Thought it best to start a thread specifically about the progress and the modifications being made to install a split radiator system in the front of my GTM. Feel free to chime in with suggestions, comments, etc and I will try and be as detailed as possible with the modifications so that if everything works out the way that I am planning it will, fellow builders will have a good understanding to either copy or deviate from what I have done.
Please this is specifically about a front split system and not about installing radiators anywhere else on the car.
After the initial mockup I was able to determine where there was room to mount each radiator with enough clearance between the tire and the radiator itself. I did look at similar setups on production cars and was surprised how little clearance they were running between the tire and the radiator protection.
As with most modifications like this there is going to be a little trial and error.
The maximum available space was 18” tall x 15” wide which when doubled has a little larger surface area as the original Corvette unit.
I ended up purchasing this radiator knowing that the top inlet would need to be resized and moved while the cap will be removed in order to give enough clearance behind the headlight bucket.
The radiator is;
The radiator is just sitting in place to give me an idea of what is going to be in the way.
The top fill tube will need to be moved to clear the back of the headlights and it looks like the radiator will need to be angled back a little as well due to the headlights.
Nothing is easy!
I am going to have a bit of a think about the best way around this.
Then obvious solution is to just angle the radiator back to clear the back of the headlight connector, but……
Chek this out, I saw your photo chop, looks good by the way.
Something to consider, I think the nose vents look nice.
I was wondering how you would run the hose. You could weld a 90* bend.
The real problem I am trying to map out is opening of the hood, I don't think you could make all the slack of the hose go away as you close the hood??
Are you going with a fixed nose like sk7500?
What about just bagging that idea, and shift twards relocating things that consume the area behind the stock radiator? Then framing in a spot there.
Well, if your like me the more people think I can't do it, the more determined I will be.
Just turn the radiator around so the plumbing is on the tire side. Plenty of room on the top and bottom since the tire is round and your radiator is a flat plane!
Chek this out, I saw your photo chop, looks good by the way.
Something to consider, I think the nose vents look nice.
I was wondering how you would run the hose. You could weld a 90* bend.
The real problem I am trying to map out is opening of the hood, I don't think you could make all the slack of the hose go away as you close the hood??
Are you going with a fixed nose like sk7500?
What about just bagging that idea, and shift twards relocating things that consume the area behind the stock radiator? Then framing in a spot there.
Well, if your like me the more people think I can't do it, the more determined I will be.
The current plan is to run a fixed nose with something like a conventional hood.
I don’t want to share the final configuration until I have a couple more issues resolved.
Just turn the radiator around so the plumbing is on the tire side. Plenty of room on the top and bottom since the tire is round and your radiator is a flat plane!
Crash,
While that helps with the top it does not with the bottom hose, but you bring up a good point about there being more clearance at the top due to the curvature of the wheel well. The top facing into the wheel well and against the frame and the bottom facing forward may be the cleanest solution.
It will not be hard to make the radiator guard curved to match the wheel somewhat.
I still need to play around a little this week if I have time, but relocating and resizing the ins and outs is not an issue as I have a TIG set up in my garage and enough ally stock to completely replace the tanks if I need to.
While that helps with the top it does not with the bottom hose, but you bring up a good point about there being more clearance at the top due to the curvature of the wheel well. The top facing into the wheel well and against the frame and the bottom facing forward may be the cleanest solution.
It will not be hard to make the radiator guard curved to match the wheel somewhat.
I still need to play around a little this week if I have time, but relocating and resizing the ins and outs is not an issue as I have a TIG set up in my garage and enough ally stock to completely replace the tanks if I need to.
Be careful as many radiator manufacturers use a liquid epoxy to seal the tubes to the tanks. You can tell by looking in by the tubes. It is cheaper to do it this way as opposed to brazing the tubes in, but it also makes it darn near impossible to weld on the radiator without ruining it. I have had a skilled welder replace inlets/outlets with epoxied tanks, but it is always iffy as to whether they are going to work without failure. Just an FYI.
The unit that I have is fully TIG'd so no issues there.
Well no issues if I am able to scare all the pigeons out of my shed ;-)
I don't mean to be combative, but I have never seen a fully TIGed radiator before. Usually the tube plates are epoxied or brazed onto the tubes after the tanks are welded on. Sometimes the brazed end plates are covered in epoxy to make double sure there are no leaks or to repair a leaky brazed radiator. Look very carefully where the tubes contact the end plates to make sure there is no epoxy. Even if they are brazed, the filler material will likely melt at considerably lower temp than the aluminum base metal, so BE CAREFUL.
Just as a side note, if each tube was TIGed to the end plates that radiator of yours would be hundreds, if not thousands of $$. That's just not how they are made...that I have ever seen.
I don't mean to be combative, but I have never seen a fully TIGed radiator before. Usually the tube plates are epoxied or brazed onto the tubes after the tanks are welded on. Sometimes the brazed end plates are covered in epoxy to make double sure there are no leaks or to repair a leaky brazed radiator. Look very carefully where the tubes contact the end plates to make sure there is no epoxy. Even if they are brazed, the filler material will likely melt at considerably lower temp than the aluminum base metal, so BE CAREFUL.
Just as a side note, if each tube was TIGed to the end plates that radiator of yours would be hundreds, if not thousands of $$. That's just not how they are made...that I have ever seen.
Mike, you made an appropriate comment.
The tanks are welded to the core end plates and the core to end plates show no signs of epoxy.
I will now keep heat transfer in mind while performing the tank mods and if I screw it up then I will be up for a set of custom made units. If it all works out and after the mods the unit passed a pressure test, then I have saved myself $1k+.
I spent some time yesterday working on brackets etc for mounting the split radiators. Still waiting on some bits and pieces to fabricate the ins and outs on the radiators themselves but will wait until I have them both mounted to finalize the routing for the plumbing.
The frame is ½” square carbon steel tubing and the tabs are 1/8” which still needs the chassis mounting tabs installed and the whole thing made pretty.
I will post additional photos showing how the whole assembly attaches to the GTM chassis and supports with the body when I get that done.
The radiator was an aftermarket 3 row for a Honda Civic Del Sol and the condenser is for the same.
I am still looking for a wheel debris shield that I am happy with to be used on the back side of radiator.
Snuck a couple of hours in the shed today and was able to make progress on the fabrication of the radiator mount. It is starting to look the part and I have been able to maintain clearances from the front wheel and the headlight connectors. The next challenge is mounting the condenser but I have verified that it does fit… just.
I'm surprised how square you are able to keep the radiator...I figured it would have to be angled back and rotated somewhat to clear the bodywork. Looks great!
dave
__________________
MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
GTM #304 Powered by Lingenfelter
Twin Turbo Z
350Z Roadster
Please pardon this dumb ass question, but looking at the below photo, how do you keep the front tires from throwing all kinds of trash into the rad's, and keep air flowing at the same time
I'm surprised how square you are able to keep the radiator...I figured it would have to be angled back and rotated somewhat to clear the bodywork. Looks great!
dave
The only way to get more radiator surface area with the current shape of the GTM nose is to start modifying the chassis and or the aluminum paneling. I was quite surprised by this when I tried different shapes/positions while mocking up. Now that does not mean that there is not a better way to do this.
Please pardon this dumb ass question, but looking at the below photo, how do you keep the front tires from throwing all kinds of trash into the rad's, and keep air flowing at the same time
The intension is to make my own louvers from stainless steel sheet to look very similar to the ones from this Ferrari 360 I believe.
My understanding is that it comes down to the angle of any road debris following the rotation of the tire. So in theory you can have louvers that are @ 90 deg to the radiator and as long as there is more louver width than gap between them and they are below the trajectory of debris. Mine will be set to about 15 to 30 deg on the upper part of the louver as an extra precaution and there will be some mesh to help with any debris that manages to bounce its way in.
Very little restriction but it can still all end in tears…
A small step forward today.
Passenger side radiator TIG'd together, (man I am out of practice with this welder) and have started on the driver’s side.
I think that I have the plumbing configuration sorted out and in the process realized that I have the tunnel tubes back to front. Correct as per the manual but not correct as per pump flow. I have 1 1/4" to the passenger side and 1 1/2" to the center of the tunnel. So I am debating if this actually makes a difference but will most likely nut up and take the hour or two to swap them.
The coolant flow will be coming into the bottom of both radiators and out the top.
Between getting rid of the original stainless hoses and using an engine bay header tank, getting the battery in and out is not too much of a struggle.
Currently looking for a Houston AC guy who can make up custom AC hoses for my condensers.
Radiators welded up, (starting to get the hang of TIG welding again) and piping run. I hope to get the header tank installed and radiator tubes beaded tomorrow so that I can start the engine to see if I have any leaks and if there is any difference in temps.
Once I know that there are no leaks I will frame out the trunk, mount the AC condensers and fans then tidy up the battery area.
Then the body mods start in earnest
Ran the car around the block a couple of times this afternoon with only one small leak found.
Car temp ran about where it normally does but I don’t have the hood, ducting or fans set up yet so it is a little soon to tell if there is going to be any benefit or issues. The header tank set up made removing the air from the system very easy and I don’t believe that I had any vapor locks in the plumbing as all seemed to be getting varying degrees of warm.
Next is to fix my leak, do a little tidying up and make the debris guards between the radiator and the front wheels.
All in all a positive move forward today.
Just a quick video of the first test drive with the split radiators.
I will tidy up the plumbing this weekend and install the wheel guards if the material is delivered in time.
Once the hood is mounted, secured and modified the radiators will be securly braced and connected to ducting from the front of the car. GTM - YouTube
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