Is this what we are talking about? I tried to fix them both by re-working the radius and extending the hood aft to match up better with the A pillar to help hide the door gap.
Wow.... this build just gets more amazing with every new update. If the GT Malan is worth 100k + (have they sold ANY??)), this one will be worth much more.
LS Man, can you share what it took to integrate the electronics programming wise? Was there any need for a Tech2, or was it more of a physical install centric undertaking with you taking every component from the c6 with the harnesses?
For you ISIS users, could we not use the C6 gauge/HUD setup or any other electronics from the vette?
As I understand it, ISIS would just power the cluster/hud. Its getting all the other signals properly identified, mapped, and routed that's the real challenge. At least I think that's the case. I assume if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
As ArtGirl said, in order to use all of the 'Vette components, you pretty much have to use all the 'Vette parts along with their mating "controllers"....which pretty much means you need to strip the entire electrical system out of a 'Vette and transplant it into the GTM....just as you see being done in this thread.
The HUD gets all its info from the 'Vette gauge cluster. The gauge cluster gets all its info from either the BCM or ECU, and the BCM and ECU have to be able to communicate with each other in order for all of the other systems of the car to work. So with all of this going on, there's not going to be much room or use for ISIS unless you really want to complicate things.....IMO.
__________________ Shane Vacek-VRaptor SpeedWorks, L.L.C. Supplier of Many Custom Products for the GTM! GTM's & SL-C's Custom Built for You! http://www.vraptorspeedworks.com
As ArtGirl said, in order to use all of the 'Vette components, you pretty much have to use all the 'Vette parts along with their mating "controllers"....which pretty much means you need to strip the entire electrical system out of a 'Vette and transplant it into the GTM....just as you see being done in this thread.
The HUD gets all its info from the 'Vette gauge cluster. The gauge cluster gets all its info from either the BCM or ECU, and the BCM and ECU have to be able to communicate with each other in order for all of the other systems of the car to work. So with all of this going on, there's not going to be much room or use for ISIS unless you really want to complicate things.....IMO.
There also is a MoTec version of what Isis does that sells for around $2k that you can program yourself through the use of a computer. IIRC, Isis requires that the "brains" of the unit be programed only by the company.
There also is a MoTec version of what Isis does that sells for around $2k that you can program yourself through the use of a computer. IIRC, Isis requires that the "brains" of the unit be programed only by the company.
Do you have a link to the Motec version? Any experience with it?
Have not used them personally, but the team I help out with occasionally that runs an LMP-1 car uses them. The higher end modules allow for some REALLY cool electrical management scenarios. Sounds like the PDM-15 is still pretty adaptable.
The ECUs I have used, and they are second to none, so I have to believe these units are on par with that.
Asking on behalf of the uninitiated. . . .which may just be me. . .
In the ECU world, what differentiates one from another?
While ECU stands for Electronic Control Unit, and could arguably be used just as correctly for the PDM units, Power Distibution Module I believe is what that stands for, traditionally in the automotive field, and particularly on the MoTec site, the term ECU refers to an Engine Control Unit.
Take a look at their catalog and you will see that they actually offer a few different electronic control units that do many different things.
Asking on behalf of the uninitiated. . . .which may just be me. . .
In the ECU world, what differentiates one from another?
Reread your post and now I get what you are asking. I think?
OK, so why is one brand of ECU better than another, right?
MoTec has excellent interfacing capabilities using 3D or more graphing, the capabilities as far as programable scenarios are there. Traction control is "on board". Data logging is "on board". Modular design so that ECU, PDM, Dash, Telemetry, and Data Logging all work together.
In short, there hasn't been a scenario I have come up with that couldn't be done with a MoTec system. Pricey though, and the dash units, in particular, I don't really care for.
Haltech is another one that I am considering along with EFI Tech. All good units. MoTec has the reputation for being pretty high on the best of the best list though. Bosch, of course, is up there too, but I have had ZERO exposure to how those operate.
There also is a MoTec version of what Isis does that sells for around $2k that you can program yourself through the use of a computer. IIRC, Isis requires that the "brains" of the unit be programed only by the company.
I spent some time with the Isis guys at SEMA this year and modifications to the program seem to be pretty simple. You tell them what changes you want made and they e-mail you the code which can then be loaded into the system via your laptop and a cable. Changes like this are free of charge. They did talk about offering something more flexible from this point of view, but did not mention timing.
Have not used them personally, but the team I help out with occasionally that runs an LMP-1 car uses them. The higher end modules allow for some REALLY cool electrical management scenarios. Sounds like the PDM-15 is still pretty adaptable.
The ECUs I have used, and they are second to none, so I have to believe these units are on par with that.
Thanks for the info. For some reason their site isn't working for me right now, but I will check it out tonight.
I haven't personally tuned on their ecu's but I have seen plenty in action and they were very impressive. That makes me very curious of their Isis equivalent product.
All modern production cars use a "multiplex" electrical system. This means that multiple signals are being sent down 1 circuit. A communication bus (1 or 2) wires are connected between all modules (ECM, BCM etc) allowing each module to "talk" to each other. Automotive protocols ( OBD, OBD-ll, Can bus) are the standards that all vehicles use to communicate internally, & externally (Scanner) This technology is what is allowing the increase of so many features that manufacturers have added in the last 15 years.
Lets take the passenger door as an example. Traditionally, we had wires that ran from the window switch to the window motor. That required pretty heavy wiring (14-16ga) to make the motor run. Bussed systems have a module mounted in the door, with constant power & ground wires. Simply connect this module to the buss, & all you need to do is send a signal to the module to make the motor work. The driver side window switch is now connected to the dash module or BCM (body control module), through the left door module, with very thin wiring (20-24ga). Because now there is no load on the switch, it just has to send a signal through the buss, that is sent to the rt. door module, & the door module is then doing the heavy work of running the motor. The wiring from the door module to the motor will still have to be heavier gauge, but because of the shorter distance, not as heavy as before.
So now the door module runs all the functions in the door - window, mirror, mirror heater, signal in mirror, interior lights, etc. - all controlled by the buss, (2 - 24 ga) wires. The door switch is now a module, that can control not only things in the door, but power seats, seat heaters etc without actually being wired to them. As you can see this opens up endless possibilities as to electrical features, & reduces the amount of wiring it takes to run the systems. The reality is that more systems & features keep getting added to the Buss, & the complexity of the vehicle keeps increasing. If somehow, just 1 of the modules shorts out, & kills the signal through the buss, the whole mess can grind to a halt!
This is how the Isis system works, & enables more & more options to be added. The Isis system uses mosfet transistors to replace traditional relays, which is becoming more prevalent, Motec also. The advantage here is that the electronics can monitor the load through the controlled outputs, & turn off that system if something shorts out, or lets say the window motor goes all the way down & stops, but you still have the switch on, the module will sense this & shut off power to the motor. This is how in some new cars, they have auto up windows, that can sense that there is something stuck in the window (small child's head), & stop or even reverse the motor automatically.
Isis will also add complications, as you try to integrate the factory systems, so there is no free lunch, as you can imagine.
I will try to give everybody more details about Steve & Franks build later on
Ok I'll ask........ What is the number that will make it worthwhile ?
Well, The first guy will need to send me his or her fuel pump/sender unit. Then we will have to put it together in a cad format. That should take a few extra few weeks. I would say 3 or 4 units depending on the mechanist . After that I'll probably keep a few in stock. The side mount corvette 1997 - 2003 1/2 would be a lot easier.
Happy Holidays, Ron
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GTM #66 LS3.2 525 HP Custom G-50/01 LSD kook exhaust system Aluminum Tanks
IIRC, Isis requires that the "brains" of the unit be programed only by the company.
And this is a bad thing? Jeesus, if the programming was open sourced can you imagine how many wanabe superhero programmers who buy it would try to modify it and end up frying their master or power cells?
I think they went a fine route - if you want changes you email Jay/Mike, describe them, they ship you the programmer and you ship it back. The only cost to you is shipping it back to them. They're prompt and take care of their customers.
And this is a bad thing? Jeesus, if the programming was open sourced can you imagine how many wanabe superhero programmers who buy it would try to modify it and end up frying their master or power cells?
I think they went a fine route - if you want changes you email Jay/Mike, describe them, they ship you the programmer and you ship it back. The only cost to you is shipping it back to them. They're prompt and take care of their customers.
I agree. The only thing that would make this process more efficient, IMHO, is if they were to incorporate the "brains" of the programmer into the design of the Master Cell. That way, there would be no need to ship a programmer back/forth between the customer and ISIS. All that would be necessary is a simple USB cable between your computer and the Master Cell.
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James - Impatiently Waiting To Build My Own GTM!
A Day off for Christmas Eve was good. That and the slave labor of my dad. Except for getting the right hose and powder coating the tubes I made to eliminate the dryer hoses, (as my wife puts it)we got the rear plumbing done. We need some more stuff for the front but we got the lay out. So while we wait for the rest of the world to open back up for business, Dad and I decided to put the body back on just for fun. Don't get too excited this is just trial fit number 3. The body will have to come back off for paint at least and probably a couple more times. But sometimes it's fun to see the forest and not just all the Christmas trees.
Love the exhaust exits on the back. Nice work.
Your making this hard for me to stay on a budget. Too much cool stuff.
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Mark 3 Fuel injected 347, AFR heads, Tremec trans, 3.73 four link rear, 315Rr 255Fr, Jeff Miller paint, Custom interior by Armondo\'s.
And this is a bad thing? Jeesus, if the programming was open sourced can you imagine how many wanabe superhero programmers who buy it would try to modify it and end up frying their master or power cells?
Obviously you don't know how these items work. Allowing programming has nothing to do with "frying" things. That happens when circuits are over loaded, which anyone can do at any time depending upon what is hooked up. Fortunately, this scenario is also "fool proofed" with "circuit breakers" built in so overloads are not an issue either.
Do you really think a small "PLC" like the Isis units are any more complicated than the "brains" of an ECU? I mean plenty of people on here are going into their ENGINE electronic control unit and changing things. Do you really think that people who are modifying engine operating parameters would have any bigger issues with modifying "if, then" type of scenarios with on/off switches?
You guys need to thank Steve for all the mods on this build, I just helped on the electrical Steve (sk7500) just signed up so maybe he can answer any questions that you guys have.
Obviously you don't know how these items work. Allowing programming has nothing to do with "frying" things. That happens when circuits are over loaded, which anyone can do at any time depending upon what is hooked up. Fortunately, this scenario is also "fool proofed" with "circuit breakers" built in so overloads are not an issue either.
Do you really think a small "PLC" like the Isis units are any more complicated than the "brains" of an ECU? I mean plenty of people on here are going into their ENGINE electronic control unit and changing things. Do you really think that people who are modifying engine operating parameters would have any bigger issues with modifying "if, then" type of scenarios with on/off switches?
And how many people grenade their engines when they do their at-home (or even at a shop) tuning w/o fully understanding what's going on - many.
Secondly, this isn't like opening up SCT livewire and clicking on a bunch of numbers and changing them. The code has to be written, and i suspect it's a tad bit more onerous than changing some if then else statements.
For example, I wanted to run dual (<30amp) radiator fans, with isis controlling each one (circuit 8 and 9 in front power cell). I wanted to be able to control them manually (off/on) switch, and via thermostatic fan switch. I also only wanted fans to be on/off if switch 12v (ignition key) was present. Well, that's impossible to do since a therm. fan switch is self grounded to the block (so the last part - only on when switch 12v is on - was violated).
You'd think all you'd do is re-program the master cell (i.e., only allow circuits 8 and 9 to be on if 3 is on), but I had to reporgram master and both (front/rear) power cells. It's more than if-than-else.
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