Kumho Ecsta XS or Nitto NT01's ??

[JoeE]

For next season I want to start with fresh rubber on my car. I got through the season with an old set of R1's and they finally gave out fortunately at the last event. Those tires along with seat time saved me 13+ seconds. I have been running in the 52-54 sec range top cars 46 -47 range. I am at 56% and if I got down to 50 -51 I would be in the top 30%, I am not trying to be the best just having fun.

I could get a set of used A6's but they have been run this season by a top competitor and he gets new ones after an event or so. My concern is I will be struggling with them by the end of the season, slippery/ greasy. I am looking at the XS or NTs to start next season with a "new" set of fresh tires. There are stock '11/'12 Mustangs running with street tires and they are in the 50 sec range, so my thinking is I could get there without the need for A6's.

What do you guys think?

[JKleiner]

Hey Joe,
In case you are not aware the NT01 and XS are not actually direct competitors. Nitto's comparable to the Kumho XS is their NT05. Kumho's V700 is more in line with the NT01.

I've not tried either of the Nittos but have run two sets of XS for the last 3 seasons and like them alot. They love heat so with our light cars your first run will be a throwaway but after you start to get them warm they keep biteing harder and harder. Even on the hottest days I've not gotten them TOO hot to the point that they start getting greasy. My experience is that grip increases with wear also. On that subject, if you go with the XS I've found that it takes a couple hundred miles and a few heat cycles to break through the mold release and open up the rubber so that they'll really work.

With some grippier tires there is NO WAY a "stock '11/'12 Mustang" should even be in the same ballpark as you unless it's being driven by Superman! I've got a couple of them that run here and they are generally 5+ seconds back on a 45-50 second course.

Have fun!
Jeff

[mmarshall]

One of our local guys runs the NT01's on a fairly stock Transam. The car had A6's on it when I drove it and he said the NT01 was an improvement over the Hoosiers he took off (shortly after I drove it) as they were heat cycled out. The NT01 is not a street tire.

On the street I have used the XS's for 3 years. They are good hot but pretty low traction when cold or when wet. I raced one event last year in the rain on the XS's and they were terrible. This year I ran my Hankook C71's in the rain and they were amazing. The XS is fine in the rain to get you home, just not good enough on the track when wet.

[cobramd]

What size tires are you running the Kuhmo's are good but there are better alternatives depending on the size rears that you want to run.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by cobramd

What size tires are you running the Kuhmo's are good but there are better alternatives depending on the size rears that you want to run.

There is the key! As soon as you go bigger than a 275 the choices narrow very quickly. IMO a 275 in the rear of the Coupe looks out of place.

[cobramd]

Originally Posted by mmarshall

IMO a 275 in the rear of the Coupe looks out of place.

Agreed but a roaster can sport the 275's and still lool good and perform as good if not better with the right rubber

[JoeE]

Originally Posted by cobramd

What size tires are you running the Kuhmo's are good but there are better alternatives depending on the size rears that you want to run.

I am running 315 rear and 275 front with neutral oversteer. I was thing about going to 255 in front and keep the 315 rear. My thoughts are since I have manual steering and I run a but of caster that I may be able to get my turns quicker with out creating an understeer problem. Turning those 275 I think was more of a hindrance than any gain in front end traction.

I am trying to avoid the $325+ price tag of dedicated Hoosiers or Kumho's

Comments please..

[cobramd]

In those sizes the only onther one I can think of is the Toyo R888 they are streetable but do like to be heated up to get a good grip

[Mike_M]

Plus, I don't know how much truth there is to it, because I've never had any, but don't people say that having super sticky tires can hide a lot of driving mistakes. And if you're more towards the novice end of the spectrum than the expert end, I think you can learn bad habits if your tires are compensating. I always heard that driving on street tires as you learn is better for long-term skills anyway. So maybe you're on the right track with the XS option? Not sure. I'm more on the novice end than the expert for sure!

[Mike_M]

PS - I can't believe you can turn 275s with manual steering! Impressive. Show us a pic of the guns sometime... I can't imagine running autox with manual steering regardless of tire size actually! :-)

[JoeE]

Originally Posted by Mike_M

PS - I can't believe you can turn 275s with manual steering! Impressive. Show us a pic of the guns sometime... I can't imagine running autox with manual steering regardless of tire size actually! :-)

[JoeE]

Originally Posted by Mike_M

Plus, I don't know how much truth there is to it, because I've never had any, but don't people say that having super sticky tires can hide a lot of driving mistakes. And if you're more towards the novice end of the spectrum than the expert end, I think you can learn bad habits if your tires are compensating. I always heard that driving on street tires as you learn is better for long-term skills anyway. So maybe you're on the right track with the XS option? Not sure. I'm more on the novice end than the expert for sure!

I have just finished my 3rd season in my FFR 5th season total. 1st and 2nd on Sumi's then this past season I ran the marginal older R1's. Much improvement over the Sumi's and they were a blast two events in the July heat but then I attended an intermediate school late August did like 20+ runs and toward the end of the day they were getting slippery and cooling them with water helped a bit. Then the last 2 events they were just not working and they are shot. Yes I am trying to get a good to great tire that isn't a dedicated race slick. A lot of drivers in our club are faster on almost a plain street tires. Last event raw times:

Road Tire Rear Stock' - Times
2011 Ford Mustang GT Silver 51.783 51.132+2 51.255 50.751 50.441+1

2007 Ford Shelby GT 49.232+1 48.329 48.514 48.716+off 56.839+1 48.329

'F Stock' - Times Total
2012 Ford Mustang GT Hoosier A6's 48.055+off 51.004+off 47.757+2 47.863+1 47.526 47.526


The XP class
X Prepared' Times
1970 Porsche 911 Top car Race only Hoosier Slicks 47.638+1 47.822+1 46.332+3 46.719 54.391+off 46.719

1999 BMW M3 56.064+off 51.700+1 67.370 51.414 50.291 50.291


1997 BMW M3 Dark 53.490 51.550+3 52.299 50.482 53.445+2 50.482


**ME **2012 Factory Five Racing Roadster Black 55.537 55.228 56.293+1 54.754 55.783 54.754

Ordinarily if my tires were working reasonably i would have been 52 - 53ish I feel that i should be able to be 49 to 52 next season without spending $$$ of Hoosiers.

[CraigS]

Whatever tires you end up w/ my suggestion is install power steering and stay w/ 275s on the front.
Autozone rack numbers
#6406; 3.0 turns lock to lock
#6439; 2.5 turns lock to lock
#64163 2.25 turns lock to lock

They are all right around $100.
A stock mustang pump and hoses can be used. If you do that,cut the filler tube and extend it upwards w/ a piecs of hose and a couple of clamps to get a little more capacity and help keep from blowing fluid out of the vent. Seach this forum for specs on cutting the pressure relief spring in the pump to reduce assist. Breeze has a much better pump setup but it's a few more $.

[Sanford]

We have a Mustang driver who is superman. Only change to his car is springs and shocks. Still running the stock tires that came on his 2011 GT. He runs in the top 5. We are all surprised. He is just naturally good and hasn't autocrossed long

[CraigS]

I just reread this thread and noticed your comment about being able to get used A6s. that would be my plan if I were you. The fast guys in the DC area seem to have found that the A6s are good right til you cord them. this is different than had been the rep several years ago. A couple choose when to get a new set according to event schedules and which series is the most important to them. IE; if the next several events are of less importance,maybe they are just running individual events and not trying for a season trophy, they run til the tires cord. If the next event is one they are doing as a series they may get a new set a few events early. I am in the second teir in this area and got my first set of new A6s in August of 2011. Ran them til Nov in maybe 8 events and then all through this past year 2012. SO i got approximately 1 1/4 to 1 1/3 seasons. I ran used V710s for about 3 seasons previously. I had a couple of sources but they were different for the fronts and rears so i never had a matched set. But they were better than street tires. I had spent a couple of years til I could afford an extra set of wheels and that was when I started running the 710s. I was also using tire traction goop on them to help me out since they were always old. If there is ANY way to budget for a set of wheels and used A6s, I recommend you do it. Some of the guys call them 'purple crack' The labels are purple and once you run on them you will never want anything else. A6s are phenomenol!