Play in wheel bearings? - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

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  • 1 Post By Avalanche325
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Play in wheel bearings?

Hi all,

Now that I've mounted tires to rims and installed the completed wheels on the car, I notice what appears to be play in the wheel bearings. That is to say, when I shove on the top and bottom of each wheel, the rim moves ever so slightly. The fronts are worse than the rear, but all four wheels seem to move.

The front components are the standard MKIV spindles and hubs F5 provides as part of the complete kit. These hubs slid smoothly onto the spindle with a moderate shove to overcome the initial resistance.

The rear components are Ford Racing (M-5970-A) Steering Knuckles and Ford Racing M-1109-A Independent Rear Suspension Hubs provided by Mike Forte when I bought his Thuderbird IRS package. These hubs had to be pressed onto the spindles.

I have NOT torqued the lug nuts, but they are as tight as I'm going to get them without putting the wheels on the ground.

I HAVE torqued the one-time bolt that secures the hubs to the spindles.

My plan is to re-torque the one-time bolts to see if that makes the play go away, but I'm not confident this will cure the problem. So...

Anybody else notice play in their wheels? If so, what did you do to fix it?


John


MK IV Roadster #8631
Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phileas_fogg View Post

I have NOT torqued the lug nuts, but they are as tight as I'm going to get them without putting the wheels on the ground.
You need to torque the lug nuts before you can make a real judgement. If you don't want to put the car on the ground, get someone to hit the brakes for you while you do it. Also, is everything in the suspension torqued? There will be a little movement, no matter what.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 11:08 AM
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I was at John's yesterday. At the front, as he moved the tire/wheel by gripping top and bottom, I could feel the rotor move slightly in relation to the caliper. Also there was a definite click,click feel to the movement. It felt exactly like Fox wheel bearings that need another 1/4 turn on the nut. At the rear, we could see the wheel move, but there was no click,click. That could be the rubber bushings in the knuckle because I wasn't able to find an individual spot where something moved in relation to something stationary.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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I torqued the lug nuts today, and the click, click is still present in the front.

I'm chalking the rear movement up to the flex in the rubber bushings.

My next step is to rent the big boy torque wrench again, and double check the one-time nuts front and rear. I'll double check the suspension torques as well.


John

EDIT: The Wilwood brake rotor is held in place by being sandwiched between the hub and the wheel. Is it possible the rotor is moving somehow?

MK IV Roadster #8631
Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

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Last edited by phileas_fogg; 04-19-2017 at 02:26 PM.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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I re-torqued the one-time nuts; no change. I still have the click, click up front.

I also tried to wiggle the rotor from behind the wheel (with the lug nuts torqued). There's no movement there at all.

So now I'm stumped. Anybody got any ideas?


John

MK IV Roadster #8631
Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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I used a dial indicator to measure the amount of "play." I've got 0.030-0.040" at the edge of the rim just before the lip. The rim is 18" lip to lip. Assuming a 2" diameter bearing, that means I've got 1/9 of the measured play, or ~0.004". Does this seem excessive?

I measured two ways. First, base was secured to frame with indicator tip at upper rim:



Second, base was on floor with indicator tip at lower rim:




John

MK IV Roadster #8631
Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

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Last edited by phileas_fogg; 04-21-2017 at 05:53 PM.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 04:24 PM
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Yes, it's excessive. You will also have inconsistent brake pedal height due to rotor spacing out the pads.

I changed the FFR bearing from the kit after two track days. The first day, all the grease leaked out. The second day, the bearings where loose...
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 04:26 PM
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Totem what did you replace with?

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, please share!

MK IV Roadster #8631
Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 09:32 PM
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Check the bolts on the upper control arms. Mine had come loose and the wheel moved just like bearing slop.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
Totem what did you replace with?
MOOG 513115. Any good quality hub/bearing will work. Note that I had to recenter the Willwood galiper offset vs the rotor by one shim.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 07:06 PM
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Cool, that is what I just bought. I have nearly all I need to do an FFR spindle upgrade. I got mine at AZ. If anyone wants them be sure to check the box as the generic AZ part is the same number but is not a Moog.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 07:20 PM
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I had a similar issue on a customer car with Wilwoods. It turned out the the chamfer on the back of the rotors was not enough to accommodate the studs in the spindle and the rotor was not sitting flush to the hub. Check it out before you go spending a bunch of money on something that may not solve your problem.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-04-2017, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Can someone confirm for me the part number for the front one-time axle nuts?

Thanks,


John

MK IV Roadster #8631
Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-04-2017, 08:12 PM
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I got mine from Late Model Restoration, a Mustang parts house. Their number is LRS-3477A. On the other side of the bag is a number printed right on the bag 615-098.1. Below that is M24-2.0 X 36MM. Crap, below that is Made in CHina. Jeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz. I think I will go to a Ford dealer. BTW on the LMR label is says the application is 94-14 Mustang front hub.
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