Roll Cage side bars, NASA/SCCA

[LarsL]

Are additional side bars required to run SU in NASA or is the roll cage good as is delivered from FFR?
I'd like to use the doors so is there a legal bolt-in side bar version?

Lars

[stevemarcus]

There is no significant side protection on the Coupe as supplied from FFR that will pass NASA Tech. The CCR explains what you will need to have in the car to be eligible to use it for racing.
Steve

[danelam]

A bolt on will work. Marcus' guys are looking at some options for us. We can let you know what they come up with. Maybe Marcus can come up with something to sell you.

[LarsL]

Dan / Steve,
Thanks for your info. If you guys come up with a race legal bolt-on version, please let me and the rest of the gang know.
Lars

[vonrace]

See Don Vaught's pics of side roll bar protection and door protection that uses swing out bars. I helped him with this design and it is exactly what you are asking about. It is doable and very clean and doesn't lok like an intrusive add-on.

jack stand

[danelam]

Lars- I was with the builder on Friday and he has the bolt-on worked out. I will get post some pics when I am back up there. One other thing that he decided to do is run some more tubes forward or the firewall to help improve safety for the race car.

[mdjr70]

This thread is from 2002. I am in the process of figuring out the same issue; to pass SCCA tech inspection regarding side protection. If someone could steer me in the right direction about this so I don't have to reinvent the wheel I would greatly appreciate it.

Sam Stanley

[mdjr70]

You mention "Don Vaught's pics of side roll bar protection that uses swing out bars".

Where exactly do I find this in the Forum?

Sam Stanley

[turbodon]

Sam

1) Pickup the frame rule book from SCCA. NASA will follow their guidelines.
2) There are so many ways to meet the rules on door bars.

I made bars for the street. You could adapt height etc. to meet specs.

FFR and others have used an "X" design at the opening. There are many illustrations in the SCCA book on cages, door bars, etc.

[jwall4367]

The rules state you must have 2 door bars on the dirver's side.
Things to consider, the design of the bars has a lot to do with not just your safety but your exit strategy, plus the additional weight of the bars.
Another thing to remember to pass tech, suited up, with belts on, helmet on, window net in and steering wheel in place, you have 10 seconds to exit the vehicle.
If your a small slinder guy not much problem, but if your heavy???
I heard on a post that NASSA my consider the lower 2x2 perimeter bar as on of the required "door bars". I am not sure about that but the final OK comes from the chief scrutineer.
I went ahead and added 2 real bars. I also adjusted the dash to help w/egress.
I had right shoulder replacement surgery this March and I have practiced exiting the coupe with the mods = no problem.
Jeff

[bbk347]

You should also consider being able to exit from the passenger side relatively easy. You don't want to find out you can't when you're up against the wall on the dr side! I had some square tubing replaced on mine; under doors, down bars, and bars to the front "X" member with roll cage tubing at a race chassis shop near here. The down bars were good getting in (you basically fall in!) but I couldn't lift my butt out too easily and definitely not in 10 seconds! I eventually took them out. I'll attach a couple of pics. There's more if there's any interest in them.

[johnmdanskin]

Those velocity stacks are -so- cool

[bbk347]

I REALLY miss my coupe! It went to a good home though (and I have visitation rites!).

[johnmdanskin]

bbk47 mentioned being able to leave from the passenger side quickly.

If you do some DEs to tune up the car and the driver -before- you are three-wide through a corner at 110mph, you'll need a place to put the instructor or student, depending on your level. They need to be able to get in and out.

Those aluminum seats are so light, leaving the passenger seat in for racing is a pretty good option. Have salad for dinner the night before and you'll save as much weight as the seat.

[mdjr70]

Thanks a lot guys. This has been extremely helpful. I have researched this topic of SCCA approvable side protection quite a lot now, and am leaning in the direction of the "X" design since it appears to leave as much room for the driver and passenger to enter/exit as possible, while being minimally intrusive to the passenger compartment in general.

The problems with the SCCA's view of the FFR Coupe cage seem to stem from the fact that the front and rear loops don't extend down to the floor as in a "normal" car, therefore when you read the side protection rules that there must be "two side tubes connecting the front and main hoops across both door openings" they don't really know how to apply this requirement to this chassis. Similarly that the front hoop bracing "must incorporate a horizontal front hoop brace at the approximate level of the dashboard...One tube must extend, from each front down tube, forward to the firewall or through the firewall...This tube, one on each side, must connect to the chassis at a point not more than 12 inches forward of the front axle centerline."

I will be meeting with one of the Detroit Region SCCA Tech Inspectors this coming Tuesday do discuss my design, and his requirements. My frame builder met with him the other day and showed him my chassis (stock 2009 FFR). The comments I got back via my builder were along the lines that the inspector is unfamiliar with this chassis, "is not sure where the firewall is, thinks there might have to be additional steel tubing along the dash and the fuel cell is completely unprotected". I will be bringing lots of pictures from the Forum with me, but I have to say I'm a little concerned. Regarding my fuel cell, I'm planning on surrounding it with a 1" square tube cage, which essentially will enclose it, wedged up into the underneath side of the trunk area and surrounded with steel in such a way that it can't move. Has anyone had any problems with this kind of approach from SCCA? Any general recommendations on how to approach this meeting with the Tech Inspector regarding my roll cage in general?

Thanks,

Sam Stanley

[johnmdanskin]

You should contact vnmsss. Her coupe is scca approved and she can hook your tech inspector up with an inspector who -is- familiar with these cars.

The roadsters have the same situation wrt the front bars and they have no issues.

vnmsss has a rear bumper which extends structure behind the fuel cell. Scca does ask for structure behind the cell but the rules aren't very specific about this as far as I can tell. The bumper seems like a good idea...

[bbk347]

FFR had a silver and orange showroom coupe that was loaned out to one of the racing groups to be used as a pace car for a year. It met an untimely demise when an FFR employee (not me! but it could have been! that car was awesome to drive!) found out that his driving experience/ability/knowledge didn't match his helemt size! Anywho, that car had an "X" brace on the driver's side that I could actually get into and out of reasonably easily. I think Mark D may have been involved with that install and hopefully will chime in here when he gets back to the computer (he's a pretty busy guy!).

[mdjr70]

Are there any pictures of a "fuel cell cage" that anyone can point me to? Or pictures of a "rear bumper" designed for the same or similar purpose? I have thoroughly looked through the forum and I can't find anything, except for some pictures that relate to the cell that was previously sold by FFR which I am not using. Instead I am using a custom Fuel Safe cell that I designed myself. It has a top fill located near the passenger side that fits into the standard fill plate but with a custom 2" filler tube. It is 17.5" X 35.75" X 9.5" with an internal lid and floating plate. I am using a top remote fill since this is necessary to be able to fill the cell to the top if desired; and based on the design the fill will fit approx. 2.5" beneath the bottom of the stock filler cap. I will be fabricating a custom stainless filler tube to connect the two, with a hole cut in the trunk floor with a permanent cover over the hole riveted to the floor leading to a cutout in the side of the trunk. Since I have IRS the cell will easily drop straight down for servicing.

But in any event, the SCCA rules don't hardly have any requirements at all about a fuel cell cage that I can find, but only that "there must be a metal bulkhead between the driver/passenger compartment and the compartment containing the fuel cell...The fuel cell must not be installed any closer to the ground than 6", unless enclosed within the bodywork or OEM floor pan."

This leads me to believe that mounting the cell in the rear of the car is acceptable without any "cage" or "bumper". Comments?