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Old 03-23-2011, 02:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Electronic Bump Shifter/Paddles on Mendeola

Hey guys...

So quick question... does anyone here know what the Manual Transmission Conversion kit is all about on the Mendeola website. It looks as if one could take their new transaxle coming out and put a paddle shifter on it which would be electronically controlled. This I would assume would be very similar to a true paddle shifting car if the speed of the shifts are quick and other than the clutch is still manually (foot) controlled unlike a Ferrari for instance which is electronically controlled.

1. Do I understanding this concept correctly in how it works?

2. Any thoughts on how smooth or hard the shift would be?

3. I'm sure this would be of great help for track use but could this application be used on the road without any major draw-backs?

4. Last question... is it worth the money? What I mean by this, the Mendeola SDR-5 which the least expensive solution that can handle the 500hp that I would like to run in the GTM is already $13,200 before shipping. By adding this option I would be well into $16K for a tranny? I would assume and I could be wrong... but wouldn't there be other transaxles to look at in this price range?

Of course I plan on calling Mendeola to get specific info but before I get there, I would like some input from guys here if possible.

Thanks in advance.

Mike





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Old 03-23-2011, 02:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Dont know about the first part of your question but $13,200 is high if all you want is a trans that can hold 500hp. The trans FFR offers will hold that and its around 8k. I know guys running 500hp on stock G50 Trans. I'm one of them. It really depends on what you want to do with the car. HTH
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Dont know about the first part of your question but $13,200 is high if all you want is a trans that can hold 500hp. The trans FFR offers will hold that and its around 8k. I know guys running 500hp on stock G50 Trans. I'm one of them. It really depends on what you want to do with the car. HTH
Kris...

Perhaps I'm not looking in the right area... but their MD5-R has a loading rating of 375HP & 320TQ for $9,599. The very next model up is the S5-R which shows numbers at 650HP & 600TQ at a price of $12,999. Is there a better price when mentioning FFR?

I plan on using the GTM for 90% road and 10% HPDE's... I've always been told to get a tranny and clutch that's rated above the max HP of engine and never below if you want a stable and long lasting tranny. Doing that in my last Z06 gave me great track reliability which is what I would to do again.

The G50 option is still very much in my consideration.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I believe you may have some misconceptions about a few things. It would really be best if you contacted Mendeola directly about your plans.

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Old 03-23-2011, 02:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I believe you may have some misconceptions about a few things. It would really be best if you contacted Mendeola directly about your plans.

619-710-8800 ex 110
I agree. It may be me that has my numbers off. The idea of going above the rated hp is a Very good one. Sorry, kinda slung my response from the hip.

When I purchased my trans I made a call to one of the trans guys on here and told him what I was going to do with the car and about my warmed over LS6(It will never see a drag strip,just a romping on the road every now and again). The engine with a cold air,custom tune, cam, bumped compression should be around 425 to the ground which translates to close to 500hp flywheel. I was told that it would hold it all day. BUT, my car is not on the road and if you can budget a better trans then by all means play on the safe side and get one that is rated for the power that you plan to make.

BTW, when you say 500hp. Is that flywheel or rwhp?
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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BTW- For those that haven't seen that Corvette that is in the catalog, it is a MID-ENGINED V8 Corvette that is pretty interesting to look at.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Really? 500HP on a stock, unmodified G50? Is it a five speed or six? I thought that a stock G50 can only handle 350hp max. Anymore that that and you'll turn your trans to dust. According to various 911 forums i've been to that is..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Mangrum View Post
Dont know about the first part of your question but $13,200 is high if all you want is a trans that can hold 500hp. The trans FFR offers will hold that and its around 8k. I know guys running 500hp on stock G50 Trans. I'm one of them. It really depends on what you want to do with the car. HTH
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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5 Speed. Guess we'll find out when I put these 345's on the back. I hope your wrong.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Really? 500HP on a stock, unmodified G50? Is it a five speed or six? I thought that a stock G50 can only handle 350hp max. Anymore that that and you'll turn your trans to dust. According to various 911 forums i've been to that is..
It really all depends upon how hard you drive it. I could put a Porsche box rated for 135 HP behind a 500+ HP V8 and drive it around for YEARS...or I could break it in the first 30 seconds. I happen to think that it wouldn't be much fun making this combo live, but that's just me. As the OP stated, always going bigger than you think is required on the drivetrain is probably the best recommendation. Usually the only penalties you will be faced with are a bit of $$ and a bit of weight. Going too small penalizes you with A LOT of $$$...and being stuck by the side of the road/track!
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Good example of the benefits of oversizing the transaxle is the Mendeola S5 we have been running in the PDG GTM. I literally TRIED to explode that thing when we first put it in the car. Another one of the drivers did too. While the PDG GTM has just less than 400 HP, we really beat the heck out of that transaxle. To my amazement, when we cracked the case open after the initial abuse combined with about 20 hours of run time, there was VERY little wrong with the transaxle. A couple of the dogs on one of the sliders were rounded off, but no major chunks and nothing failing or looking like it was distressed. We changed the slider, put the rear cover back on, refilled it, and ran it for another 15 hours before taking in to Mendeola to have everything checked out. All was good though and with about 100 hours of all out racing hours on it last season, (that equates to roughly 10,000 miles!) there were ZERO issues with it.

As we have said before, the strength of the over sized Mendeola gave us, as drivers, the confidence to "shift" the gears instead of "selecting" the gears as we had to do with the overstressed Porsche boxes.

I don't think Richard will ever go back on the PDG GTM to the G50, and I am preparing a new engine and tire package to try and see if I can actually get an S5 to explode. 14.5 inch rear race slicks!
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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to follow up on crash's post

I'm not saying anything about Mendeola, but some companies do inflate their load rating numbers which is even more of a reason to go slightly bigger rather than small. I have to completely agree with Crash that it becomes a reliability to cost ratio (with weight as a third factor). Going over-kill is unnecessary but when my Z06 had a dual McLeod clutch, my 600 hp motor never slipped. yes that clutch is rated for somewhere over 1000hp but the cost was minimal over their 700 hp rated clutch which made the decision very easy.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Mangrum View Post
I agree. It may be me that has my numbers off. The idea of going above the rated hp is a Very good one. Sorry, kinda slung my response from the hip.

When I purchased my trans I made a call to one of the trans guys on here and told him what I was going to do with the car and about my warmed over LS6(It will never see a drag strip,just a romping on the road every now and again). The engine with a cold air,custom tune, cam, bumped compression should be around 425 to the ground which translates to close to 500hp flywheel. I was told that it would hold it all day. BUT, my car is not on the road and if you can budget a better trans then by all means play on the safe side and get one that is rated for the power that you plan to make.

BTW, when you say 500hp. Is that flywheel or rwhp?
Kris,
So 15% the expected loss in HP for a G50?
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Just talked to Ian at Mendeola

Well Guys...

I have to say that with my limited exposure with Mendeola, I am very impressed after speaking to Ian. He gave me a lot of good info and didn't rush my call at all. Very refreshing to get that kind of support!!!

Here is what I learned... the electronic shifting is been tested to work well with the S5-R transaxle which is a sequential tranny and not really suited for the street. The electronic shifting will work with the SDR-5 but they are still in the process of testing and refining that option.

You guys were right about a $8500 option, which is their SDR-5 Stage I rated for 500hp and is designed to work well with the E-Rod engine. It's listed on their site a little higher but purchasing via FFR should get the price down a little. It's still in the $12K if the build calls for all the options such as coolers, starter, clutch, etc.

This answers a few questions for me... the paddle shifting is possibly an option in the near future and it will come in several thousands less than my original $16K estimate.

Mike
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Kris,
So 15% the expected loss in HP for a G50?
I'm just guessing around 15%. Could be off? I have no data to back one way or the other.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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If you are talking about driving around street mostly and racing from time to time when someone pulls up and revvs up there mustang for a lineup, I can promise you a stock g5003 transmission will hold more than 500 HP in this 2300 lb GTM !!!
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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If you are talking about driving around street mostly and racing from time to time when someone pulls up and revvs up there mustang for a lineup, I can promise you a stock g5003 transmission will hold more than 500 HP in this 2300 lb GTM !!!
How would you know, your the joker running the puny 5.3.

Oh wait, now I remember, 408 on 12psi, OK maybe you have 400 crank.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If production car-like paddle shifting is what you are looking for, based on previous posts from others, I think you will be disappointed with the Mastershift option. In addition to still needing a manually operated clutch, the integration in the past has proven to be less than stellar.

I'd caution you on making paddle-shifting a "must have" for your build. I'd make manual shifting your going-in position, and keep researching until you are CERTAIN there is another viable option.
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Well I do think that there are two separate considerations with the paddle shifting option.

One is whether I would be happy with a change in the traditional shifting to a electronic paddle style... I personally think it would give the car more of a modern look and feel and of course it would be different from the norm.

A second issues whether the system is proven and works as it should. Clearly there seems to be testing still going on and I would only expect that some or all of the issues will get worked out. I really like the fact that it's very user defined and had the ability for shifting speeds adjustments among many other settings.

Either way, I really appreciate everyone's input. I would love to hear from someone that is using this system with a Mendeola transaxle.
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Just to expand. . . .

As I recall, the sequence on the Mastershift is a little different that what I expected. I think you preselect the gear, and then when you are ready to shift you press the clutch pedal and the electronics perform the shift.

If I recall correctly, Gary Cheney had it in his first GTM and then DIDN'T use it in his second GTM. I also think he's going with traditional shifting in his 3rd GTM as well.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:26 AM   #20 (permalink)
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From what I remember JimO and company had a heck of a time trying to get the Mastershift unit to work, and they ended up scrapping it. Shane has some experience with it too, I think, or at least insight into why it's tough to make work.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:34 AM   #21 (permalink)
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If a sequential shift is what people are after, why not just use a sequential shifting trans from a modern day Porsche 911? If i remember correctly, they are cheaper than a regular G50 too because they are more common.
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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If a sequential shift is what people are after, why not just use a sequential shifting trans from a modern day Porsche 911? If i remember correctly, they are cheaper than a regular G50 too because they are more common.
Do they mount the same as the G50? Length and all?
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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If a sequential shift is what people are after, why not just use a sequential shifting trans from a modern day Porsche 911? If i remember correctly, they are cheaper than a regular G50 too because they are more common.
And can they handle 500hp?
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I think sequential shifting is much more complicated than just selecting a Porsche sequential box. There's all sorts of computerized coordination between engine and transmission, not to mention the computer activated clutch. Last time someone mentioned this, I think the quote for the trans and all necessary equipment minus engine was $25k.

I too was casually interested in this in the beginning but the more I looked into it, the more I realized that there was nothing viable (cost, performance, reliability) out there.
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think sequential shifting is much more complicated than just selecting a Porsche sequential box. There's all sorts of computerized coordination between engine and transmission, not to mention the computer activated clutch. Last time someone mentioned this, I think the quote for the trans and all necessary equipment minus engine was $25k.

I too was casually interested in this in the beginning but the more I looked into it, the more I realized that there was nothing viable (cost, performance, reliability) out there.
I agree with you totally, except for the cost part. I think it would be more like $40-50K to do it right.
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