end state FFR and superformance

[merim123]

Curious on the group take on this superformance finished car and the FFR build. Granted this is over 75k, but seeing nicer door panels, roll up windows, hvac controls is really interesting. I've never actually seen a superformance coupe in person, so not sure, but this one looks really really nice. is all this possible (at reasonable costs) with a FFR?

Replica/Kit Makes : Other Cobra in Replica/Kit Makes | eBay Motors

[John Dol]

At the risk of getting ousted (LOL) if you can afford that car it will probably be a better/more complete/comparable to a road car car. Now bang for your buck is another story.

John

[tirod]

All that can and has been done, posted complete with pictures right here in this forum.

Interesting that the write up includes the exhaust was modified to exit out the side - as if it was originally an undercar rear exit exhaust.

The area that will likely get the most discussion is the question: Can it be done "at reasonable costs?" My answer is, will it be owner labor?

It's a nice set of pictures, and it does detail a lot of methods that Superformance used in the day, most still applicable. But, there are alternatives that could be done just as effectively, with more style, cheaper.

I'll bring up a few - the carbon fiber panel in the radiator exhaust. For the cost/benefit, it's 100% bling. The interior door panels in whatever fuzzy finish are questionable in durability, and looks flocked over. It could have picked up the styling colors and cues from the seats, along with the materials.

The photo album has an almost offensive perspective - it's all about the shiny chrome and polished aluminum. As a buyer, I'd be much more concerned what behind the dash, how it was wired, why money was spent on AN lines, etc. It's a showcase of "American Haute Rod", not my cup of tea. (<<< my term, use it with due credit )

But, all said and done, can it be, sure. Don't farm out any of it, you could save tens of thousands of dollars.

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by merim123

Curious on the group take on this superformance finished car and the FFR build. Granted this is over 75k, but seeing nicer door panels, roll up windows, hvac controls is really interesting. I've never actually seen a superformance coupe in person, so not sure, but this one looks really really nice. is all this possible (at reasonable costs) with a FFR?

Replica/Kit Makes : Other Cobra in Replica/Kit Makes | eBay Motors

merim123,

The CSX 9000 price to get you just a roller is going to start somewhere in the 90K range, and 100K+ for a turn key.
$75k Maybe will get you a used one if you're lucky.

If you have the time, talent, and or money, you can build a FF for less with those specs.

[JKleiner]

Originally Posted by tirod

Interesting that the write up includes the exhaust was modified to exit out the side - as if it was originally an undercar rear exit exhaust.

Well, actually as delivered from the factory the exhaust on a SPF DOES exit at the rear rather than the non functional side pipes.

They are nice cars, definitely more refined than a straight out of the box FFR and in the end a somewhat different animal.

Jeff

[turbodon]

Currently if you want a new Superformance Coupe, you are looking at $80,000 with no motor or transmission. If you have the motor and trans installed with the contracted agreed upon combinations, you are in it $150,000 out the door after tax etc.

$75,000 may be a pretty good deal. 25,000 miles on odometer and it states 17,000 on current motor. I would find out what cam is in the motor. They tend to talk customers into the really big cams that are crap to drive on the street. Once you down size the cam, it becomes a really nice 427 to drive on the street and back roads.

In the photos, the paint looks a little scratched on the nose. I would have questions about the door latches. They seem to have issues opening the doors.

I don't like the pictures showing the spark plug wiring. The current routing will have the wires burned through in no time.

good bidding.

[FFR 5332]

Depends on what you're looking for. The SPF is a nice car. I traveled about 200 miles in one, and now have a FFR Coupe. The SPF is much more of a comfortable street car, while the FFR is a raw race car ( depending a lot on how you build it of course ) Personally, I like the FFR body styling better and the chassis is far superior to the SPF. I have a BMW M3 for creature comfort with performance, so I want my Coupe to be a raw, nasty, hot, loud beast that's more at home on the track.

[merim123]

thanks for the feedback guys. you guys caught a lot more detail than I did in that ad. if a roller is 80k and this one is selling for 75k, seems like a good deal for a finished car.


As for me, I want to build a car, I'm just travelling too much right now and won't be able to start a project for 2-3 years yet again. I've built a few camaro's but mainly engines / engine swaps /rewiring/ etc. I'm not shy or afraid of trying it on my own so no issues there. I would run a ls/t56 setup as that is what I have sitting in the garage and I'd be building a street car, that's why all the 'small' amenities have a nice appeal for me.

my stock z06 sits in the garage and that's the other woman as my wife calls it and will always be that garage queen that we take out once in a while. For my own fun though, I like the rumble of the camaro, but dealing with rust/etc...get's old and limited access to engine for maintenance gets old. Would be nice to have a clean slate to build from to change things up

btw- side impact, any issues there? I ask because I saw this pic of a panoz frame and looks pretty robust in the sides...

[John Dol]

I welded a 2 X 2 over the 1" bar for better side impact protection. But others (Brian Palmer, Hank) have made side impact protection similar to the Panoz.

John

[IMG][/IMG]

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by merim123

btw- side impact, any issues there? I ask because I saw this pic of a panoz frame and looks pretty robust in the sides...

Because most things on the street sits higher than a Coupe, side impact is the least of your worries.
Being rearended would be the biggest concern or having a suv run up the hood into the cabin area.

[merim123]

Originally Posted by Rich A

Because most things on the street sits higher than a Coupe, side impact is the least of your worries.
Being rearended would be the biggest concern or having a suv run up the hood into the cabin area.

you are right about this, i feel this way in the corvette sometimes. wouldn't hurt to make a nice cage all around to help. I think I read a post in the cobra section with one of the guys saying treat the cobra like a motorcycle.

Went to go sit in a Superformance cobra today and it's a snug tight fit, wish there were some coupe's I could see in the chicago area, but I have yet to see one on the road...as in never.

[Cone Basher]

If you want to build your own car you cannot go wrong with choosing the FFR Coupe as a starting point. I built mine for auto-X/Track day events because of the race car history and I've always loved the look. IMHO they take a lot of work to make a civilized street car but it can be done. I to have a ZO6 for my road car and it is a pleasure to drive fast and stable, AC, radio etc. gets from 20 to 26 mpg and the wife likes it. When I want hot fast and loud I take my Coupe to a speed event. The build process for me was almost as much fun as driving my car at a speed event. If you take pride in your work and want a problem solving exercise this is for you it will give you great satisfaction when completed.
Keep in touch:
HTH
CB

[John Dol]

Look at the first post in this forum, it shows the where abouts of coupe owners.

John

[Hunter 2]

Peter Brock approved. Better than the F5 version. Not even worth debating. Will cost thousands to turn a F5 into a baseline version of that. Did I say not even worth debating.

[RobbieD]

Originally Posted by Hunter 2

Peter Brock approved. Better than the F5 version. Not even worth debating. Will cost thousands to turn a F5 into a baseline version of that. Did I say not even worth debating.

Depends on what you want... And the size of your wallet.

[KodiakCoupe]

Originally Posted by RobbieD

Depends on what you want... And the size of your wallet.

You can't build an SPF but you CAN build an FFR coupe. To many of us, it's about the build. The drive is simply a bonus.

[Roy Hewson]

Hunter, I agree with you if you looking for your coupe to be more of an every day driver and civilized, more PC and comfort is a desire. However, If you want more performance and the thrill of a beast that will make you smile at it's raw pleasure then FFR is the way to go,--------NO DEBATING----I did that just for grins as everyone is capable of forming their own opinion.
Roy
PS The FF5, I believe is a much better looking car

[Spaceclam]

So yesterday I went to hillbank motorsports in irvine, ca, to look at the spf coupes.

BEAUTIFUL MACHINES. Most of the time. They have a lot of really elegant solutions to common FFR problems (like way better looking bubbles/vents for the rear quarter windows, glass windows that roll down, third brake light already installed in spoiler, completely different front turn signals which are visible during the day, Radius at the top front corner of the window, etc). No, the exhaust does not come out the back from the factory. That's an option you have to buy.

The upsides are, for the kind of money you pay, while it's still expensive, it's a hell of a deal, because the craftsmanship is absolutely top notch. perfect 5mm door/hood gaps all the way around, well insulated, and light. The new coupes don't even use bubbles for the rear quarter windows, they just have a mini-shroud that's part of the body, and you'll see that on my coupe for sure. They have hood louvers on the top, which are just expanded steel, laid flush with the outside, and man do they look good.

They do however have a couple tacky problems too though. They use this really big, chunky trim seal around the windows and doors. It's too big for that car, and looks cheap. The plastic piece they use to provide a radius at the bottom front corner of the window looks cheezy next to the kickass paint job. The windows roll down, but they have to tilt forward to do so, and only go down most of the way. Their roofline slopes down toward the front, so the windows are about an inch shorter in the front than in the back, but they only roll down about 10 inches at the front, less in the back. When the windows are "down", it looks like it's broken.

The interior door panels are covered with this one-piece synthetic material that feels like neoprene but looks fuzzy. While it fits the utilitarian interior, it doesn't do much to complement the sexiness on the outside. The whole car smells like glue, and the radio is placed out of reach for the driver who is strapped in with a 4pt harness.

If I had the money and no time, I'd buy an SPF. But I can also steal SPF's solutions to FFR problems, and implement them on my already hybrid coupe.

In terms of finish state-
Mine will be comparable to the SPF, but with much nicer door panels and a few other nice things, but minus a couple of amenities. It will have taken me about 3 years, and have been a total pain in the ass as well as a lot of fun. Had I saved my money instead of spent my money, I could have afforded an SPF.

But I think the FFR has a sexier body.

-Clam

[Thomas W]

The SPF is a beautiful car. A downside is it's quite a bit heavier than the FFR.

[John Dol]

Clam,

No pics??

John

[tirod]

Interesting views on the actual SPF's.

While I wouldn't debate the virtues of a handbuilt exotic car priced over $80,000, I would also suggest those who want to see individually crafted autos take a long long look at the street rod market, especially the customs vying for Ridler awards. There are real craftsmen out their in that genre, and they don't have to excuse their work against anything else on the market - including high dollar luxury cars.

Take that same level of craftsmanship and apply it to the Daytona Coupe, an individual can do as well if not better. As I said, anything you see on the SPF, has been done and is already documented and posted here or on TOS.

The difference is the perspective - one caters a finished product to those with the coin to spend NOW, and the other caters a functional product to those who can build it as luxuriously as they want. Considering the first Gen Coupes were raw racing machines, frankly, anything would be an improvement for a road car.

What I've seen done here? Undercar exhaust, all reasonable late model choices of drivetrains, A/C, roll up windows that roll down completely, dozens of modern dashboard layouts, interiors that make Corvettes look run of the mill, suspensions that perform, braking systems that can tolerate immense abuse and still keep working, and team efforts to campaign cars that set Land Speed Records and win track championships.

Debatable? Not hardly. It can be done - and done better. The difference is that so many aren't after a heavyweight luxo car with A/C. They build Coupes emulating what they were, raw boned racers. I know which one I would take to the Silver State Classic - $80k would go far building a 200mph + road machine, and it wouldn't need air or roll up windows.

[Spaceclam]

I don't have any pics for you because they are on my phone.

However, I have a rendition of what superformance's solution will look like on an FFR when I am done, versus the FFR stock. This is somebody xlr8or's car. Im about halfway through this process.

See rounded top front and rear window edges, the frameless glass, and the partial glassed-in shroud around the quarter window. The shroud actually follows the curvature of the body, and sits away from the window, but this can not be seen from this angle

[xlr8or]

I think my car just got Clammed.