NY Coupe Owners

[BIL1024]

When you registered the coupe in NY ? did they require you to put on bumpers of some sort ?I talked to the DMV and they are required, thanks.

[twan374]

They are also going to give you grief about the plastic side windows. Down state there is also an emissions issue. If the block is latter than 1975 they want cats on the car. Until The state adopts the SEMA profile for registering home built/ replica cars you are going to have your hands full in N.Y. There are some issues that are up to the vehicle inspectors interpertation and there is nothing you can do about it. I have gone through the salvage title proceedure in N.Y. for a few other vehicles dealing with these people . The last time I was there 3 out of 4 cars were rejected for varoious reasons. You might be better off getting it registered in a different state and transferring the title to N.Y. after you get an out of state title. You might try Montana It looks like they will register cars for out of state people and the form is one page. Good luck!

[BIL1024]

Yeah this broke my heart, you can not legally own a coupe or GTM in NY. I was going to order this week, thank goodness I cked with the Tom Noonan

[Arrowhead]

Originally Posted by BIL1024

you can not legally own a coupe or GTM in NY.

First I ever heard of this (especially since I'm pretty sure there are GTM's in NY) can you elaborate?

[twan374]

Go on E Bay to kit cars and check the vin#s. You will see a lot of cars that if you decode the vin You would be supprised as to what the vin describes. Need I say more?

[Arrowhead]

Originally Posted by twan374

Go on E Bay to kit cars and check the vin#s. You will see a lot of cars that if you decode the vin You would be supprised as to what the vin describes. Need I say more?

I wouldn't be surprised at all. When I built my hot rod, I chose to go through the NYS "homebuilt" process to register it. Are you saying it can't be done for the GTM or Coupe?

[smithtlw]

Yes, please elaborate on the discussion with Tom Noonan and the aspects of the Coupe and GTM that are different from the Roadster that prevent registration in NY (I'm sure you can own one).

[loeffler1]

There's a coupe in Pittsford, NY that is registered. Can't remember his tag name. This doesn't seem realistic.

Bill

[BIL1024]

What Tom told me is that the car has to at least have bumpers of some type, if they do not it can not be legally registered in NY thru the DMV home built process. My last two roadsters had the overriders and bumpers on them which is ok. But the GTM and Coupe do not have either. Like Twan says there are ways, but not legal and I am not touching that! Until SEMA passes that law, I will stick to finishing the roadster. Let me know if you guys find out something differant

[smithtlw]

So, we need a definition of a bumper. The following is from a SEMA web site (SEMA Action Network (SAN) TAG_TITLE_TOOLBOX)

48. Bumpers or similar devices.
(a) For the purposes of this subdivision, the following terms shall have the following meanings:
(i) Bumper. A system, the primary function of which is to provide protection against damage affecting
front or rear external lamps, body parts and vehicle occupants during low speed impacts.
(ii) Passenger car. A motor vehicle whose body style is a sedan, hardtop, coupe, convertible, station
wagon or hatchback but not a van, minivan, multipurpose passenger vehicle, truck, tractor, motorcycle or
bus.
(b) No person shall operate a passenger car registered in New York unless it is equipped with both a front
and rear bumper, each securely fastened and with some part of the bumper located between sixteen
inches and twenty inches above the ground. This provision shall not apply to a vehicle registered as
an historical vehicle.

I would say you could argue that the coupe and GTM already have bumpers as they have features which would protect the lamps and occupants during low speed impacts. Take a look at a new Corvette, Camaro, Mustang or most any other modern production vehicle and tell me where the bumper ends and the body begins. Also, if it just the bumper thing preventing you from a coupe I think you could be a bit creative with a "real" bumper solution. Take a look at the rear bumper on Karen's race car. Even though it is only meant to be functional something similar could be done to look nice. The front would be a bit more of a challenge to stick something out there and make it look nice. How about if we fill the front nose with foam? Can it be called a bumper then?

Arrowhead was successful in registering in NY completely legally with a Hot Rod kit which comes with no bumpers (bumpers were fabricated and attached). I am also in NY and planning on ordering a coupe. I am not completely scared off... YET. The last thing I want is to invest all the time and $$ into the car and have issues registering it! I'm sure I will be nervous the whole time.

[Arrowhead]

Originally Posted by smithtlw

Arrowhead was successful in registering in NY completely legally with a Hot Rod kit which comes with no bumpers (bumpers were fabricated and attached).

Yup, the safety stuff was actually the easy part. Bumpers, wiper, defroster, third brake light, backup light, licensce plate light, padded visors, DOT tires, DOT numbers for lights, etc. The #'s matching paper work for the drivetrian train not so much

(BTW, fenders are NOT required)

Pictures sent to Tom Noonan for safety equipment verification:





Funny, I must not have bolted the bumpers on very tight, they fell off in the driveway after I got my plates

[BIL1024]

Arrowhead your a trip!

Smith -
I thought about getting sort of creative with front and rear overriders but to drill into the rear of the coupe body does not appeal to me, and the front, maybe a little easier but again drilling thru the nose ? I hope someone has another idea, I bought me a Daytona hat and sweat shirt too!

[twan374]

The point I was trying to make is exactley what is discussed . My definition of a suitable bumper may not be what the DMV inspectors is and if he is not satisfied you are going to have to do what he wants when you get a new appointment in 2 or 3 months for another inspection. On the roadster, the arguement could be made that the bumper overiders are exact duplicates of the originals bolted to the chassis. New cars have energy absorbing front and rear facia with stryrofoam behind it which is bolted to the unitbody not even in the same league as a fiberglass body shell. Like I said there are other states that will register kits without bumpers and other things if the car is a reasonable copy of the original. The GTM is in a class of its own because its not a replica of anything. The SEMA profile make accomodations for homebuilt and replicars.

[twan374]

I also have a TVR 2500M that had rubber bumpers bolted to the fiberglass body. Totally useless in any situation. The shock load felt by the bumper will be directly distributed to the fiberglass body upon impact. TVR got it approved by the Federal Govt.?? using that reasoning, you could bolt some rubber to the body of the coup and call it a bumper but I doubt DMV is going to buy it. You could also site othe vehicles that came from the factory with bumpers that were a joke but you have to convince DMV that yours are as good. The other problem In NY is that if there is an issue with say your rear lights, the inspection stops and you fail. They will not go over the car and let you know if there are any other items that will not pass or give you a list of things that need to be corrected for the next reinspection so that it will pass. Then you go back and get a different inspector he may have another idea of what is passing. SO around and around you go in NY.

[BIL1024]

Good old NY! Well, I checked out Karen's car pics and that is doable, I think that there may be a way to do this and I am thinking I may just go ahead and order the coupe. Who knows, maybe some vender will come up with an option of sorts. I really appreciate your guys inputs and giving me some hopes.

Bill

[smithtlw]

That's the spirit. You're pretty much committed anyhow seeing you have a hat AND a sweat shirt. We have a pretty good idea of what will pass based on Arrowhead. I think you will have a harder time pleasing yourself than the DMV inspector.

[oxide]

Bumpers can be installed in a coupe and not affect the look and are functional. This coupe has bumpers installed.





Under the cover.

[BIL1024]

Now thats what I am talking about! Thanks oxide,

[twan374]

Don't want to be a ball breaker but how do those bumpers protect the lights?

[oxide]

Originally Posted by twan374

Don't want to be a ball breaker but how do those bumpers protect the lights?

Depends on what your definition of bumper is and what the main purpose is. Here in this province, the engineer who certifies the cars only cares that it protects the fuel tank. I worked with him to get certification for the coupe and this is what we came up with.

The bumper also has to be set at a specific height. For any fender benders with other cars, the contact will not be where the lamps are. In the real world with SUVs and trucks, it doesn't matter where your bumper is, you will have damage.

In this example, the rear bumper is flush against the body at the correct height. The lamps are in the positions of the CSX2600 and CSX2601 which are higher and more out of the way for car bumper to bumper collisions. The front bumper is actually forward of the headlamps. But as with modern cars, you will have body damage in low speed collisions since the plastic bumper is part of the body design as in this case. I have seen low speed collisions that have damaged parking lamps on modern cars.

[twan374]

no arguement with what you are saying. I was referring to NYDMV description of the function of a bumper. It has to protect the lamps front and rear.

[oxide]

Originally Posted by twan374

no arguement with what you are saying. I was referring to NYDMV description of the function of a bumper. It has to protect the lamps front and rear.

And in this coupe, you could argue that they do.

[Roy Hewson]

The Dupont Registry has full page ads for registering cars in Alaska or Montana done of course through a law office in the state. It might be worth checking out as Montana says no inspection. I live in NH so I did not have any problems but you have to be a resident to register in NH. Maybe Alaska and Montana are different and residence requirements aren't as strict. It would be worth a few phone calls. The Montana ad is paid for by Heggan Law Office, P.c.800-430-8496. info@hegganlawoffice.com. They are located @ 2675 Palmer, suiteF, Missoula, Mt 59808

[Arrowhead]

If you are building a kit car in NY and you are going to go through the "homebuilt process", the first step is to get the application package from Tom Noonan at DMV. It will have all the forms to fill out and will have description of all the components required. Anything else is just internet speculation and may lead you not be approved and cost you time and money. There's no negotiating, justifying or pleading your case to things that are not inline with thier specifications (especially when it comes to the source of the body, frame and drivetrain).

You have to remember, they don't care what your building - a coupe, roadster, hot rod or a wood boat that drives on the road, thier requirements are universal.

Start here:
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/vs100.pdf

[BIL1024]

Thanks Arrowhead, I actually talked to Jason at FFR and he gave me some ideas. I have gone thru the process twice and talked to Tom last week at DMV. I fowarded him some pics of other FFR coupes with internal and external bumpers to get his take. waiting on his reply now. Will let you all knowthe outcome.

Bill

[lkrug1]

Bill; Lost a bit of sleep last night over this "bumper suprise". Called Mark today and yes bumpers are req so I will be waiting to see what you come up with. After looking at $1,295 for a Montana plate ,coupe #355 will have bumpers. On another issue Mark said the side windows in plastic are a no go so I left it and the Russ Thompson rear window at Abbot Glass today for quote in real glass.($300 or so I guess)
The end of the tunnel is in sight with just a few more hurdles.
Larry

[Rallygorgo]

Leave the side windows off until you have your title in hand, then install them. Roadsters don't have side windows so Coupes shouldn't need them either.

Don't forget to put socks over the required sun visors (makes them "padded").

[BIL1024]

George -
sounds like you went thru the process with a coupe. Can you post or PM me some suggestions. I am planning on placing the order next month and want all my ducks in a row.

[Cobra99]

I find this a bit confusing and disappointing. I had a 83 Toyota pickup which was the base model and it was delivered with no bumper, it was considered an option, which I didn't want to pay for so I didn't. Never had any problem reg it. so what gives? Disappointing in that now that I've decided to start working on the Coupe again this is one more thing I will have to modify on an already powder coated frame. Does anyone know yet from Tom Nonan if internal bumpers like Oxide did will be acceptable?

[BIL1024]

Cobra99 -
sent Tom pics on Monday, going to call him tomorrow to see if he got them, will let you know