Battle of the Superkit cars 2012? 1.5 mile top speed Northeast event

[T70MK3B]

Was good to have met Jim and John at the land speed racing meeting friday night.
We had a good meal and chatted for awhile at a dinner down the street from the race shop.
I hope it was a worth while trip for them as there were between 150 and 200 land speed racers in attendance at Street Rod Steve's shop in CT.
I had a good time and got to see most of last years east coast land speed racing events in the slide show then they fired up a few of the race cars inside
Mark

[R1Jester]

Pittsman - Is that Snelten's viper you are playing around with?

[Stage7]

I wish I could have made the event. I will give you guys a call to catch up this week.

[T70MK3B]

Just an update.
The LTA has announced the cost for the July event $250 for 3 days of racing and for the September event $200 for 2 days of racing.

Now all I need to do is find some $ to register as I have put a deposit on a steel monoque GT40 so back into the poor house again.

Regards,
Mark

[fuzzyjk]

Very cool, you did it.

[kabacj]

That's a very cool car Mark.

After seeing the cars that are allowed to go 200 and hearing the push back on the what the LTA think is needed for the GTM, i am kind of surprised. I don't need to do any calculations to know that cold welds on 2 inch pipe in a 60s muscle car with a cage that is poorly designed will not hold up as well as good welds on 1.5 095 tubes in the GTM with the stock cage.

I am going to make a trip up to CT to visit Steve V in April / May to see if he is happy with the changes I have made to the roll cage.

If its good enough for NASA and SCCA where you actually are likely to hit stuff I cant understand why its not good enough for the LTA .. we will see.

John

[JCHRacer]

What kind of push back? Was it just the tube diameter or did they have other comments. I am interested to hear what comes of this and whether you are successfull in getting any concessions. Can you share what mods you made to the frame to hopefully make it acceptable?

[crash]

Originally Posted by kabacj

If its good enough for NASA and SCCA where you actually are likely to hit stuff I cant understand why its not good enough for the LTA .. we will see.

John

Just for clarification, the stock GTM frame has a couple of areas that DO NOT meet the SCCA or NASA general requirements for cage safety as delivered from FFR. Minor changes, for the most part, having to do with the main hoop and the rear kickers, but they DO have to be addressed to actually qualify to do anything more than a track day.

Also, doesn't look like I will be making it to the other side of the country this year for this event as we are awaiting a death in the family. She's held on a long time, but is asking for it to be her time to go, so we are figuring she won't last through this year. My kids great grand mother. She's 96. Just glad my kids got to know her before she got too frail.

[kabacj]

Originally Posted by JCHRacer

What kind of push back? Was it just the tube diameter or did they have other comments. I am interested to hear what comes of this and whether you are successfull in getting any concessions. Can you share what mods you made to the frame to hopefully make it acceptable?

Well when we went to the LTA Their site meeting it was mostly hot rod/ old car guys and motorcycle guys. The safety rules for bikes are easy and straightforward. Cars, not really.

The roll cage design requires approval by the safety director. He is a retired UPS manager. A serious car guy for sure, but not an engineer. So that part is very subjective.


Then comes the tubing.

Minimum requirements for cage type roll structure in all classes that are fun are QUOTE 1 5/8” o.d. x .120” nominal wall thickness steel tubing, securely mounted, gusseted and braced within 5” of the top of the roll cage structure. All cage structures must be designed to protect the driver from any angle including the bottom. Any vehicle in classes where the existing record exceeds 175 MPH must use the larger tube minimum requirements. END QUOTE

So by the rules even with a 6 point fully triangulated frame in the GTM you don't qualify.

The silly thing is these rules are made for guys who have hundreds of lbs of ballast in their car for running on the salt. And there is no allowance for the weight of the car.

I have been told however that the ECTA East Coast Timing Association are much more reasonable with their rules. They are running events below.

April 28-29 Hot Rod Magazine Top Speed Challenge
June 2-3 (Sponsor to be announced)
July 7-8 (Sponsor to be announced)
Sept 29-30 Throttle Nation Top Speed Challenge

I am already booked to bring the family on vacation to Maine so either they allow me to try to go 200 or I go for the Sept event in Ohio.

I don't have good pictures of the frame mods so far. Ill post them when the body comes off to put the motor in for a test fit the first week of March. Ill let you know what happens with Steve V the tech inspector and the Maine Event.

I am also interested in what you think of my mods so far.

John

[T70MK3B]

John,
The ECTA and the LTA use basically the same rulebook
Steve was responsible for running a fleet maintanace facillity.

Most of the time the inspectors are just regular racers who are helping out.
They are not welders or machinists or enginers, They may be a jack of all trades or a mechanic but so far they have not used any gauges to inspect my car.

Yes, I was nervous going through inspection every time as you never know what an inspector is going to look for.

But so far they have been very concerned about seat belts(date and mounting points) , restraints(arm and door net), firesystems(date of inspection and nozzle placement),roll cage padding(the expensive and hard stuff), and personal safety gear(helmet SA2005/SA2010,fire suit,gloves,headsock,and boots) and the parachute(leave it unpacked) and the studs and lug nuts.

Also remember to have only water in the cooling system and the oil filter needs to be safety wired as one moron did not tighten it once.

Crash,
Sorry to hear about your Grand Mother hopefuly she passes peacefully.
And it is great that your kids know her.

Jim,
I could not pass it up as it is a steel monocue chassis with many original parts

Regards,
Mark

[crash]

If you are going to other events, I might suggest going to the one with the most leanient rules first. Get it passed by that sanctioning body, and then it is usually easier to get the car passed for another sanctioning body. Many orginazations allow crossover specifically if a car meets another bodies rules. They want you coming to THEIR events as well as or even instead of the "other guys", so they usually are pretty accepting of the cars built for the other events.

Just a thought.

[JCHRacer]

Originally Posted by crash

If you are going to other events, I might suggest going to the one with the most leanient rules first. Get it passed by that sanctioning body, and then it is usually easier to get the car passed for another sanctioning body. Many orginazations allow crossover specifically if a car meets another bodies rules. They want you coming to THEIR events as well as or even instead of the "other guys", so they usually are pretty accepting of the cars built for the other events.

Just a thought.

That there is some good advice!

[Bill Shaw]

We rented the airstrip at Weymouth for a special event a few years back.

South Weymouth NAS - 11/17/08

Weymouth is NLA, but InControl has other locations. Maybe they have something that will work?

InControl Car Clinics

[kabacj]

Hey Mark,

Yep LTA and ECTA use the same rulebook but different interpretations.

I know a GTM ran with the ECTA at maxton up to 175 in was basically street trim. They were very cool about the whole deal. I don't fault Steve as he is just doing his best and a volunteer. As we discussed in CT, the Maine event organizers are just looking to keep the event safe. Nothing wrong with that.

I do my best to build the GTM to the LTA rules and bring it up to Steve to have him give it a once over. If I cant make it pass then Ohio here we come.

If all else fails we can also always rent an airstrip as Bill Shaw suggests. Its just so much easier to show up at an organized event.

Mark what size and thickness roll cage does the coupe have?

John

[T70MK3B]

John,
Just an update for you as Steve is at both events.

And Crash is right get your car safety checked at one track then it is easier at the next.
And if you start with 175 the rules are easier than going for the 200 the first time out.
That and safety is more relaxed for the lower speeds.
And having the right info in the log book.

They have limited me to 175 due to no windhield tie down straps.
And yes, the weather stripping around the winshield comes out at 180 !!
When they safety tech you for 175 the fastest you can run is 185 as they give you a 10MPH window. That and you will need to do all of the qualifing runs at 125/150/175 then the "200"

On the rollcage my door bar is .120x1-3/4" they see that and the rest is coverd in cheap padding.
Mark

[T70MK3B]

John,
Another thing to mention is that you can get the car safety checked for 175 and then later the same day you can have it re-inspected for a higher speed.
Most likely you would have a different pair of inspectors each time.
Yes, they check the car with 2 inspectors at Loring as they are training new inspectors.
I would not be suprized to see the inspections in Ohio be the same as they will also need to have new inspectors.
If you so desire you can become an inspector.
When I was in Maxton my car was previously inspected for 175 at Loring and 1 inspector gave it a quick once over for the 175 check.

Just remember the Loring motto
Be safe, have fun, and drive really fast.

Mark

[kabacj]

Yep. I have been thinking a lot about how we are going to get this done.

I am still going to go up to Steves shop to try to get his blessing on the frame.

Ill go up to Maine and get inspected for 175 but have all the kit for 200+

If the car is ready for it I can keep ratcheting up my speed and getting inspected for the next level.

I am with you. This is supposed to be fun and nobody should get hurt.

Ill be sure to call you before my trip to CT to make sure I have covered all the bases.

John

[T70MK3B]

John,
Where you have brought up the cage requirements I hope he will bless it.

You can reach me around feeding times as I am either at work or sleeping or working in the shop at home , Yes, I have no life other than cars oh yeah and a little family time.
Or as my wife says very little family time.

When he asks what class you are going to run in I would say MS
That class is modified sports.
There only needs to be 50 of that model produced compared to 500 for the production classes.
It is a little tougher competition but you have the car for it.

Mark

[Stage7]

Good luck w/Steve.

Too bad we are so far East: FAQ

Wouldn't have been a 2nd thought with requirements and they are running a 1.5mile event in June.

[T70MK3B]

Any updates on dealing with the ECTA on requirements?

Is anyone planning on going to the fall event??
As I will not be going to the summer event as Road America is having a gathering of the Lola T70 the weekend of July14th.

Mark

[fuzzyjk]

I am shooting to be there.

[kabacj]

I took the week off to work on my car. I am working on the cage requirements as we speak. I still plan to be at the July event as I will be on vacation in Maine anyway. I convinced the wife and kids that we just take a slight detour to limestone Maine on or way to Acadia National park.

As usual with this build i am still waiting for major parts. This time its my motor. Only a month late. The block and heads are built and were done on time, just need to drop the intake on. That should be ready in a week or so then add tuning and shipping and that puts me near May 1 for delivery.

I am going to do my best to have the car ready for July but its really pushing it. The fall event is much more reasonable and likely.

Maybe ill need to enter a motorcycle class. Its funny you can just take a bike out of the showroom, spend an hour on prep and you are ready to race.

John

[crash]

Originally Posted by kabacj

Its funny you can just take a bike out of the showroom, spend an hour on prep and you are ready to race.

John

Yep. Funny indeed. Kinda like here in The Peoples Republic of California where it is not legal to have a rifle with a pistol grip, yet you can buy an actual pistol no problem at all!! But I digress.

I'm thinking that insurance and lawyers have more to do with the requirement differences than anything else.

Kinda like the neck brace requirements. They just changed the rule in our sanctioning body, NASA. They now require an FIA certified neck brace. So the one I bought two years ago that is only SFI certified no longer qualifies and I must go out and buy a new one if I want to continue to compete. Seems it wasn't too long ago that many MANY people walked away from horrendous crashes unhurt with NO NECK BRACE AT ALL. Yet now not only is having a neck brace not good enough, but it must be certified by a ridiculously expensive body. IMHO, the right thing to do would be to just let the old devices time out and require any new devices to meet the requirement...you know, like they do with vehicle roll cages and such? But NO, the lawyers say other wise!

OK. That rant is done!

[T70MK3B]

John,
Keep me posted on when you will be going through Maine as I should be going to Road America for the Can Am races instead of landspeed racing as I have not changed anything on the old coupe so I am still limited to 175 or no more than 185....
Looking forward to seeing the Lolas and GT40s.
I am telling the wife that it is research for the next 2 builds...

Crash,
You are soo right in the fact that not that long ago all of this safety equipment did not exist and now all of us need it..
Next we will need AIR BAGS!!!
I know I know shut up Mark do not give them any ideas!!!!!!

Mark

[T70MK3B]

Sorry to dig up an old thread but the Fall Harvest event for Land Speed racing will be Labor day weekend at the track in Limstone Me.
Is anyone else going?????
Regards,
Mark

[kabacj]

Hey Mark,

Great to hear from you.

Sadly I just got my motor a week ago. Its in the car, however I still have lots of plumbing and wiring to do in order to make it speed trial ready.

Funny how building these cars goes. With all the delays from parts, transaxles etc my build is going to take exactly 2x as long as I planned.

On the good side ill be ready for the Maine Event in July and the fall harvest event next year.

I am looking fwd to it.

John

[fuzzyjk]

Welcome to the club, I too will be twice as long as first thought. Oh well, better done right then rushed.

Mark, how's your new project going?

[sk7500]

I easily get in at least 20 hours per week, and I'm at 3.5 times as long as I told my partner it would take. Not because of the car. I just can't get the loose nut behind the steering wheel to leave well enough alone!!

[T70MK3B]

Originally Posted by fuzzyjk

Welcome to the club, I too will be twice as long as first thought. Oh well, better done right then rushed.

Mark, how's your new project going?

Jim,
The GT40 project will be 3 years before I can start it
But I could not pass up the opportunity.

Good to hear that both of you are having progress on the GTM's.
Just remember slow progress is better than none at all.

I will be at Loring for the races but will leave my car at home untill I can up the HP by about 100 as that may be enough for the 200 club.....
Regards,
Mark

[fuzzyjk]

Originally Posted by T70MK3B

Jim,
The GT40 project will be 3 years before I can start it
But I could not pass up the opportunity.

Good to hear that both of you are having progress on the GTM's.
Just remember slow progress is better than none at all.

I will be at Loring for the races but will leave my car at home untill I can up the HP by about 100 as that may be enough for the 200 club.....
Regards,
Mark

Spray it!! 125 shot should get you there. And on the cheap too.