of your previous projects, I cant wait to see what you do with the car!
Hank, the comments made were uncalled for. I can see your point but it did nothing to improve the thread. Everyone here does stupid stuff. Heck my GTM did not start because I did not put the connections together tight enough, just dumb. No one saw fit to point it out. (thanks all). My point is the thread went from constructive to vile in a second or two.
Robert, Although I understand your response, no reason to point out the fool when they are quite capable of wearing the red light and siren by themselves. (hurts doesn't it hank?)
I would guess that almost everyone with a GTM has stored the glass similarly. I know I have. I have the rear glass laying on the floor curve up with the windscreen on top of it curve up. Both in the guest room under the bed I have to agree that if the glass is that fragile it needs its own box, which is how the roadster comes. Not one person I have ever seen here has left the glass in the car for more than a few hours. Step one; remove glass, Step two, remove body. My thinking was I do not want to chip the edges. A chip in the edge would lead to a crack after install. So what now? Does everyone need a glass rack?
There are a lot of talented people with a lot of information. Share the information and keep any hurtfull comments to yourself. I am guilty of this also and have tried to refrain.
Like David B pointed out. Glad FFR came through, we have been with them for almost 10 years. We have frustration at times but never have I been let down.
On with the build. I hope no one is further offended, Cheers Richard.
Need help finishing your project we can help here or at your shop.
FFR GTM #34 first GTM with working AC. 400 hp LS1 w/G50
FFR coupe 3617CP 331 Stack EFI T-5 IRS Cobra brakes, AC/heat.
Both cars by NRC, we can build (and have built) any FFR product.
We also make and sell a ton of great parts for the FFR community.
Brake kits, AC systems, #1 supplier of Team III wheels.
What in the world was so stupid about what Robert did? The first thing the Steward people wanted to do was remove the windshield from the car so that it didn't get damaged moving the body out. I live on a 1 1/2 acre lot and needed to place mine someplace close. I was handed the windshield and turned and placed it on the grass (the softest, most compliant area possible). I didn't have any problems. It would have put more stress on the glass had I put it with the curved ends down. I even went so far as to put a post in here asking about storing the glass in the attic and what to consider for support. I certainly didn't get any screams of concern. I have a glass business next door to my business and since I know the guy I walked over and asked him about this. He said the glass shouldn't have broken, period. He also noted that differences in glass especially the windshields coming from Mexico (sub-standard). I fully understand Roberts reply and fully support his view. I think both sides handled this well and consider the outcome to be a show of good business sense. I certainly can relate to bad business practices (as I'm sure most of you who have felt the pain can), and find this to merely be a good business showing it true stripes. Good luck Robert on the rest of your build.
John
I got pulled into this thread because it was reported, and rightfully so.
OK so Hank makes a comment that is non constructive. I can see that a few responded to him and stated that he was being harsh, etc. Maybe he's having a bad day, whatever, but he wasn't being vicious. I'm not excusing his posts, just providing perspective in relation to what happened via Robert's reaction.
The guy I have a real problem with here is Robert (Stealthjr) who reacted with veiled threats of violence. NOT COOL. If Hank stepped over the line, Robert lept over it.
I can't see any more constructive comments coming out of this thread.
Against my better judgment, I'm keeping this thread open, for now. 3 moderators have now joined this discussion, and there is a reason for that. It's not a coincidence.
Location: Somewhere between Arkansas and Colorado....
Posts: 2,004
Shouldn't something this fragile be in some sort of packaging? Everything I have received from FFR has been packaged very well.
They fixed it, maybe they rethink how they ship them if they have more problems.
Originally posted by mikeinatlanta: I had my F150 for about a week and one morning the windshield cracked with a bang when I started the truck. Glass can be strange.
I got mad once and punched the inside of my CR-V windshield...my fist went nearly through it! I didnt even hit it that hard...just weird glass.
I think taping it to the body is the best place for it because that area is shaped to fit the glass.
Guys...I apologize to anyone that was offended by my comments. However, I will never allow anyone to belittle me on a public forum while sitting behind a keyboard as I prefer to take it face to face and let Hank know it immediately. I admit I should have sent him my thoughts through PM as I also did later.
Once again, my point of this post was to let everyone know that may be on the fence about such a purchase that they are in good hands with FFR. It is obvious to me by the majority of the replies that I am indeed not alone in this glass ordeal and others have done the same thing without having failure.
Kudos to FFR for going beyond what was asked or requested of them. Kudos to FFR for building what appears to be a hell of a car. Finally, Kudos to those of you willing to add something positive to what was supposed to be a positive thread.
I look forward to starting on my GTM in the next month or two. However, I promised myself I would first finish getting my 8 second Camaro moving under its own power!
The first thing you are going to do is remove the body to get started, so you are going to have to remove the windshield and put it somewhere. Even if you then place it back on the body, during body prep, you have going to have to store it. For most builders, the glass is going to be stored somewhere for 6-12 months, so some guidance on how to store it (or its own box) would be valuable.
Originally posted by AR-cobra: If taping to the body is the best place, why was it removed to unload from the truck?
Stewart Transport wanted to remove it for safety reasons and I agreed with them. I didn't have a problem and I did it the same way as Robert. I must admit being jumped on for submitting a post really sours the experience, but I believe the majority of people here are interested in the same thing and can respect each others view point without demeaning them.
John
Need help finishing your project we can help here or at your shop.
FFR GTM #34 first GTM with working AC. 400 hp LS1 w/G50
FFR coupe 3617CP 331 Stack EFI T-5 IRS Cobra brakes, AC/heat.
Both cars by NRC, we can build (and have built) any FFR product.
We also make and sell a ton of great parts for the FFR community.
Brake kits, AC systems, #1 supplier of Team III wheels.
I can see the view's from both Robert and Hank. But this reply is not about that! From what I saw from this post was that the employee (Seth) had been put in a bad spot from this mishap! This was a tricky one of those Who's at fualt here cases! In my eye's a 50/50 deal should have been worked out! I feel writing about what had happened and your thoughts to help make it a better 1st impression of ownwership would have been better than writing a letter of complaint about the responce givin by an employee. I think the only real victim here was the Employee! It's all been resolved and is over now. Let's all live and learn from this and get back to the building at Hand!
Only other way I would store is resting it on its long edge where it is strongest. I am not going to go and totally bash the way you did it, but it seems more logical to me to throw a towel on the garage floor and rest the windshield long side down against a wall.
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and take your all mighty attitude elsewhere chief! Better yet, why don't you send me an e-mail with some contact info and we can hook-up! Too bad this post wasn't 2 weeks ago when I was in Santa Cruz as I could have paid you a visit. 
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