Help! My brain melts every time I start wiring the Coyote engine... - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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Help! My brain melts every time I start wiring the Coyote engine...

Warning - This may turn into an endless stream of questions around wiring the Coyote engine with the Ron Francis harness.... you have been warned! Thanks in advance for your patience!

We have a 2014 Coyote engine, Ron Francis Wiring harness and FFR SpeedHut gauges. I've read a dozen or so posts (including Jeff's) and my brain melts every time I try to map what I read to what is on the car. I've read through the Factory Five Manual, the FFR Coyote installation manual, the Ron Francis manual and the FFR gauge installation manual and I'm more confused now than when I started.

First question is on Page 92 of the FFR Coyote installation manual. It says to find the Purple tach wire in the sending unit plug and cut it so that the engine harness can get connected to the Purple wire. There's a picture of a wire and a plug which I can't find anywhere in our setup. Now I did manage to find a length of purple wire attached to a plug in the engine harness (harness is labeled Sending Unit and the wire is labeled Coil -> Tach). It's not coming out of a plug though, it's coming out of the side of a harness. There's no end on it so cutting it doesn't make any sense. There are no yellow wires anywhere to be found in this area however.

Now I also found another purple wire inside the firewall / dashboard area with the same markings (Coil -> Tach) so I'm assuming it's the other end. There IS a yellow wire coming out of the Tach so I'm assuming that's where I connect THIS end of the Purple wire. Correct?

If that's the case, where does the other longer end of the Purple wire marked Coil -> Tach get plugged in? I went through all of the instructions and couldn't find it (although my brain may have melted partway through).

Other questions - The Tach has a short Yellow / Green wire coming out of it then a white plug which connects to a much longer yellow wire (I assume the yellow wire above I'm supposed to connect to the Purple wire). How is best to connect this? It seems like the yellow wire with the white plug on one end is long and useless. Now I could splice the yellow wire to the purple one (Yellow/Green -> White connectors -> yellow -> solder to purple), or I ditch the yellow wire and cut the white plug off the end of the Yellow/Green wire and direct solder these two, or instead of direct soldering them I could replace the white connector on the Yellow/Green wire with a spade connector and connect it to the female spade connector on the purple wire. Which makes sense?

Lastly, there are a whole bunch of female->female spade connectors in the box labeled "Gauge Feed" and "Ground". I don't see anything in the instructions on what to do with these? I see no female spade connectors to connect these to? Perhaps some of the switches? But what would I connect to the other end of them?

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 03:41 AM
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Take a look at this thread for a few answers
RF harness and FFR Speedhut Vintage Gauges

I did not have all those small spaded jump wires with my harness, but if you are using the vintage gauges I don't think you need them.

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 04:17 AM
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Easy question first. As mentioned, ditch the short lengths of white wires with spade connectors. Not needed for your setup.

For your tach connection, first a general observation. From the larger picture of your dash wiring and engine compartment it looks like you're plugging the provided Speedhut cables directly onto the gauges and routing them into the engine compartment. Maybe you're only doing that temporarily. But if not I would suggest instead using the provided RF dash harness. You mentioned it before in the question about the light circuits. It has connections for each of the gauges. Then make the various connections to the engine compartment using the sending unit leg coming out of the main harness.

For the actual tach connection, don't use the Speedhut cable. Cut the connector off the gauge and attach the purple RF coil-tach wire in the dash harness to it. Then find the RF coil-tach wire in the sending unit harness leg as explained and pictured in the instructions, and attach to the Coyote harness tach wire. Hopefully that makes sense and seems logical to get the Coyote tach signal to the gauge.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdav View Post
Take a look at this thread for a few answers
RF harness and FFR Speedhut Vintage Gauges
Not sure how I missed that thread! Oh yeah, my brain was melted. Let me pour through that after work.

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Originally Posted by jdav View Post
I did not have all those small spaded jump wires with my harness, but if you are using the vintage gauges I don't think you need them.
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Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
Easy question first. As mentioned, ditch the short lengths of white wires with spade connectors. Not needed for your setup.
Phew - it's so painful to have extra pieces, my brain just wants to find a way to make them work. Knowing their not needed will hopefully free my brain to follow the instructions without trying to randomly insert these pieces in. Anything else I need to ditch (I think Edward mentions the SpeedHut tach cable below...)

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Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
For your tach connection, first a general observation. From the larger picture of your dash wiring and engine compartment it looks like you're plugging the provided Speedhut cables directly onto the gauges and routing them into the engine compartment. Maybe you're only doing that temporarily. But if not I would suggest instead using the provided RF dash harness. You mentioned it before in the question about the light circuits. It has connections for each of the gauges. Then make the various connections to the engine compartment using the sending unit leg coming out of the main harness.
Just laying it out as spread out as possible.

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Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
For the actual tach connection, don't use the Speedhut cable. Cut the connector off the gauge and attach the purple RF coil-tach wire in the dash harness to it.
Got it!

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Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
Then find the RF coil-tach wire in the sending unit harness leg as explained and pictured in the instructions, and attach to the Coyote harness tach wire. Hopefully that makes sense and seems logical to get the Coyote tach signal to the gauge.
Don't got it! I THINK found the purple wire in the sending unit harness leg. The instruction say I need to cut it off of a plug but it's not connected to a plug, it's just coming out of the wiring harness (pictured above). Ia that the right wire? I don't know where to connect it to on the Coyote harness. The picture shows it being attached to a yellow wire, but I don't see any yellow wires around there. I looked through your threads but the 2015 is different (I believe), I think you connected it to the wires going to the spark plugs. I've attached the picture I see in the manual.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TallerMike View Post
Don't got it! I THINK found the purple wire in the sending unit harness leg. The instruction say I need to cut it off of a plug but it's not connected to a plug, it's just coming out of the wiring harness (pictured above). Ia that the right wire? I don't know where to connect it to on the Coyote harness. The picture shows it being attached to a yellow wire, but I don't see any yellow wires around there. I looked through your threads but the 2015 is different (I believe), I think you connected it to the wires going to the spark plugs. I've attached the picture I see in the manual.
I don't have an RF harness in front of me, so can't verify exactly where the tach wire FF pictures is located. I think they're showing between the dash harness connector and the sending unit connector. But don't overthink it. The sending unit bundle has a purple coil-tach wire loose at the end along with the oil pressure, oil temp, water temp, and fan thermo switch wires. You can just use that loose end to connect to the Coyote harness. Assuming you have the purple coil-tach wire from the RF dash harness connected to the Speedhut gauge sending wire, you're good.

You're right. My Coyote was a 2015+ version and the Controls Pack doesn't have a tach connection. So those of using that version have to make our own. Not too nice. But your setup has a direct connection. Looking at the Ford Performance instructions, it's "Blunt Lead 5 - CTO (Tan/Yellow): This wire is the tachometer lead." This is the yellow wire FF is referring to. Page 14 of the M-6017-A504V Electronic Throttle Crate Engine Controls Pack Instruction Sheet. On other pages there are diagrams of the two different Coyote harnesses in your version. There are several other connections to this blunt lead harness that you need to connect in order for the Coyote to operate. They're in the FF instructions.

Seems one of the major confusion points is the FF Coyote instructions don't always make it 100% clear whether they're talking about the RF harness or the Coyote harness. Try to get that sorted out and maybe that will help overall. I found using only the FF Coyote instructions wasn't quite enough. I also studied the Ford instructions very carefully. Plus the RF harness schematic. Between those sources, it all eventually adds up.

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Last edited by edwardb; 05-19-2017 at 01:04 PM.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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We're working through these today!

Came up with another question as we cycled through the manual. It says to ground one of the green wires. Is this in the wrong section? It says thermostat but it's in the engine control fan section. If we're having the engine control the fan do we need to do this and if so what green wire are we grounding?


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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 04:40 PM
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I just went through this wiring on a build that I'm helping with. I would not ditch the gauge wiring harness that came with the gauges because you only have three or four connections to make to complete the circuits. The gauges I am working with on this build came with the cables to the various senders and all were used except the tank sending one.

If you take the FFR manual wiring steps one at a time for connecting the Ford Racing harness to the RF harness, it will work. However, the RF harness I'm working with fits the 33 Hot Rod as well and has a lot of extra wire and connections that is not needed. PM me and I can help walk you through it.

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TallerMike View Post
We're working through these today!

Came up with another question as we cycled through the manual. It says to ground one of the green wires. Is this in the wrong section? It says thermostat but it's in the engine control fan section. If we're having the engine control the fan do we need to do this and if so what green wire are we grounding?
What you're referencing is in the Ron Francis chassis wiring instructions. You need to be following the fan connection instructions in the FF Coyote installation instructions. There it shows two ways: (1) Having the Coyote PDB control the relay in the RF panel (they list the pluses and minuses of this approach) or (2) Having the Coyote PDB control the fan directly, completely taking the RF panel out of the loop. I personally chose option 2 for my 2015+ plus build because the main negative FF cited (access to the relay and fuse) is not an issue with the 2015 PDB if installed on the firewall as I did. You can review and decide what will work best for your installation.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What you're referencing is in the Ron Francis chassis wiring instructions. You need to be following the fan connection instructions in the FF Coyote installation instructions. There it shows two ways: (1) Having the Coyote PDB control the relay in the RF panel (they list the pluses and minuses of this approach) or (2) Having the Coyote PDB control the fan directly, completely taking the RF panel out of the loop. I personally chose option 2 for my 2015+ plus build because the main negative FF cited (access to the relay and fuse) is not an issue with the 2015 PDB if installed on the firewall as I did. You can review and decide what will work best for your installation.


So we chose option 1 and must have gotten the books mixed up. The Coyote manual has a picture in it of a plug that doesn't match our harness. There is no orange wire in the chassis harness plug. So we ended up following the Ron Francis one which shows us connecting the red wire from the fuse panel to the orange wire. We did that... not sure now if that was a mistake? Ugh...


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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 03:26 AM Thread Starter
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I just went through this wiring on a build that I'm helping with. I would not ditch the gauge wiring harness that came with the gauges because you only have three or four connections to make to complete the circuits.
I think the only harness sort of thing that came with the gauges is the daisy chain connectors for the power and the lighting. That we are keeping and I think that's pretty straightforward to connect.

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The gauges I am working with on this build came with the cables to the various senders and all were used except the tank sending one.
From what we're read (and above) it sounds like the suggestion from others is not to use these sender wires, that the Ron Francis harness already has the sending wires in it and labeled. Since we already have these laid out around the car we're going to use those leads and plan to connect the gauges to the dash harness, which connects to the main harness, which connects to the sensor feeds. It seems that there are a dozen ways to do this whole thing and none of them are right or wrong but they do all conflict.

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If you take the FFR manual wiring steps one at a time for connecting the Ford Racing harness to the RF harness, it will work. However, the RF harness I'm working with fits the 33 Hot Rod as well and has a lot of extra wire and connections that is not needed. PM me and I can help walk you through it.
Ugh... maybe it's just us but walking through the Factory Five manual hasn't been successful. We'll definitely ping you if we get stuck.

We're hoping to get enough connected so that we can start the engine and then work on tackling one plug / sensor / light / accessory at a time.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 06:45 AM
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You will want the tach and oil pressure gauges working before the first start and if you plan on running it very long, the water temp as well. Good luck on the first start.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 11:57 AM
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So we chose option 1 and must have gotten the books mixed up. The Coyote manual has a picture in it of a plug that doesn't match our harness. There is no orange wire in the chassis harness plug. So we ended up following the Ron Francis one which shows us connecting the red wire from the fuse panel to the orange wire. We did that... not sure now if that was a mistake? Ugh...
Thought about this a little more and figured out what the problem is. There are two versions (at least...) of the RF wiring harness. There was an orange fan cooling wire in the dash harness before. Went to a cooling fan switch on the dash. But the newer harness version changed the cooling fan wiring quite a bit. It's now a battery circuit (always on) and the wiring to/from the dash has been eliminated. There is no longer an orange fan wire. Out of the box, it's intended to only be switched by a thermo sensor on the engine. Unfortunately, FF's Coyote installation instructions, even the latest version including the 2015+ Coyote, still show the old RF harness which they haven't shipped for a couple of years. Obviously this can be very confusing.

Personally, my recommendation is to forgo using the RF harness for the cooling fan. Route the orange and black fan connection in the Coyote main harness directly to the cooling fan. Your Ford Controls Pack instructions also show attaching a ring terminal for the orange cooling fan wire inside the PDB. Wired this way, the Coyote system will completely control the cooling fan. The relay and fuse for the fan will be inside the PDB, which FF lists as a disadvantage. But I would recommend keeping the PDB as accessible as possible since there are other fuses in there as well. For your version of the Coyote, typically the PDB is placed behind the dash, which I'm assuming you're doing. Just put it where you can get to it if needed. Note wired this way the RF cooling fan circuit is completely unused. You can just tie the wires out of the way and ignore it. Or you could use it to power something else.

Hope that helps. I'm honestly running out of ideas and a little reluctant to give too much more advice since I don't have personal experience with your Coyote version. Perhaps others who have installed the earlier Coyote (with the latest RF harness version!) can weigh in and give their advice. Good luck.

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Thought about this a little more and figured out what the problem is. There are two versions (at least...) of the RF wiring harness. There was an orange fan cooling wire in the dash harness before. Went to a cooling fan switch on the dash. But the newer harness version changed the cooling fan wiring quite a bit. It's now a battery circuit (always on) and the wiring to/from the dash has been eliminated. There is no longer an orange fan wire. Out of the box, it's intended to only be switched by a thermo sensor on the engine. Unfortunately, FF's Coyote installation instructions, even the latest version including the 2015+ Coyote, still show the old RF harness which they haven't shipped for a couple of years. Obviously this can be very confusing.

Personally, my recommendation is to forgo using the RF harness for the cooling fan. Route the orange and black fan connection in the Coyote main harness directly to the cooling fan. Your Ford Controls Pack instructions also show attaching a ring terminal for the orange cooling fan wire inside the PDB. Wired this way, the Coyote system will completely control the cooling fan. The relay and fuse for the fan will be inside the PDB, which FF lists as a disadvantage. But I would recommend keeping the PDB as accessible as possible since there are other fuses in there as well. For your version of the Coyote, typically the PDB is placed behind the dash, which I'm assuming you're doing. Just put it where you can get to it if needed. Note wired this way the RF cooling fan circuit is completely unused. You can just tie the wires out of the way and ignore it. Or you could use it to power something else.

Hope that helps. I'm honestly running out of ideas and a little reluctant to give too much more advice since I don't have personal experience with your Coyote version. Perhaps others who have installed the earlier Coyote (with the latest RF harness version!) can weigh in and give their advice. Good luck.
Ugh - this explains so much! At least we're not crazy. Well...

We've cut the black wire already. We'll try to bring that back out and see if we can't extend it. I guess we could cut the connector off of the Ron Francis harness and solder it onto the ends of the black / orange wires from the Coyote harness. Sad because the Ron Francis one is already over there and attached, not to mention we already cut one of the ones we needed! Oh well, live and learn.
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You will want the tach and oil pressure gauges working before the first start and if you plan on running it very long, the water temp as well. Good luck on the first start.
What does the tach wire connect to on the engine to get its signal from? We found the purple tach wire on the harness but following that wire just brings us to a bare end sticking out. Even if we used the tach lead coming off of the tach gauge instead of the ones on the wiring harness we'd need to connect it to something to get signal and we're both a bit confused about what exactly that is.
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What does the tach wire connect to on the engine to get its signal from? We found the purple tach wire on the harness but following that wire just brings us to a bare end sticking out. Even if we used the tach lead coming off of the tach gauge instead of the ones on the wiring harness we'd need to connect it to something to get signal and we're both a bit confused about what exactly that is.
,

OK, I this we figured it out based on this post where to connect the tach wires.

Tach & Speedo wires?
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 04:01 PM
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OK, I this we figured it out based on this post where to connect the tach wires.

Tach & Speedo wires?
Right. That link has the same information as post #4 in this thread. Your RF tach wire goes to the Coyote Blunt Lead 5 - CTO (Tan/Yellow).

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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Right. That link has the same information as post #4 in this thread. Your RF tach wire goes to the Coyote Blunt Lead 5 - CTO (Tan/Yellow).
You're right - too many tabs open trying to figure this out. We made the connection to what you were talking about only after reading the linked thread which is exactly the same thing you were saying. I guess it just sort of clicked when we found the wire. We're muddling through it, thanks for your help and patience!!!
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 05:44 PM
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The tach wire is confusing because The FFR instruction have you connect Ford
controls tach wire to the purple coil/tach wire in the RF harness which doesn't sound intuitive. This gave me fits until I traced the purple wire through the RF harness schematic. It goes through a couple of connectors and comes out a few inches away in the portion of the harness that is labeled gauges. The only advantage to connecting it to the purple wire rather than directly to the tach is the convenience of the connectors in the harness should they be needed to disconnect the dash.
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