I figured I'd ask this in public as others may want the information as well. Crash offers these GTM tail lights as an alternative and I'm thinking about using them on my build. There's some language there about them not including integral turn signal and back-up light yadayadayada. If I'm using ISIS, does that matter to me? Any other pros/cons? Why do I have it in my head that LEDs can be problematic with ISIS?
Thanks for your consideration on the LED tail lights.
We have some very limited edition tail lights that are going to be on the PDG GTM at SEMA in a couple of weeks. These DO integrate back up and yellow turn signals, but are very difficult for me to get ahold of and are pretty pricey. Not Ferrari pricey, but in the $100+ per category.
The issue with LED tail lights is that they can sometimes not draw enough current to facilitate the workings of things like flasher units that require a certain amount of current to operate. I would think that the Isis system would actually be the solution to this issue as I would assume, like other programmable logic controllers, that the threshold levels can be set. IIRC Isis stuff can only be adjusted/set by the factory, but a simple call when purchasing should result in a controller that is set up for LED tail lights.
If you go with a regular wiring harness and flasher unit, then you may have to add a resistor or two to get the flasher to function properly. All that really has to happen is that enough current flows for the other functions to work properly.
This is the only issue I know about, but if someone else has something, by all means, post it up and I will come up with a solution.
ISIS is very easy to set up with regular or LED lights. ISIS doesn't care what the load is. When you buy the Master Cell and Power cells, they come preconfigured or... you can tell them where all your inputs/outputs will be except the ignition and starter. I think those are predetermined. The output of the ISIS will be what ever the load demands.
For example: you run a wire from the switch on your brake pedal to master cell. Then connect your brake lights to the designated output of the rear powercell. easy.
Oh, and I believe you will need seperate signal,brake, back up lights for each. ISIS does not create these features from a single light input.
I'll need to take a look at the config for the package I have and see how it was configured to deal with the turn signals. Not sure if it just sends an "on" to the turn signal light and expects an integrated blink feature on the light, or if it sends a "blink" signal which would make ANY light attached to that input blink even without integrated blink.
Some reported ISIS needed resistors, don't know where I read that, but it may have been early on, as Ruth doesn't seem to have any problem with it. Good to know.
ISIS is intended to have programmable behavior. I get the impression that if you want the brake light to flash three times quickly then stay on, you could do it. Or, just light up. Same for turn signals, you program the "blink" rate by time on, time off instructions.
Maybe if an accelerometer feed was included, you could get the old school dyna stick thing where the brake lights blinked according the rate of deceleration. Some of us might remember that from the '80s.
LED is here to stay, I'm looking into it. Hella has some, sold on Amazon, at similar prices. I've found others, but not much cheaper, lots of vendors out there for old school restoration these day, including turn signals that turn on another ring sequentially, radiating out from the center. Something a guy with a '65 Galaxie might like, kinda like motel neon. They apparently have their own programming on board.
This stuff is gonna get cheaper. I don't know that we need more lumens, but more lights are coming. Will the last car made with incandescents please turn out the ...
I haven't had any problems with ISIS PWM outputs driving LEDs in my 2 ISIS vehicles. The configuration of the LED light units- their support circuitry is important however, "replacement" lights add pull-down resistors to condition the 12v draw.
ISIS also came out with enLighten module to control extensive LED features including color wheel type effects; mostly for high end coach and other lux markets ISIS is into ..
Re ISIS programmable behavior, yes technically any PWM output pattern can be programmed but ALL ISIS programming is proprietary so you have to design the behavior you want and the factory has to create a custom image for your Mastercell. Jay is willing to do custom programming within limits, but if it is not strategic or leveraging other customer requests or markets it may not get any attention.
Isis is programmed to make the lights blink. No integrated blinker required. Also, 10k resistor may or may not be required. Isis "leaks" a little to support the products trouble shooting features. Some lights are soooo sensitive that this leak causes the LEDs to glow. Others have a resistor already wired in and it isn't an issue.
So that settles that. One follow-on question from me then. . . .
Do the lights from FFR have an integrated blink function, and if so, how are the Isis GTMers dealing with that, since Isis expects something else?
That's a great term/way of stating the LED issue. Just choose 25W or 50W resisters with an impedance of 6 to 10ohms and you should be fine.
Ruth,
The GTM's tails have a parking light circuit(1) and brake light circuit(2) in the red lamp. The Amber/clear lamp has the turn signal/Flasher circuit(3) and the reverse light circuit(4). This setup will be the simplest to configure.
You do not have to set up the tail in this configuration. Take the C5 for example. There are four red lamps and separate reverse lamps. The parking lights, brake lights and turn signal/flasher are integrated into the set of (three pole light) lamps. IIRC the turn signal/flasher overrides the parking lights when the flasher or turn signal is activated. So the lamps have two circuits and the input is; brake light on circuit #1 and parking light, turn/flasher on the other circuit.
If your LED lamps contain two light circuits and you wish to run four of them, you can check with Jay to ensure the ISIS can be programmed to function in is this configuration and run separate reverse lamps.
HTHs
I really have no idea what you are trying to get at there.
Let's keep this simple. The GTM lights, the lights My Race Shop sells, and probably somewhere around 99% of the tail lights you find "out there" are simple lights. You put 12V to them and they light up. Simple as that. No onboard blinkers or logic circuits or whatever. You hook up a ground and a positive and it comes on. Some, like the ones I have in the SEMA car have a parking light lead that essentially has a resistor to dim the red/yellow lights for tail/parking/corner marker function, but as far as blinker functions, those are rarely within the lights themselves. If you want the lights that have the dimmed function, just look for tail-brake designations on the literature.
Let's keep this simple. The GTM lights, the lights My Race Shop sells, and probably somewhere around 99% of the tail lights you find "out there" are simple lights. You put 12V to them and they light up. Simple as that.
I really have no idea what you are trying to get at there.
Let's keep this simple. The GTM lights, the lights sells, and probably somewhere around 99% of the tail lights you find "out there" are simple lights. You put 12V to them and they light up. Simple as that. No onboard blinkers or logic circuits or whatever. You hook up a ground and a positive and it comes on. Some, like the ones I have in the SEMA car have a parking light lead that essentially has a resistor to dim the red/yellow leds lights for tail/parking/corner marker function, but as far as blinker functions, those are rarely within the lights themselves. If you want the lights that have the dimmed function, just look for tail-brake designations on the literature.
Hello
I need led tail lights. Looking for a reliable source to purchase them. Can you guide me?
Last edited by Craiggonzalez; 01-15-2013 at 06:14 AM..
Hello
I need led tail lights. Looking for a reliable source to purchase them. Can you guide me?
Tail lights are really quite a funny thing. I have quite a few options on the shelf, but not sure if quantities are still available. In other words, I have a set of these and a set of those, but I haven't restocked tail lights in a couple years so not sure if I will have what you want, in the numbers you need. PM me and I will contact you on the phone and maybe we can help each other out.
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