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Old 12-13-2009, 01:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Breather Tank / System

I finally got around to installing a breather tank. The little "Ford Racing" breathers just weren't cutting it. I used billet PVC style valve cover breathers from Jeg's that I took apart and gutted the PVC valve internals. I used -8 Pro Classic lines from the breathers to the tank.

Much better now!

<alex>





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Old 12-13-2009, 01:29 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Nice work!

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Old 12-13-2009, 03:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Explain why you felt the breathers wern't cutting it. What problems did you encounter?

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Old 12-13-2009, 02:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Explain why you felt the breathers wern't cutting it. What problems did you encounter?

Bill
Inside a running engine, a small internal pressure is produced within the crankcase. This pressure is generally caused by a small leakage of combustion gasses past the piston rings, and this is known as blow-by. If this pressure is not released, the subsequent build up can cause gaskets & seals to fail, creating engine oil leaks.

Take one of your Ford Racing breathers and turn it upside down. You'll see a very small opening with just a folded flap. They aren't very effecient and don't flow much. Also, oil collects inside them then runs down over your nice polished valve covers, etc. I run a supercharger and allot more cylinder pressure.

In a standard system it vents back to the air filter, any oil expelled may be drawn back into the engine & burned. Burning oil inside a high performance engine is not recommended, and can often lead to detonation. The detonation can lead to deterioration of the piston rings which in turn will increase blow-by. The increase in blow-by will in turn make the engine expel more oil into the air filter; a vicious circle! Also, as wear occurs inside the engine due to use, piston ring blow by will increase further, again putting additional strain on the breather system.

Additional oil can be forced out of the engine due to oil surge. The forces created under hard acceleration, braking, and cornering, move the oil around the inside of the engine. A significant quantity of oil can then be forced out of the engine via the crankcase breathers.

Hope this helps....

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Old 12-13-2009, 02:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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where is the other end of you hose going. I am having or had a major blow-by on one of my boat motors. I will be tearing them down this winter so to see if there is anything wrong with them. But it is a normal setup with the hose going right to the flame arrester. The only good think there is no filter. But has been making a mess. My other engine was fine just the one. So my point is I am looking to do something anyways just not sure what right now.

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Old 12-13-2009, 03:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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AZ, nice set up. Do you have a part # from Jegs for the breathers?

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Old 12-13-2009, 03:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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THis is on my roadster, but I had the very same problem...and came up with the same solution.





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Old 12-13-2009, 03:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Black Wishbone - you might want to consider a leakdown test to see if one or all cylinders are the source (cranking compression tests won't reveal as much). You might be able to rent or borrow the test hardware needed, or have a shop do it...

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Old 12-13-2009, 03:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Nice work Alex!
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Looks sharp. I like the black braided hoses.

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Old 12-13-2009, 04:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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AZ, nice set up. Do you have a part # from Jegs for the breathers?

Jeff
Jegs part number 135-21120. The breathers are built by Billet Specialties. They are machined from 6061-T6 billet aluminum, these push-on style breathers. Available in a smooth, ball-milled or logo design.

What you have to do is screw them apart then remove the snap ring and PVC valve. Screw them back together and connect the -8 lines to the breather tank.

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Old 12-13-2009, 05:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks Alex,

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Old 12-13-2009, 07:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ken I would but that engine now is not running. The day I was pulling it, it crapped out. So the only thing I can do now is a tear down. I still want to setup a catch can of some type so it does not continue make a mess if there is a little blow-by. EPA does not like it when you empty a bilge of water and oil in to the public waters.
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Old 12-13-2009, 11:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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If you have trouble with the breather leaking at the valve cover grommet, the is a positive clamp available that supposedly stops the leaks. Install article and discussion here

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ion/index.html

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Old 12-15-2009, 02:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
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GREAT THREAD!! Can't thank you guys enough!
Ken, great article and Alec great explanation.
Should I use AN 12 or 8?
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:54 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Hi,
I see you guys with -8 line. If you don't want to have crankcase pressure in HIGH HP engines you'll need at least two -12 lines. Two -16 lines are marginal in a turbo, blower or nitrous engine.... Many oil leaks start with excessive crankcase pressure. We just ran a 440 inch SB Chevy that made 614 on the dyno. His breathers were a joke. We installed two 1" breathers and solved the problem.
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Good thread - added to my "to do" list....
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I know it is a completely different setup but this is what mine looked like. As I said be for I do want to come up with a better solution but it maybe moot point after I redo the engine.

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Old 12-16-2009, 12:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If you have trouble with the breather leaking at the valve cover grommet, the is a positive clamp available that supposedly stops the leaks. Install article and discussion here

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ion/index.html

Ken
Ken,

Good acticle. Yes they help - but the FORD Racing breathers are too restictive and that's why I replaced them. Breather Clamps are really designed to lock your existing push-in style breathers in place and eliminate separation under high RPM and high crankcase pressure situations. Positive-locking valve cover breathers are REQUIRED to meet the rules for cars (NHRA) running 7.99 seconds and faster. They rely on threaded collars that mount on the inside of the valve covers.

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Old 12-16-2009, 01:20 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Hi,
I see you guys with -8 line. If you don't want to have crankcase pressure in HIGH HP engines you'll need at least two -12 lines. Two -16 lines are marginal in a turbo, blower or nitrous engine.... Many oil leaks start with excessive crankcase pressure. We just ran a 440 inch SB Chevy that made 614 on the dyno. His breathers were a joke. We installed two 1" breathers and solved the problem.
Mike,
What’s your comment based on? I would agree in a full racing application but not so much in a street application. The – 8 lines, in my application, flow enough gas / air. Pressure is driven by windage which is primarily caused the pistons. A piston is basically an upside down bucket. Right? If you know much pressure is being created you can perform a basic Air Flow calculation and actually determine how much flow is needed. All engines make and will have some crankshaft pressure. Plus, this will vary from engine to engine, ring tension, etc.

You build race engines. I also build race engines and I race professionally. I also have a real job as a engineer at the world’s largest nuclear power plant. Here is picture of my dragster with my 598” Chevy. I run SC, Top Dragster and I currently hold the Top Comp championship in Az. I’ve also raced in the Comp Eliminator class with other dragsters that I owned and built. You would have to agree that this is the toughest class to race in.

In a racing application, such like NHRA drag racing, most basically use sort of a pan evacuation system to lower the pressure inside the oil pan and crankcase. This allows the use of low tension oil rings for increased performance, improves oil control, and reduces leakage past seals and gaskets. Drag racing pan evacuation systems use both intake manifold vacuum and exhaust pulses in the header collector to evacuate the crankcase. I’m surprised that you aren’t running a vacuum pump on your large engines.

The above still works but most, now, most racers use a belt driven vacuum pump to pull vacuum / air. Here’s a picture showing my set up with -12 lines from the valve cover to the pump and tank. On the dnyo, with this basic pump set to only 10" we made 12 extra horsepower. We also run a vacuum relief valve on the valve cover to control how much vacuum we pull. Plus, I made allot more than 614 with this engine.

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Old 12-16-2009, 04:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I thought I had a blowby problem because I thought I was getting oil out of the breathers. Every time I took the car out, I would find the intake covered with oil.... I changed the breathers to caps with nipples and ran lines to a vacuum pump which then went to a catch can.

Problem was, that wasn't the problem... turns out that when I installed the webers, the stock intake bolts wouldn't clear the linkage. I changed 4 of the bolts to studs... The oild was coming up from under the washers under the nuts on the 4 studs... A very elaborate setup to fix the wrong problem....
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
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How does the catch can drain? Manually or does it go to the oil pan somehow?
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:19 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:11 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'd like to kow how the can drains too. BTW, great thread.
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:26 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The moroso breather can I used has a petcock on the bottom of the can.
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:34 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I used 8AN bulkhead fittings trimmed to clear the valve cover baffles. Pushed the fitting into the grommet with some silicone to prevent leaks.
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Could the drain line be plumbed back to the pan?
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:55 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You're investing in what I would call a high performance engine from Levy. According to Alex's explanation regarding degraded oil particles/byproducts, you would not want to recirc into oil system. I was told that these "dirty" particles/byproducts go into catch can and needs to be emptied every once in awhile if driving on street. The catch can needs to be emptied if racing-more strenuous conditions causing engine/oil to become hotter.
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Old 12-17-2009, 11:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Could the drain line be plumbed back to the pan?
Even given midlife's response, you can drain back to the pan, and it's not necessarily a bad thing to do, as any "Heavy" materials will most likely not remain airborne long enough to travel the distance. I would suggest a drain back through the fuel pump filler plate, if using a EFI system, no incursion into the pan, and relatively easy to engineer. You would also want to have a vent exiting the fuel pump cover, to relieve pressure that would other wise try to push oil to the catch can. The vent would have to be on the scale of a -6 or -8. and the return a -4 or -6, dependent on the vent size.

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The Tire Rack

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