Hey Crash, you are a worse tease than some girls I know!! kick out some info on this and how long do we have to wait to see it?
I am directly involved with it, but I have also gotten side tracked with a rather large project for an up coming event with F5. All my resources are being directed to the F5 project at this time, so not even able to give an estimate on when you might see what in regards to the other project.
What I will say is that, to me, it looks even better in person than it does in a drawing/picture. We shall see what, if anything, becomes of the prototype that is being built.
Guess this is another example of why I should be careful of saying "that will never happen".
Looking forward to seeing the finished product, whatever it is.
__________________
FFR #7124 Mk 3.1, Levy 5 link, LCA's & brakes, 17" Halibrands, electric PS, SAI, Eibach springs, BOSS 427w, webers, hood louvers, tilt front. Delivered 12/23/09, 1st start 02/19/12. 1st go cart 03/03/12. Titled 10/3/12.
"I'm basing it on a collective interpretation of these particular cars. And whatever the hell I like". The Federalist Patriot Build blog: www.myersfamilyffrbuild.blogspot.com
So I'm not off my rocker. I know you don't want to give out too many details, but are you pretty much doing as my idea
SLC Chassis
Modified GTM body
I might do the same if it looks anything like my cheezy paintchop. I don't think actual cost would be much more than a typical build, and would stop traffic anywhere.
BTW, I'll be in Oklahoma next month (more than likely) and would be driving through Dallas,, any chance I could sneak a peak?
Last edited by guitaraholic; 08-22-2012 at 04:49 PM..
So I'm not off my rocker. I know you don't want to give out too many details, but are you pretty much doing as my idea
SLC Chassis
Modified GTM body
I might do the same if it looks anything like my cheezy paintchop. I don't think actual cost would be much more than a typical build, and would stop traffic anywhere.
BTW, I'll be in Oklahoma next month (more than likely) and would be driving through Dallas,, any chance I could sneak a peak?
No. No other kit car manufacturers chassis is being used. Quite frankly, you would have as much or more mods to do to an SLC chassis as are needed to a GTM frame. They are different creations. We should leave them as such, IMHO.
BTW- I am in San Diego, but have projects going in other locations.
Well let me put something in your mind for you... I think the GTM looks absolutle STUPID from certain angles in certain pictures..... then I see it from another angle/stance combination and all of a sudden it looks rediculously badass again... and I think to myself.. how can it even be the same car???
With that said... from a side shot like your picture above with the front and rear height stance sitting level ... I think thats not really a good angle for the GTM in a picture. Theres body debth that cant be captured in a picture there until you see it from a "1" or "11" oclock position and the scoops are sticking out and the body lines are much better seen !!!
The "snub" nose looks great from the side, but from the front It looses its appeal somewhat for me .. kinda like a snubnose bus vs a freightliner with the long hood.... and from the back a picture with the long streatch behind the rear windows gonna make it look funny too.
Just be careful.. you will do all this extra work for nothing more than just the look of it... and that will only work when its seen from a SPECIFIC angle.....
Just be careful.. you will do all this extra work for nothing more than just the look of it... and that will only work when its seen from a SPECIFIC angle.....
In the particular project I am speaking of, it was form following function. There are some access issues that needed addressing and there really was no other way to deal with it than to move the windshield forward. The looks were definitely secondary to the excercise, but, again IMHO, came out great. Along with a few other mods, IMHO, the body that I am speaking of DOESN'T HAVE A BAD ANGLE. As far as the stretch behind the side windows goes, if the roof is adjusted to proportion correctly, then it is hardly noticable and doesn't look bad what so ever. It is really quite stunning...but alas, I have said too much already!
I will agree with you though. Some of the viewing angles of the GTM do not look all that attractive.
Well let me put something in your mind for you... I think the GTM looks absolutle STUPID from certain angles in certain pictures..... then I see it from another angle/stance combination and all of a sudden it looks rediculously badass again... and I think to myself.. how can it even be the same car???
I cannot agree with you more. I am still sitting on the fence here between the GTM and a certain other.... I see pictures of the GTM that I absolutely druel over and it's decided, then all of a sudden I see another pic of a certain view and it kills it for me. I think, however, that a lot of vehicles are that way.... some more than others.
I cannot agree with you more. I am still sitting on the fence here between the GTM and a certain other.... I see pictures of the GTM that I absolutely druel over and it's decided, then all of a sudden I see another pic of a certain view and it kills it for me. I think, however, that a lot of vehicles are that way.... some more than others.
I have to agree with Iron Man, When I saw his a little over a year ago, from a lot of angles it looks really good. There are a few angles it loses it's charm. However, for the most part an overall great looking car.
For now, because I am going to be overseas for the next year (making it a 3rd, feels like I've been here forever). I went ahead and got an SLC. It showed up at my mechanics a couple of months ago. He was stunned on how good it looked. He said the "bubble" look of the windshield did not at all show in person and his exact wording was "No picture can do this car justice". Just sitting as a rolling chassis he gets tons of attention with it.
I was going to have him build it, but it turned out he really doesn't have the time. Either way, when I get back, I do not want to spend the next year or two building a car. So again, for me the SLC was a logical choice (about 300hrs to complete, and that's with paint). There is a pretty good chance I would like to play with the idea of getting a GTM, and just really take my time on it. That way I can look for the really good deals to get it within a fairly good budget, as well as fix some other issues.
1. The visibility for someone 6' is not all that great. It's about the same as if I was driving a normal car with the sun visor straight down (roll bar in the way)
2. Shifter is in an awkward position (personal preference)
3. Seat did not go far back enough for my long legs.
4. Steering wheel a bit too close for me (might be a easy fix)
Pretty much a lot of it has to do with sitting too far forward. I am not sure if Iron Man's seat could be moved back further.
I would like to see how Crash modified the chassis for it to work. The only reason I mentioned the SLC chassis is.
a) both cars are exactly the same width
b) wheelbase is only off buy a couple of inches (fiberglass needs to be added to the middle)
FIA test showed the SLC chassis stiffness as 25000Nm/Deg, which comes to about 19000ftlbs/in (IIRC). That is incredibly stiff. However if the GTM chassis can be modified to work and add a bit of rigidity to it. I would be very interested in seeing it.
Crash, if you don't mind, where is the project being worked on? I am going to be doing a bit of travelling on my next R&R trip, and would love to see it in person.
Last edited by guitaraholic; 08-23-2012 at 04:33 AM..
Well let me put something in your mind for you... I think the GTM looks absolutle STUPID from certain angles in certain pictures..... then I see it from another angle/stance combination and all of a sudden it looks rediculously badass again... and I think to myself.. how can it even be the same car???
With that said... from a side shot like your picture above with the front and rear height stance sitting level ... I think thats not really a good angle for the GTM in a picture. Theres body debth that cant be captured in a picture there until you see it from a "1" or "11" oclock position and the scoops are sticking out and the body lines are much better seen !!!
The "snub" nose looks great from the side, but from the front It looses its appeal somewhat for me .. kinda like a snubnose bus vs a freightliner with the long hood.... and from the back a picture with the long streatch behind the rear windows gonna make it look funny too.
Just be careful.. you will do all this extra work for nothing more than just the look of it... and that will only work when its seen from a SPECIFIC angle.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureGTMdaddy
I cannot agree with you more. I am still sitting on the fence here between the GTM and a certain other.... I see pictures of the GTM that I absolutely druel over and it's decided, then all of a sudden I see another pic of a certain view and it kills it for me. I think, however, that a lot of vehicles are that way.... some more than others.
IMO there are no bad angles when seen in person and there is not a picture that does the GTM justice.
You have to see the GTM in person. I had seen pictures that were good and seeing Judd's and Keith's on power block was better. But these were not even close to what I saw as I drove up to Keith's GTM. The lines and the stance were beautiful from every angle. So for me it seems odd that one would want to do a major mod of this nature while there are similar platforms with a lot of the characteristics shown above. But to each his own.
__________________
R/s
Vidal
CURRENT STATUS: Bodywork.
GenII GTM #331. Delivered (23/9/10)
BUILD LOG AND WEBSITE: http://gtmbuild.weebly.com .
My seat is bolted all the way back and down on the floor... it cant get any lower or further back unless you cut a hole in the floor .. lol.. It is just perfect for me at 6 ft even, any taller and it would be annoying to drive.
I dont like my shifter location either, feels like my elbow is fighting the center cover.
[QUOTE=crash;2702925]In the particular project I am speaking of, it was form following function. There are some access issues that needed addressing and there really was no other way to deal with it than to move the windshield forward. The looks were definitely secondary to the excercise, but, again IMHO, came out great. Along with a few other mods, IMHO, the body that I am speaking of DOESN'T HAVE A BAD ANGLE. As far as the stretch behind the side windows goes, if the roof is adjusted to proportion correctly, then it is hardly noticable and doesn't look bad what so ever. It is really quite stunning...but alas, I have said too much already!QUOTE]
is that project in Stockton? I saw something there that sound similar!
Now thats a badass car... and someone Im sure spent thousands of hours making it look the way it does ! .. BUT it will never ... ever... ever... look like a ferarri in my eyes !.. and the fact that it almost does, makes it look really funny !.. even though the original one is absolutely flawless.. the fact that this one is close to it.. but not it... defiles it ! And its almost unexplainable why.. just tiny dimensions that dont quite work and shouldnt be able to be seen...
Now at a glance at 80 mph... noones gonna know the difference... but thats not the whole point of all this work your explaining. Im not trying to talk you out of it... but if you want a ferrari 458... thats what you should buy !
I agree with you Iron Man,,, I don't see the point of building a replica. Even if you get it down to the last minute detail, and it performs as good, or better than the original. It will still never be the original.
I am all about all original body designs. That was one of the reason I looked at both the GTM and the SLC. Because after your done, it is exactly what it is supposed to be. The cars I mentioned above are just good examples of a cab forward design. I am eagerly await to see what crash has done.
The technical details of construction aren't really the problem. As shown, any competent auto engineer can do it.
IIRC the question was, will it sell?
The reason people would buy it is to have the look and performance. The key is, look and performance of - what? The entire genre of cab forward cars is vague and unknown to the general public. All too many of them have no clue about the Cobra Roadster, much less an obscure modern car.
It needs to have a strongly identifiable image in the public mind - exactly what creates the demand for owning the kit version. What kits are already out there? Cars with a lot of image time in the race press and on the news, something that generated a lot of positive imagery.
It's what has made Rolex what it is - not because their product line is all that good (it bluntly isn't in many ways. ) It's because the image of what they are is so powerful in the public conscious, even to the point of excessive copying.
Since you can't have the original, you buy a copy, a piece of the look. It's very much attached to a generation and what they collectively view as high performance. Model it after a well known and successful cab forward body style that has established itself with a major impact, and a kit should sell.
That's the issue, tho, none have done it yet. Host a show of all the cab forwards and you will have attendees wandering around commenting about all the high end kit cars. They don't identify any specific concept with one or the other. It would be a parade of style concepts to them, and they could all have VW frames under them.
If the GTM has a "hook" that does help it sell, it's being faithfully generic to a type of midengine concept. People may not know what brand it is, but they can tell what is under it.
Cab forward will be a kit in the future, no doubt. The trick is which one will finally surge to the top of public awareness - because that will make or break the business.
I am all about all original body designs. That was one of the reason I looked at both the GTM and the SLC. Because after your done, it is exactly what it is supposed to be.
Are you building an SL-C? It has a lot of the characteristics listed. One is being built a few miles from me. Very nice kit.
__________________
R/s
Vidal
CURRENT STATUS: Bodywork.
GenII GTM #331. Delivered (23/9/10)
BUILD LOG AND WEBSITE: http://gtmbuild.weebly.com .
I think you missed my point. I wasnt talking about the fact that its a replica ! I was attempting to explain without the resources to build several molds and dispose of them at will for another one after only minute adjustments ... you will have to get the proportions right the very first time... or it just wont look right.. and you wont even be able to explain to yourself why....
Iron Man - Roger that. I think a good example of a cab forward design production car that's proportion's are a little off is the Audi R8 (imho). It's not an ugly car, but something about it doesn't look right.
However, as with any original design, cab forward or not, you are going to have to build multiple molds. I don't foresee a cab forward design causing much if any more design/aesthetic issues than a standard design.
VD2012 - Yes, I will be building an SLC. I the kit and everything except the transaxle and exhaust in the garage, but I will be overseas for one more year. So, it will have to wait for next year (grrr). At least when I get back, I should be able to get it built in just a few months (taking a LONG vacation)
Sometimes a new look has to ''grow'' on me before it looks right. I also thought the Audi A8 was a little quirky when I first saw it. After seeing it for a while, it now seems more normal.
You guys are forgetting.... every car has a new generation introduced after a few years. Someone just has to do the design. I'd buy it! (Just add a couple inches of head room)
I agree with the head room. The current design looks like somebody stepped on it and squished the top down. A few more inches in height would help resolve that and make it much easier to get in and out of.
Since moving the cab forward puts your feet in the wheel well, how about centering the driving position? You might even get 2 seats in tandem right behind the driver, let the passenger's feet come up beside the driver a bit.
How goes the build on the prototype you are working on? Any teaser shots?
I'm not going to show any pictures until the first body is done. I am working on nose inlets and outlets right now, and am in my third iteration. There have been a couple people come to the shop and their reactions have been just what I had hoped for. A couple "WOWs!" and one or two "hey, that's how FFR should have made it to begin with", so I am happy with how it is coming along. Sorry it isn't done yet, but life gets in the way of cars sometimes and things end up taking longer than anticipated.
The roof on my body version is moved up 1.5 inches. Any more and there are issues with the windshield reveal being correct looking. That doesn't seem like much, but it helps a TON, IMHO. Think of it this way, if you currently fit in the GTM but are up against the roof, this will add enough space to put the 1.5 inch roll cage tube ABOVE your head.
Believe it or not, the entire reason I went cab forward is because without doing so, with my vehicle layout, it was going to be nearly impossible to get in and out of the car. The top of the door HAD to move forward so that one could get in and out while still maintaining optimum tube placement for roll cage strength.
I modified the driver seat (actually Ron Richmond did) and took 3" of depth off of the back of the seat. It allowed the seat to angle back and drop down. The upper back area is not even felt when you sit in it. Everyone says it is super comfortable, better than stock. It gained about 2 1/2"-3" of head room and brought up my knees enough where all fits great. I can now sit up with my head straight up (please no comments). In the car before my noggin' was at a 30 degree angle to fit. Now I can see the traffic lights! I will start a thread later with the pics, but you can definately fit with just a few minor tweaks.
I modified the driver seat (actually Ron Richmond did) and took 3" of depth off of the back of the seat. It allowed the seat to angle back and drop down. The upper back area is not even felt when you sit in it. Everyone says it is super comfortable, better than stock. It gained about 2 1/2"-3" of head room and brought up my knees enough where all fits great. I can now sit up with my head straight up (please no comments). In the car before my noggin' was at a 30 degree angle to fit. Now I can see the traffic lights! I will start a thread later with the pics, but you can definately fit with just a few minor tweaks.
Brian
Yes, but now try putting a helmet on that has an A/C vent in the top! Not gonna happen with the stock roof height. Not saying anything is wrong with your setup, just pointing out that some peoples needs are different than others.
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FFR 7124
2011 FFCar 
Gen2 GTM
Linear Mode
