If you are using a cable shfiter there is a much cleaner and easier way to route the serpentine belt. Simply cut off the section of the alternator relocation bracket the hangs down for the shifter rod bearing that you no longer need.
Do not change the belt tensioner to the ffr bigger one, just leave the oem one there but do place it in the tensioner relocation bracket.
Get a Dayco 5060535 shorter belt. Run the belt over the tensioner, down over the alternator, around the crank and then in and around the right side of the waterpump bell and then up to the tensioner again. If someone can post the picture of how it looks, let me know where to email the picture.
another trick is to drill and tap a 1/4" hole on the flat spot on top of the water pump and use it for the steam line off of the heads instead of running the line all the way to the front ........mike
Thanks f0or the suggestion Gary! As you probably have noticed, I have struggled with eliminating the belt squeal until the engine warms up, having tried various pulleys, belts and alignments. I'll try this one next since I have the cable shifter.
Thanks Gary!!!!!!!!!!!!! All you persistent readers have probably groaned over my numerous issues with the serpentine belt squeak that would only go away after the engine warmed up. I took Gary's suggestion and changed the belt and pulley and -- voila-- no more embarassing cold starts with squeals. No more trying to hide as you leave a car show or try to explain what that noise is. The belt change and pulley changed my life forever!
I don't have the kit yet, but do have my LS3. I sat contemplating routing for a couple hours just last night. Good stuff, and as always, the picture is worth a 1000 words.
Crash and I have history...and a friendly one at that..
He told me on the phone that he wanted a Group C, DP, IMSA race car not a supercar .....and a Ricardo transaxle to boot..
Your comment about Bill surprises me and your inference to RCR is unfounded...maybe you should ask him how many times RCR has helped him out with issues not of our making...for free....hhhmm!
Many of Bills issues were caused by suppliers other than RCR...his engine/ transaxle/clutch/starter etc etc did not come from us and neither did his faulty ignition system...but ask away if it makes you feel better.....double wink
Now where did I put my glass of Koolade....wink
Crash and I have history...and a friendly one at that..
He told me on the phone that he wanted a Group C, DP, IMSA race car not a supercar .....and a Ricardo transaxle to boot. wink
Fran- Don't know what was said by Fab or why the posts here aren't being kept to serpintine belt issues, or cable shifter issues but I'll address your jab at me.
As you know, and as I have posted on GT40.com, you have an attitude that "it's my way or the highway". I'm not saying your wrong about that attitude, and again, as you know, I even stated that, from a business point of view, you are totally justified and right to have that view.
I have found however, that the F5 guys, as well as the end users, not only don't care about changing of details of the cars, but actually seem to encourage it. Did I want the looks of the SLC? Yeah. Is it practical for me from a build, money, use, and numbers that have already been produced view? NO. I never said I HAD to have a GTP, Group C type car, just that I preferred it.
As far as the Ricardo goes? It's still an option. As I just posted a few minute ago on GT40, I am waiting to see how the SDR comes along before deciding on a tranny.
Man, you must have quite the ego to be so offended by my suggested changes for MY BUILD of an SLC that you come on a totally unrelated thread, on an entirely different BBS and post comments like that. Can we agree to just disagree about your SLC and move on?
Nothing to do with ego mate.....just keeping the facts straight.
I hang out on the FFR forum as I have plenty of customers that have both FFR cars and mine too...
I recommended a few guys over here to try the Brandwood shifter and take an interest. Anyone going to use a G50 side-shift?
Plus I really like the FFR Daytona Coupe...what happened to your sense of humour?..(I did not mention the SL-C by the way..wink)
I converted from the FFR routing that came with the kit to this type routing and It appears to be better. One less component to allign and keep alligned.
The original FFR system has 3 flaws, the worst of which is the location of the tensioner. The original Corvette routing (and every other production car) has the tensioner on the slack side of the belt, i.e. just before the drive pulley on the return side. This means that all the loads are handled before the tensioner. The GTM has the tensioner between the water pump and the alternator, so that any load at the pump causes the tensioner to flex and create a loose belt. The other two problems are weak support brackets for the tensioner and idler. The solutions are a tensioner lock (Street & Performance offer one) and reinforced brackets. I made these changes after I lost my belt in the first week of driving and have never had another problem. From time to time the tensioner lock must be adjusted to account for belt stretch.
Not trying to poo-poo on the idea of going to a shorter belt, but I personally don't care for the looks of only having a 25% belt wrap on the alternator pulley, and I believe that the idler pulley needs to be in there for proper belt wrap on the alternator.....and gives more wrap on the crank pulley also. I do offer a simple and inexpensive support bracket for the idler pulley to eliminate the eventual bending/failure of the pulley mount:
This does not solve the problem with the tensioner location, but with this support installed, I have not experienced any belt noise or problems with the tensioner.
__________________ Shane Vacek-VRaptor SpeedWorks, L.L.C. Supplier of Many Custom Products for the GTM! GTM's & SL-C's Custom Built for You! http://www.vraptorspeedworks.com
One real easy way to clean up all of the belt issue is to go with an electric water pump. You gain HP and don't need all that business on top. Clean and simple. No squealing or clearance issues. I don't have my car at my home, it's at Ron's, but maybe he will post a picture or I can in a week or two.
One real easy way to clean up all of the belt issue is to go with an electric water pump. You gain HP and don't need all that business on top. Clean and simple. No squealing or clearance issues. I don't have my car at my home, it's at Ron's, but maybe he will post a picture or I can in a week or two.
Brian
Ron or Ted posted a pic of it when he was showing the alt bracket he made for it.
I had been talking to Ron when I ordered my tanks about going to an electric water pump to clean up the front of the motor area and potentially quite a few benefits space-wise for the interior volume in the waterfall area.
I studied a lot of the LS alternator mounting strategies on the market (mostly oriented to LS racers and street rods) but since I had already purchased a bunch of CTS-V front drive pieces I set up to make up something that worked for the GTM.
I've put together quite a few v-belt drive systems from scratch over the years and in my research had assembled quite a bit of data from short serpentine designs that had been developed for various applications, and ended up with a super simple alternator and tensioner mounting approach.
As the starting point the CTS-V alternator can be rigid mounted to the LS block in position to align with the Corvette LS front pulley with a correct length spacer and 2 bushings for the bolt holes. I machined the spacer from .750 steel rod, and one bushing from bronze (lower - under pulley load) and delrin (upper - position and weight bearing).
Then I designed a tensioner mount bracket using the block mounting bolt pattern and machined pad area that looks like this:
It is very strong as one tower supporting the tensioner is captured in a block bolt hole and the other tower is very close to the other block mounting bolt hole, and is doweled into the base plate in addition the the TIG weld. The second tensioner mount bolt is captured by a steel threaded insert on the backside of the bracket. The base plate is .250 6061T3 and the towers are 1.00 OD x .375 bore 6061 tube.
While I designed it for the factory tensioner I was concerned with the short belt dynamics under extreme engine acceleration/decel, and adapted the system to the COMP cams manual LS tensioner. It is a beautifully finished and designed part, and makes belt changes actually possible - something I was having problems doing even in a bare chassis with the spring tensioner. Besides being able to precisely dial-in your belt tension, the COMP tensioner has a deep pulley design that the stock part doesn't.
The mocked up system looks like this:
I won't know exactly how this will all work out until I get the go kart running, but it passes the engineer's "if it looks right" test. I am close to getting the front of the motor plumbed up so you can see a more complete remote water pump look.
Why not make the tensioner work in the opposite direction so that belt wrap on the pulleys is maximized?
Not to rain on mopartisan's parade, but that's exactly what I was thinking.....
__________________ Shane Vacek-VRaptor SpeedWorks, L.L.C. Supplier of Many Custom Products for the GTM! GTM's & SL-C's Custom Built for You! http://www.vraptorspeedworks.com
Crash and Shane
No rain on my parade, I live in Seattle!
I tried the "short belt" route too and it has challenges, the arc the tensioner moves in describes a very narrow range of belt lengths that along with the deep tensioner pulley in order to change belts, I couldn't get a size that worked out. Things are very tight mechanically for the tensioner and belt on that route (tighter than ac comp and thats skinny belt of course).
It is a 38.5 in belt now, which in 6 rib is one stout belt. With only the alternator driven i am not concerned about the pulley wrap, which is limited but not crazy. The gatorback serpentines also have great tread pattern and construction for hp use.
Plus if it slips or pukes a belt in trial runs I have a plan b.
Last edited by mopartisan; 08-31-2012 at 04:19 PM..
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2011 FFCar 
Gen2 GTM
Linear Mode
