Spindle destroyed? - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Spindle destroyed?

Coming back from Open House last weekend, I was 4 miles from home when there was a loud 'crack' and the steering went immediately wobbly. I braked a little and felt the front left decidedly not well. Changed down quickly and pulled to the side of the road (NY Taconic State Parkway). Couldn't see anything obviously wrong so tried moving a little - a horrendous grinding sound indicated serious issues.

AAA couldn't help me as the parkway is restricted access, so a call to our friendly NY State Troopers and a tow truck later, I made it home.

Up on the lift and my fears were confirmed - the outer wheel bearing was toast.

Today I pulled the entire assembly to see how bad it is. There was all but nothing left of the bearing and the condition of the race on the rotor leaves me thinking I'm going to have to replace it.




Not only that, but the bearing appears to have welded itself to the spindle. I used a diamond cutting wheel on a Dremel to delicately cut through it but it's just not going to come off. I managed to break a small piece off and what's left of the spindle looks like it would need major attention before being usable with a new bearing.



Looking for advice. Should I attempt to get the bearing off with a torch? Or continue to cut it piece by piece and, assuming I can actually get it all off, sand and polish the spindle?

Or is it too far gone and I should replace the spindle?

As to why it failed, I'm not sure. I removed the right side to check and it looks ... OK. I don't like that there doesn't appear to be much grease on the outer bearing, not sure why, but that could certainly explain what happened to the other one. Both inner bearings are swimming in grease.


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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 10:07 PM
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Replace it. Good used Fox spindles are a dime a dozen.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 10:20 PM
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Wow glad you made it w/o physical injury. I traveled the parkway for decades and Those pot holes on the Taconic are killers .
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 12:09 AM
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At least you were close to home! I have a spindle if you need it, I might have a rotor as well, you can probably get away with a new bearings and races on the rotor.

Mike
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.8Cobra View Post
At least you were close to home! I have a spindle if you need it, I might have a rotor as well, you can probably get away with a new bearings and races on the rotor.

Mike
If it's simple/cheap to replace the race it would be worth it, the rotors are barely used. Where would one go for something like that?

Looks like you're about an hour away from me - will PM you. I might have to visit just to see what 650RWHP looks like!

J.

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 12:59 AM
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Hard to know exactly 'why' it happened but most likely either under or over torqued(pretty vague, huh?). Over torque burns up bearings REALLY fast since there isn't enough tolerance between the bearing and race and no amount of grease can protect it from the friction/heat. Not torqued enough means the bearings wobble inside the race and eventually just pulverize themselves. It's hard to see from the pics but if the race looks welded on I'd think over-tightened which produced intense heat.
If it was me, I'd replace the whole spindle. It's a relatively small cost to make sure that the new races will fit perfectly. It also looks like the spindle got so hot that it partially melted the seal that rides further up on the spindle. You can clean that up, but if it's not smooth, you'll tear up a new seal. On this note, make sure you replace the seal along with the inner bearing and seal in the hub.

Good luck with the fix!

-TJ
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 12:59 AM
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Pickup bearings and race sets at any auto parts store.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 01:11 AM
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Replace the spindle

Being a very old FORD mechanic that worked brakes, steering and suspension, I'd replace the spindle - they get brittle when heated to those extremes and can later snap off at the rear bearing junction.

New bearings sets (and grease seals) are available from many auto parts stores and FORD - rotors would be unaffected by this bearing issue.

Just make sure that ALL the metal particles are removed from the hub when you go to replace the bearing races.

Doc

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 05:23 PM
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Had the same thing happen on many trailers through the years. always change the spindle if it gets damaged.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 03:24 AM
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I have 3 left and 4 right spindles that were acquired with the MK3 that I purchased. Also have a ton of bearings and races and seals that are still in boxes. I am running all SN95 components so these are just collecting dust and are in the way.
Let me know what you want and they are yours, just pay for the ride.


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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I have 3 left and 4 right spindles that were acquired with the MK3 that I purchased. Also have a ton of bearings and races and seals that are still in boxes. I am running all SN95 components so these are just collecting dust and are in the way.
Let me know what you want and they are yours, just pay for the ride.


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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 03:35 PM
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Don't take this wrong,and maybe you do, but a lot of people don't know how to pack bearings with grease.
Also bearing should be adjusted not just "tightened"up. I also dont know if these were new or used parts when installed and how many miles were on the bearings. The bearing races in the rotor can be easily replaced as long as the race is not spinning in the hub. If they are spinning , replace the rotor/hub. Best to replace the spindle. And of course the bearings and seal. I have friends that bought a bearing packer, I just don't trust them, only takes few minutes to correctly pack them by hand.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Don't take this wrong,and maybe you do, but a lot of people don't know how to pack bearings with grease.
Also bearing should be adjusted not just "tightened"up. I also dont know if these were new or used parts when installed and how many miles were on the bearings. The bearing races in the rotor can be easily replaced as long as the race is not spinning in the hub. If they are spinning , replace the rotor/hub. Best to replace the spindle. And of course the bearings and seal. I have friends that bought a bearing packer, I just don't trust them, only takes few minutes to correctly pack them by hand.
Kenny
It's a very valid question and that I may have not packed the bearing properly was one of the first things that I thought of, particularly when I took the right wheel off and found little grease on the outer bearing there - I did them by hand but will redo all 4 front bearings again using a packing tool; will also investigate 'bearing adjustment' - thanks for the tip. The inner bearings on both had plenty of grease on them but perhaps they're subject to different conditions and the outer ones are more susceptible?

I'll admit that having the bearing fail in only 1200 miles has certainly made me question my abilities elsewhere in the build.

Thanks to the generosity of 5.8Cobra and Roadwrench I have replacement spindle, rotor, and bearings on the way - thank you both!

FFR6243RD, MkIII, 3.55, IRS, pin-drive width, carb'd 351W, T5, 1/2 dropped butt, Fortes hydraulic clutch, deep dish AC-III wheels by Team III. 9 year build; NY registered 7/18/2016 - "Sweet 16" winner at 2016 Taconic State Nationals 5 days later ... in 'rough as hell' gel coat for the foreseeable future!

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks to the generosity of 5.8Cobra and Roadwrench I have replacement spindle, rotor, and bearings on the way - thank you both!
The generosity of this forum's members is fantastic; thanks to you both for helping a brother builder out.


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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:11 PM
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Check out this video



Use a quality wheel bearing grease not chassis lube !

Kenny
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 10:19 PM
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I searched high and low in my pile o parts and I could only come up with a passenger side.... So the search is still on. Sorry for holding you up.

Mike

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
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Check out this video


How To Pack A Wheel Bearing - YouTube

Use a quality wheel bearing grease not chassis lube !

Kenny
Been packing bearing that way for over 50 years, never a failure due to lack of grease.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 02:07 AM
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Left side spindle will be on its way Monday morning.


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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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After about an hour of tap...tap...tap...rotate...tap...tap...tap...rotat e the race is finally out. A hydraulic press likely somewhat easier. A can of Brakleaner ready ... next step clean up the rotor.

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2017, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Got the tie rod and upper adaptor out easily, of course the lower ball joint is giving me grief. Tried a pickle fork (now I need a new dust boot) and a soaking in PBBlaster. Tried hammering from underneath and also each side of where the ball joint goes in.

Looks like I'm going to need a bigger hammer.

UPDATE: Decided to get a ball joint separator instead ... and found that I already had a set of Energy boots in my 'parts cabinet'.


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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-19-2017, 09:29 PM
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The new spindle is on the way to you!


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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 05:49 AM
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Same thing happened to mine. Clearly over-torqued. Attached is a picture taken after I cut the race off of the spindle and cleaned it up. It was bone dry and there is no doubt that it was originally lubricated correctly, because I have been doing this for decades. I can only assume that the heat was so great that the grease flashed off or turned to liquid and flowed out. The race in the hub wasn't even moist, and when the bearing froze, the race spun in the hub and ground the female surface of the hub, so when I pulled it off, silver powder ran out. Weird. Had to replace spindle and hub.
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File Type: jpg P1020414 sz40.jpg (191.1 KB, 20 views)

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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 10:26 AM
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Bring one of these.Only takes a second to see whats going on. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Temperatu...ometer&veh=sem
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 11:27 AM
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Bring one of these.Only takes a second to see whats going on. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Temperatu...ometer&veh=sem
I have had one of these for years. Great tool. I found out I had a rear brake dragging. Temp on 3 wheels was at 120 and the right rear was at 220. The PO had not spaced the rear caliper correctly.

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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 12:24 PM
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I have had one of these for years. Great tool. I found out I had a rear brake dragging. Temp on 3 wheels was at 120 and the right rear was at 220. The PO had not spaced the rear caliper correctly.
Exactly the same problem I had on my Silverado right rear
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