RF harness and FFR Speedhut Vintage Gauges - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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RF harness and FFR Speedhut Vintage Gauges

Ok so getting to wiring and want to clean things up a bit. The RF harness is obviously for the base kit and/or autometer gauges that I can tell.

I have the FFR vintage speedhut.

Want to use some of the sender wires in the RF harness that are already there - fuel sender and ground for sure. Others I am not as sure as all the speedhut sensors have signal and ground... where as traditionally I have thought these were grounded through the treads (oil temp, water temp, fuel pressure, oil pressure...).

Question: to use the connectors in the RF harness, can I use the sending wires that are in the RF harness for these signal wires and count on the sensors being grounded to the engine block or are these sensors not made that way and both wire need to be routed all the way back to the dash?

I know the easy answer is probably run the full gauge set wires but seems like a lot of extra wires.... or I guess I diet the RF harness down...

Any feedback is appreciated.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 03:50 PM
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The Speedhut/FFR Classic gauges use 2 wire senders while the RF harness is set up for one wire so I recommend doing kind of a hybrid. You'll need to power up all of the gauges on their red wire by connecting them to the brown "gauge feed" wire in the harness. Also connect the black "ground" wire in the dash harness to each of the gauges' black wires. You will carry the tachometer signal from the coil on the purple "coil-tach" wire that runs all the way through in the sending units subharness. The speedo signal comes through the green and gray wires which will join the yellow/red and yellow/black wires on the gauge. Polarity is not important as it is only counting pulses. For the coolant temperature and oil pressure gauges run the long pigtail with the yellow/red and yellow/black wires to their respective senders. Once again polarity is not an issue because these are reading resistance. The voltmeter has no sender, the gauge power and ground give it all it needs. Fuel gauge connects to the light green "gas sender" wire. I recommend powering the clock from the red "radio memory" wire. That will get everything working!

Next move on to gauge lighting. The white wire from all of the gauges connects to the RF harness white "dash lights" wire. If you have the seperate dimmer module the white harness "dash lights" wire connects to the input of the dimmer; the dimmer's black ground connects to the black harness ground. From there the dimmers output snaps into the connectors for the lighter gauge wire. It seems redundant but is this way because the needles are lighted independently from the gauge face and are not dimmed. If you do not have the dimmer module then the small white wire at the end of the snap together chain also connects to the harness "dash lights" wire. By the way, before you drive yourself crazy thinking something is wrong the hands on the clock are not lighted.

Hope that helps,
Jeff

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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This is exactly what I was hoping and looking for to use what I can from the RF harness... thanks Jeff!


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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:59 PM
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Jeff,
In my RF harness, I have 5 white wires marked "dash lights" - 2 sets of 2 that are crimped into a female spade connector and 1 solo.
I also have 5 black ground wires - 1 solo marked INT LT GRND, 1 pair (in a spade connector) with both marked GROUND and 1 pair with 1 marked GRND and the other marked INT LT GRND
And finally 2 brown GAUGE FEED wires - 1 as a bare wire and 1 with a plug

Do I use any specific set? Or does it not matter? Or do I splice all together?

And then to confirm, the yellow with green stripe wire from the volts gauge does not get plugged in to anything?
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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I dieted all the crimped connectors to just have 1 gauge feed and 1 ground to simplify as the speedhut ones can piggyback. The way I understand it, the yellow wire on the volt meter also goes to gauge feed along with the reds as this powers all the gauges needles (red) but also reads the voltage (yellow)....


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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockOn View Post
I dieted all the crimped connectors to just have 1 gauge feed and 1 ground to simplify as the speedhut ones can piggyback. The way I understand it, the yellow wire on the volt meter also goes to gauge feed along with the reds as this powers all the gauges needles (red) but also reads the voltage (yellow)....
Agreed. With the Speedhut gauges you can simplify the gauge feeds and grounds. Diet out what you don't need. They all come from the same source in the harness. The voltmeter sense wire can go to any ignition switched wire. It just needs to read the voltage on the harness. The gauge feed wire is as good as any.

Be careful about the gauge needles though. Those should use one of the white gauge lighting feeds. The Speedhut gauges have two light circuits. One for the needles and one for the backlighting that goes through the supplied inverter. Both should be fed from the RF harness by the white gauge lighting feed wires. That way they are turned on/off with the headlight switch.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:00 AM
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Great. The other items that come with the gauges: water/oil/trans temp wire and plug, oils wire and sensor, tach wire and fuel level wire are not needed? (I know I need the gps sensor for the speedo)

Sorry to hijack your thread, but this is very timely for me.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:06 AM Thread Starter
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Careful. The guidance from Jeff below is to hybrid it. I think based on the way those gauges work, it's best to use the cables for the oil temp, oil pressure, and water temp.... I'd gladly take more input as well. I have an oil pressure and water temp line that come off my EFI ECU and would love to just use those but I think the sensor needs to ground wire. I think fuel level, volt, tach, and speedo (if not GPS) along with the dash power and grounds are the ones from the RF to use.


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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 03:08 AM Thread Starter
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EdwardB - agreed I looked at the gauges again. Got it. Black daisy looped chain is gauge back light and yes the thin white for needle power. Red for gauge power and of course blk for ground.... yellow volt could be feed by Red or the brown gauge feed I guess from the RF harness. Thx for the input.


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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdav View Post
Great. The other items that come with the gauges: water/oil/trans temp wire and plug, oils wire and sensor, tach wire and fuel level wire are not needed? (I know I need the gps sensor for the speedo)
Quote:
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Careful. The guidance from Jeff below is to hybrid it. I think based on the way those gauges work, it's best to use the cables for the oil temp, oil pressure, and water temp.... I'd gladly take more input as well. I have an oil pressure and water temp line that come off my EFI ECU and would love to just use those but I think the sensor needs to ground wire. I think fuel level, volt, tach, and speedo (if not GPS) along with the dash power and grounds are the ones from the RF to use.
Agree use the Speedhut supplied cables for their sending units with plugs (e.g. water temp, oil temp) and optionally the oil pressure sending unit with spade or ring connectors. The Speedhut cables can be grafted to the RF wires wherever you like, although I prefer to do that behind the dash. All require a ground wire which can be routed to ground wherever you graft the cable. The balance can be wired directly to the RF harness as described, e.g. fuel tank sender, tach, etc. Hope I didn't miss any.


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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 05:34 PM
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Ok, I'm still not entirely clear, so please correct me if I'm wrong

Speedo:
black with dashes gets plugged into the black with dashes daisy chain
Black/red/white gets plugged into the black/red/white daisy chain
Red with black (hot start) is connected to the RF speedo-clock-mem
Green with red (right turn) is connected to the RF light blue Rt dash indicator
Green with orange (left turn) is connected to the RF green Lt dash indicator
Blue with white (high beams) is connected to the RF brown hi beam indicator

Tach:
black with dashes gets plugged into the black with dashes daisy chain
Black/red/white gets plugged into the black/red/white daisy chain
Yellow with green is plugged in to the RF purple coil-tach wire
Purple tach wire is connected to the coil of the coyote

Clock:
black with dashes gets plugged into the black with dashes daisy chain
Black goes to RF ground
Red goes to RF red Speedo-clock-mem

Volts:
black with dashes gets plugged into the black with dashes daisy chain
Black/red/white gets plugged into the black/red/white daisy chain
yellow with green goes to the RF brown gauge feed

Water:
black with dashes gets plugged into the black with dashes daisy chain
Black/red/white gets plugged into the black/red/white daisy chain
Yellow with black & yellow with red gets plugged into the RF blue (water temp) & black (ground) plug
From the sending units harness, i connect the speedhut water/oil/trans wire to the blue (water temp) and black (ground) wires and then the brass plug is inserted

Oil:
black with dashes gets plugged into the black with dashes daisy chain
Black/red/white gets plugged into the black/red/white daisy chain
Yellow with black & yellow with red gets plugged into the RF gray (oil pressure ) & black (ground) plug
From the sending units harness, i connect the speedhut oil psi wire to the gray (oil pressure) and black (ground) wires and then the psi unit is inserted

Fuel
black with dashes gets plugged into the black with dashes daisy chain
Black/red/white gets plugged into the black/red/white daisy chain
Yellow with black & yellow with red gets plugged into the RF green (gas sender) & black (ground) plug
From the rear harness, Fuel level sender is plugged in
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 01:20 PM
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I should add that I have the newer version of the FFR vintage gauges that have the turn signal and high beam indicator lights built in.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdav View Post
Speedo:
black with dashes gets plugged into the black with dashes daisy chain
Black/red/white gets plugged into the black/red/white daisy chain
Red with black (hot start) is connected to the RF speedo-clock-mem
Green with red (right turn) is connected to the RF light blue Rt dash indicator
Green with orange (left turn) is connected to the RF green Lt dash indicator
Blue with white (high beams) is connected to the RF brown hi beam indicator
Are you sure you want to connect the Red with black (hot start) to the RF radio memory? That means the GPS speedometer will constantly draw current from the battery.

Full disclosure: I don't have the GPS speedometer, so I don't know what its current draw would be. It's very possible the draw is negligible.


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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phileas_fogg View Post
Are you sure you want to connect the Red with black (hot start) to the RF radio memory? That means the GPS speedometer will constantly draw current from the battery.

Full disclosure: I don't have the GPS speedometer, so I don't know what its current draw would be. It's very possible the draw is negligible.


John
Nope, not sure at all!
Anyone know where that one should be (and if the rest of my notes are correct)?
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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I wouldn't do that due to battery draw but the directions do say that as an option for faster satellite acquisition...


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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by phileas_fogg View Post
Are you sure you want to connect the Red with black (hot start) to the RF radio memory? That means the GPS speedometer will constantly draw current from the battery.

Full disclosure: I don't have the GPS speedometer, so I don't know what its current draw would be. It's very possible the draw is negligible.

John
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Nope, not sure at all!
Anyone know where that one should be (and if the rest of my notes are correct)?
From Speedhut's instructions:

"4. Hot start feature is optional. Hooking up the Hot start wire to constant +12volts allows GPS to quickly acquire satellites in less than 2 seconds. This feature saves your current satellite position within the speedometer enabling it to quickly restore your position on power up.

Please note that if the speedometer has been powered off longer than 4 hours, it could take up to 1 minute to acquire signal due to satellites moving significantly from your location. This is normal.

The 25 micro-amp current draw is extremely low and will have virtually zero impact on a car battery’s charge. Hotsart wire should be connected directly to battery +12 voltage and should remain powered 100% of the time."

In practice now that I've been driving mine for several weeks, and I do have the GPS hot start wire powered, the speedo initializes within a few seconds. Usually by the time the car is started and I back out of the garage, it's done. Probably before that but I'm not staring at it. Twice though I have noticed it took the minute or so mentioned. Not a big deal. I'm fine with how it works.

Regarding the rest of the notes for the Speedhut hookup, looks OK. One comment though. Are you planning a master disconnect? If so using the RF memory wires will be switched off with the master disconnect unless you use a keep alive jumper of some kind. Since you're installing a Coyote, if it's a 2015+ version and you leave the PDB powered at all times per the Ford instructions, I'd recommend using the Coyote HAAT (Hot At All Times) connections for the clock and GPS. As long as you have the battery connected, they will always have power.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 10:52 PM
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Thanks Edwardb

I am not planning on a master disconnect, so I assume the radio mem will work just fine for my application.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 12:19 AM
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Thanks Edwardb

I am not planning on a master disconnect, so I assume the radio mem will work just fine for my application.
You're welcome. Yes, the radio memory will work for your setup. Good luck getting that wiring wrapped up.

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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 02:07 AM
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You're welcome. Yes, the radio memory will work for your setup. Good luck getting that wiring wrapped up.
Now on to trying to figure out the Russ Thompson turn signal!
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Right with you.... since there are already turn signal and a horn relay, I'm struggling to understand why you need 2 more of them for the RT lever to function properly...


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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 12:50 PM
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Right with you.... since there are already turn signal and a horn relay, I'm struggling to understand why you need 2 more of them for the RT lever to function properly...
You don't. The RT turn signal assembly is an electrically simple device that provides a SPDT switch for turn signals replacing the dash mounted SPDT switch provided in the kit. The wiring for the turn signals is exactly the same as shown in the RF schematic, except now you have a self-cancelling column lever vs. a dash switch.

The RT turn signal assembly also provides a momentary switch that you can use for whatever you want. Some use it for the horn switch. Connect the RF harness horn switch wires and it uses the the RF relay to operate the horn. Simple.

Many though use the momentary switch for headlight low and high beam, including sometimes a flash to pass option. That's where it gets a little more complicated. The standard RF wiring harness uses a simple dash switch for low and high beam switching and no option for flash to pass. In order for the headlight low/high beam functions to use the RT pushbutton, it's necessary to add relays. RT includes several wiring diagrams to show how this can be wired. But it's an option many prefer with or without the RT turn signal assembly.

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Last edited by edwardb; 05-21-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you EdwardB. I guess it's the relay needed due to using it for flash to pass and / or high beam that invokes the extra relays... I'm horn so good to know that for sure... thx again....


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